back to article The Three Amigos offer sanctuary to cornered NSA leaker Snowden

NSA contractor-turned-surveillance-whistleblower Edward Snowden has been offered asylum in three Latin American countries. Support for Snowden among a coalition of left-leaning governments in Latin America has hardened after a high-profile incident last week when an aircraft carrying Bolivian President Evo Morales was obliged to …

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Three Amigos

Nicaragua, Venezuela and Bolivia ...... isn't it a bit strange how these three countries who don't have a great record on human rights want to help out.

If I was Snowden I would grown a pair and go back to the states. Let courts with some semblance of independence sort out if his actions were in the public interest.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Three Amigos

The "don't have a great record on human rights" applies to *all* parties in the argument. And no I, for one, wouldn't be going anywhere near the gun-toting, torture-condoning, bulk-spying, extraordinarily rendering, paranoid "states"

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Big Brother

Re: Three Amigos

"isn't it a bit strange how these three countries who don't have a great record on human rights want to help out." -- Not really, these are the very same Countries the USA has been abusing for years, I would call it a kick in the nuts for the USA.

An example, not related to the Countries named above, but, demonstrates the level of respect America has for it's Southern Neighbours:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment#Non-consensual_experiments_in_Guatemala

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Three Amigos

Ok, two points: It wasn't just done to Guatemalans, it was done to Black African US Citizens as well, in Guatemala it was done with the knowledge and cooperation of at least some government. Also, it was 40 years ago, this doesn't change the fact that it's a shameful episode in US history, but you seem to suggest that this sort of thing is still going on.

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Re: Three Amigos

"courts with some semblance of independence"

Do you really believe that? If you do I've got this bridge for sale, only one cafeul owner...

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Stop

Re: Three Amigos

Are you seriously trying to suggest that the Judicial independence of Nicaragua, Venezuela and Bolivia, is better than the United States?

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Re: Three Amigos

The USA's treatment of Manning has been despicable. Bolivia et al. might not have great human rights records, but they don't have the breathtaking hypocrisy of the USA presenting itself as the great beacon of justice and integrity and then merrily stomping on due process, human rights, and international commitments not to torture. Any whistleblower would have to be nuts to volunteer to put himself into the hands of the Americans.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: seriously trying to suggest that ...

I stated that they are *all* guilty of breaches of human rights, and your blind "USA is the best" rhetoric is just that ... there is no better, worst clarification. Obviously I know which of those countries I'd rather be in

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Re: Three Amigos

What has been depictable? Manning is a traitor that knowingly endangered his fellow soldiers. He was caught, he is in a military prison and he gets a trial. If he had done the same in one of the "oh so great" socialist dictatorship that some praise here he would most likely have been "shot trying to escape" or simply vanished

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Re: Three Amigos

Forget Manning, how about the illegal treatment of prisoners of war. The US found time after 9/11 to pass laws allowing them to do whatever the fuck they want to anyone in the name of counter terrorism, but they can't find time in the 12 years to charge them, or even clarify if they are enemy combatants (and therefore now PoWs) or not.

The land that gave us the bill of rights is denying to it's prisoners the human rights that even the Nazis allowed their PoWs. The degree of civilisation in a society is revealed by entering its prisons.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Manning is a traitor blah blah blah

Obviously informing the world that some attack helicopter goes in to kill civilians endangers nobody, other than the perpetrators of said crime. Give him a medal for that.

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Re: Three Amigos

>What has been depictable?

That they admitted torture and offered to knock 117 days off his sentence because of it?

>Manning is a traitor

Traitor / Patriot - so like freedom fighter / terrorist

> knowingly endangered his fellow soldiers

By leaking diplomatic cables that suggested the revealed Putin was the real power behind the Russian president, Isreal doesn't really like the Palestinians and is suspicious about Iran's peaceful nuclear energy, and that some people in Pakistan's security service might be unhappy about the US continaully bombing them?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Three Amigos

isn't it a bit strange how ALL these countries who DO have a great record on human rights don't want to help out.

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Happy

Re: Three Amigos

"If I was Snowden I would grown a pair and go back to the states. Let courts with some semblance of independence sort out if his actions were in the public interest."

Still hoping for a contract when they try and revive the UK Identity Cards scheme, eh Titus?

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Meh

Re: Three Amigos

"Ok, two points: It wasn't just done to Guatemalans, it was done to Black African US Citizens as well, in Guatemala it was done with the knowledge and cooperation of at least some government. Also, it was 40 years ago, this doesn't change the fact that it's a shameful episode in US history"

True.

