Damnit
I mean, god damnit. How stupid can our Congress get? I can't believe that this bullshit is even being proposed when all the other legislation is broken and they can't even agree on where to piss. Jesus. Overboard with these fools.
The US has National Historical Parks in 26 states, Guam, and the US Virgin Islands, but its next such park could be located as far from US shores as any explorer has ever traveled – namely, the Moon. On Monday, Representatives Donna Edwards (D-MD) and Eddie Bernice Johnson (D-TX) – both members of the House Science, Space, and …
True. The current congress is pretty worthless, but I don't think this bill was written for anything more than political posturing. Based on the press that the lunar park has gotten, its intent was probably to drum up support for space exploration and to bring to light the lack of funding for NASA. The humorous side effect is that if for some reason this bill did actually pass, they'd most likely have to allocate funding for making it a reality.
Until the USA has the capability (not just technical, but political will and money) of going back to the Moon and installing a velvet rope and posting notices, then maybe they stop the empty rhetoric.
If they take too much time to reinstall their mojo, they might find a nice Chinese lady with her own fence around the Apollo 11 site and selling admission tickets.
>...
I think it would be hilarious if the Chinese went up there and just hucked everything they found into space and denied they found anything there.
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Ah, but then the Chinese would be the only people who would really know if the moon landings were fake.
Can't have that. But you saw the bit about accepting donations; this will open a whole cool scenario.
Half the world pays for the Americans to go 'back' to the moon. With a few suitcase nukes. Which will wipe the 'landing sites' completely. This will then be a direct attack on the United States and Celestial Bodies of America as well as a world heritage site, by some terrorists from [insert flavour of the day here]. The United States Space Navy will see it as their duty to protect this new 'ground zero memorial' and will gallantly put garrisons of space marines there, claiming these sites as USCBA territory.
Yay!
N.B. I don't actually believe that the landings were a fake. But quite a lot of people do.
P.S. If you read this, Mr. Verhoeven and Mr. Levinson, we should talk about the rights; and it'll be OK if we call the 'space marines' something else to gag the nitwits of Games Workshop. Can we also try for Emma Watson in some cool role?
Images have been made of the Apollo landing sites, not just by the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO, from NASA, so "suspect"), but by the Chinese Chang'e-2 probe (1.3m resolution, so good enough). Some of the LRO images show the LEM base, its shadow, and tracks from astronauts and rovers.
The USA is signatory to the Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies (1967), which among other things places all celestial bodies and their orbits under international law, and prohibits any state from laying claim to any celestial body or part thereof. So technically the United States is in violation of this treaty by assigning parts of the moon as 'National' Park space.
In reality, however, this treaty, like any other treaty, law, right or constitutional principle, is only as good as the ability of its proponents to enforce it. Once again, the only absolute right, in space or on earth, is the right of might, whether we like it or not. Who has the guns makes the rules.
I know I cop a swath of downvotes every time I say this, but no amount of downvoting can change this simple fact, perhaps most succinctly expressed by Napoleon's famous quote, "Le bon Dieu est toujours du côté des gros bataillons!"
Actually, I think the relevant part of the treaty is Article VI, which says: "the activities of non-governmental entities in outer space ... shall require authorization and continuing supervision by the appropriate State Party to the Treaty".
So if you're based in America, any foray you make into outer space (including the Moon) is subject to US law. Likewise if you're based in, say, France, then it's subject to French law.
What this measure would do, if passed, would mean that any US-based operator that landed on the Moon and then interfered with these sites could get into trouble. That's all it means. In principle it would have no effect on operators based in other countries, although in practice it would be a brave astronaut who put that to the test...
"So if you're based in America, any foray you make into outer space (including the Moon) is subject to US law. Likewise if you're based in, say, France, then it's subject to French law."
Interesting, but which part of the US? Can someone say, marry 2 women on the moon? 2 of their sisters even? While smoking a big fat spliff? Maybe only for medicinal purposes? How old would they have to be to be able to drink at their wedding? To have sex? Would they be arrested for sodomy on a particular part of the moon and not others? Would certain parts of the moon be so pig ignorant that it didn't exist at all seeing as it's quite obviously several thousand years old?
Joking aside, I suppose they mean federal law as opposed to state law as the above would be. Oh well, I had fun anyway.
Oh, I missed one, could they build a casino on the moon?