"but you seem to suggest that this sort of thing is still going on."

And that's why you, Mr AC haven't been upvoted. People who know enough history are very wary of assuming it isn't.

US history suggests that there's always some medical situation where "We have to know the consequences" trumps little things like informed consent.

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Black Helicopters

Re: Three Amigos

"don't have a great record on human rights"

Quick! Name a nation-state that does have a great record on human rights!

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Unhappy

Re: Three Amigos

"By leaking diplomatic cables that suggested the revealed Putin was the real power behind the Russian president, Isreal doesn't really like the Palestinians and is suspicious about Iran's peaceful nuclear energy, and that some people in Pakistan's security service might be unhappy about the US continaully bombing them?"

His real crime is far worse than that. It includes a)Showing military staff have access to diplomatic service messages b)That access can be had down to the rank of PFC and c) Walking out of a USMC base with a Lady Gaga CD and not being roundly stomped.

In short his crime (like Gary McKinnon) is the most heinous own a govt employee can commit.

Making their government look STUPID

BTW anyone see the irony in this? USG gov hates people know it spies on them and hates what it says being leaked as well?

After all Uncle Sam, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. Right?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Three Amigos

Also, it was 40 years ago, this doesn't change the fact that it's a shameful episode in US history, but you seem to suggest that this sort of thing is still going on.

Not so very long ago everyone believed the NSA wasn't slurping everyones data.

Not so very long ago everyone thought the laws in western countries could protect the citizens of those countries from unwarranted, and immoral intrusion from their intelligence agencies.

Not so very long ago The American Congress believed the NSA wasn't listening in to, and reading the private conversations of Americans.

Given how little the American Intelligance Agencies are willing for you to know.

Given the history of combatative actions carried out by those Agencies.

What makes you think they're not still doing things like that?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Three Amigos

Countries with great human rights records just have better access to the statisticians cooking those books.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Three Amigos

"Quick! Name a nation-state that does have a great record on human rights!"

Bhutan.

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Re: Three Amigos

Sad mess isn't it. People in the US are in shock at how much they've been lied to by the Gov. Now a few who have clued in that they all have had the Gov steal their inalienable rights are starting to fight back for them. Trouble is US Gov has now reached optimum corruption in a marriage with the the worlds most powerful in Oil and Banking so it's not going to get fixed without a mess along the way. In the mean time the US Gov is out of the populations control.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Three Amigos

I'm not up enough on US history to know, can you cite some examples?

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Re: Tuskegee syphilis experiment

And this same government expects us to trust their "health care reform"?

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Meh

Re: Three Amigos

Bhutan ? we have some refugees here, in South Oz

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Re: Three Amigos

"And that's why you, Mr AC haven't been upvoted. People who know enough history are very wary of assuming it isn't.

US history suggests that there's always some medical situation where "We have to know the consequences" trumps little things like informed consent."

I think you need to re-phrase your comment to: "People who cherry-pick history to support their stupid prejudices are very wary of...". By your logic, I suppose we should also assume that Spain is still plundering gold from Latin American and Germany is still using Jews as human guinea pigs, but only now have somehow figured out a way to keep these remarkably secret? I'm waiting for some more cherry-picking which will clearly demonstrate why skeletons in US history are still relevant while those of other countries are not. Of course, you could also just stick to criticizing things the US is doing wrong in the contemporary real world rather than creating a stupid fantasy world.

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Stop

Re: Manning is a traitor blah blah blah @AC

Obviously informing the world that some attack helicopter goes in to kill civilians endangers nobody, other than the perpetrators of said crime. Give him a medal for that.

The video that when it hasn't been redacted shows a bunch of folks attempting to fire an RPG at the Helicopter you mean?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Manning is a traitor blah blah blah

You do realise that the "collateral murder" video is edited, not only is it edited, but it's editorialised, with comments telling you what the editor of the video believes to be going on.

Wikileaks claim not to do journalism, but the editing of this video and editorialising of it is just that. Wikileaks serves no purpose if it doesn't display the whole leak and nothing but the leak, with redactions only to protect the innocent.

Go and find the un-edited version, you'll be shocked as to what Wikileaks removed.

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Re: Three Amigos

Quick! Name a nation-state that does have a great record on human rights!

Norway and Sweden seem to be ranked highest.

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Re: Three Amigos

Norway and Sweden seem to be ranked highest.

yet astonishingly, at least one of them is still considered a worse destination for a certain alleged lady botherer currently camped out on ecuador's sofa. Go figure.

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Or hes currently on an east bound Freighter sailing over the Pacific. Ya can't be forced to land for inspection if your not in their Airspace. And, what are the US gonna do? Stop every Boat in the Pacific to look for this Guy?

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Would you really put it past them to do that?

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Muchas gracias

They may have a poor human rights record, but is the USA really that much better??

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Muchas gracias

All you Americans out there.

See this comment... see the number upvotes it has.

You can blame Snowden for that all you want, but you'll be denying reality.

His actions were only a reaction to your intelligence agencies activities.

Such activities are why even the citizens of your allies are starting to react against you.

And no it wouldn't have all been alright if he'd just kept it a secret...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Muchas gracias

Yeah, upvotes on an Internet forum regularly a good barometer of truth and the national mood.

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@ AC 22:21

Funny, I have the suspicion that if he'd been downvoted instead you'd be saying the exact opposite.

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Facepalm

Re: Muchas gracias

Of course the Latin American countries have poor human rights records! Who installed the puppet governments that gave them those poor human rights records?

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WTF?

Re: The only good hacker...

Spoken like a fearless and patriotic ........... AC

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Re: The only good hacker...

How is Assange a traitor? Last I heard he's an Australian citizen, not a US one.

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Stop

Re: The only good hacker...

He's not a hacker or traitor, he's a Patriot: a person who vigorously supports their country and s prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.

The US Constitution is what defines the USA, not borders on a map or the various wars on nouns, you simply cannot be an American patriot and ignore the constitution being shredded by the very people sworn to uphold it.

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Happy

Re: The only good hacker...

"How is Assange a traitor? Last I heard he's an Australian citizen, not a US one."

A fact even known to viewers of Saturday Night Live (and John Haders writing team).

AC is probably a)American b)Fox "News" viewer.

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Re: The only good hacker...

All the corrupt leaders in the US Gov are probably thinking dead men don't talk. Killing Snowden only helps cover up the massive US Gov corruption.

I would rather he not be killed and have all the corruption revealed so it can be cleaned up. The people in the US need to know so they can at least attempt to regain some control over the Gov and clean it up if that's still possible. Also all the US allies and other countries that have been bitten by this US Gov also need to know what's going on. They deserve that, it's the only respectful thing to do.

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Unhappy

Re: The only good hacker...

here, let me help you to post better. Wrong icon, troll is the one you need. AC lacks credibility. Makes you read like an inexperienced teenager.

BTW, I take it you include the hackers used by the USSA, or was it the USA to intrude frequently and often on their own citizens. It is a given everyone else is open season as USSA law makes it clear nonyanks have no rights.The saddest part of how far the US has fallen from its founders ideals is the fact Snowden took flight thru China and Russia. The world has changed.

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Re: The only good hacker...

How is Assange a traitor? Last I heard he's an Australian citizen, not a US one.

And one on the run for allegations of rape, last I heard ......

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Anonymous Coward

Martin Short cousin

Martin Short's (of 3 Amigo's fame) first cousin is Clare Short.

Facto!!

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WTF?

Re: Martin Short cousin

Martin Short's (of 3 Amigo's fame) first cousin is Clare Short.

Jesus Fucking Christ, this is actually true!

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Anonymous Coward

Dump all the documents

He should dump all the documents, not just a few redacted version, everything. What does he have to lose at this point? Wikileaks, PasteBin, etc, plenty of places to put them. They're going to call him a traitor and lock him up forever at the first chance.

Other leakers are still coming forward, the NYT has an article from an unidentified ex NSA man explaining how the NSA have created a secret parallel system of law, created by the FISA court expanding its remit to compare with the Supreme Court.

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/4/how_the_pentagon_papers_came_to

This is a video about the release of the Pentagon papers (this same thing in 1970s), how they came to be leaked by a contractor, how a brave politician found a way to read the complete papers into public record, making them legally public, how even then Nixon tried to bully newspapers to prevent them printing them.

It was the *complete* Pentagon papers. It didn't do the US harm, it woke them up before it was too late.

Nixon was a crook and the Pentagon papers revealed how fake the Vietnam war was. The people involved in the leak, then vilified as traitors, today are universally viewed as heroes.

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Anonymous Coward

From Russia with Love

As if his asylum worries weren't enough, Snowden received an unsolicited marriage proposal from former spy Anna Chapman last week.

Hell yes!

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