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"The USA is signatory to the Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies (1967), which among other things places all celestial bodies and their orbits under international law, and prohibits any state from laying claim to any celestial body or part thereof. So technically the United States is in violation of this treaty by assigning parts of the moon as 'National' Park space."
True. This is a real cold war relic.
At some point property rights will need to be worked out for bodies off Earth.
An interesting case would be if someone finds a really valuable asteroid. Salvage? No, because no one can own anything of "outer space."
ElReg readers are on whole pretty good at understanding the difference between the world as we would like it to be and how it is.
'An interesting case would be if someone finds a really valuable asteroid. Salvage? No, because no one can own anything of "outer space."'
Is that true, it says no state can claim part of a celestial body, it doesn't as far as I know say an individual or indeed company can't. It may also mean the Queen could lay claim to the moon which would make it British territory as part of the Crown Estates, but that's probably cheating.
"The USA is signatory to the Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies (1967)"
But then the US hasn't ratified or signed the Agreement Governing the Activities of States on the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies. (15 nations have ratified, 4 have signed but not ratified).
Anyway, maybe Dennis Hope has already sold these plots via his website, in which case they might need a compulsory purchase order first :)
"Since when is the moon part of the territory of the USA?"
Well, we DID plant a flag there (as opposed to just landing one there, which the USA also did!). In fact we planted 6 flags there.
Of course, being territories, they might want to be independent, you never know. They might not like the current "imperial rule" (not that we can do anything about it!).
Maybe there is a future in harvesting green cheese (aka Helium 3).
Given the tendency of the US government to claim anything they have any remote connection to as "theirs" since WWII, I'm not surprised.
What I really wonder is why the real astronauts who risked life and limb (et.al. it took a huge team to pull it off...) to get there aren't revolting against the Kindergarden Puppies who try and play with their achievements and score some pinkie points nowadays.
The ancient rule is "you have what you can keep". The US is rapidly losing just about everything outside their own territory, and they claim bits of the MOON?!! Talk about conceited ostrichism...
Actually, for a birthday when I was about 9 or 10 I was given a ‘Lunar deed’ by my dad, apparently giving me legal ownership of certain acre of the moon, I may have to find this and either hope its smack bang in the middle of the bit the Americans want, or at least include it in my will, for when the rest of the world starts buying up the surface!
I will do them a cheap deal, think about it NASA, what’s an extra $1Billion on top of the budget for this anyway?
The USA has been gone long enough to have lost all rights to try and 'protect' anything up there, while I am sure most nations will respect the sites, the arrogance of the USA is undeniable in this, they are not world police, and certainly not the solar systems police...
Now if the UN decided to give the sites protected status, that is a different matter...
"Now if the UN decided to give the sites protected status, that is a different matter..."
Maybe they could be voted UNESCO (Out of this) World Heritage Sites
That would make a lot of sense (and is not at odds with the National Park idea), as these sites are a monument to one of mankind's greatest achievements.
Oh my, you caught me out. I am sure everyone is now suitably impressed by your superior scientific expertise. I'm so sorry.
Unless, of course, you just wanted to explain my sarcastic comment to the ElReg readership, who might be slightly miffed by the level of knowledge that you credit them with, in an altruistically motivated, misguided attempt to make even them understand the joke.
Then I'm not sorry but rather miffed too; I can wreck my jokes all by myself if I feel the need for it, thank you very much.
"So, I wonder if they will take my National Park Pass to visit there..."
No, they will sell you an enhanced pass though that will. The caveat is that the pass must be placed securely on the windshield. I don't know how your car will run in space though unless it is electric. Oh, be sure to keep the ventilation system off; lunar dust is not nice. Be sure to get the car washed before returning too.
...and then someone point out to Congress that National Parks are supposed to have Rangers to make sure nothing bad happens at (or to) the National Parks and force them to send someone up there to take up the position.
Quotes:
"National Park Service Rangers are among the uniformed employees charged with protecting and preserving areas set aside in the National Park System by the United States Congress and/or the President of the United States." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Park_Service_Ranger)
"Rangers were royal officials employed to "range" through the countryside providing law and order (often against poaching). Their duties were originally confined to seeing that the Forest Law was enforced in the outlands, or purlieus, of the royal forests. Their duties corresponded in some respects with that of a mounted Forester.[1]" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park_ranger)
Yeah, I know - but someone with better access to US paperwork can probably trace them back to source material.