Feeds

back to article US public hate Snowden - but sexpot spy Anna Chapman LOVES him

The American public is turning against NSA leaker Edward Snowden, with increasing numbers of people now believing he was wrong to reveal details of secret US government surveillance, a survey has found. But you shouldn't feel too sad for the geeky whistleblower, because sexpot Russian spy Anna Chapman has said she would happily …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.

Page:

Silver badge

Dear Mr Snowden

The people you are trying to enlighten are fickle and mostly stupid. But you got the debate started..

96
2
Silver badge
FAIL

Re: Dear Mr Snowden

Indeed. How can you be angry at his antics and still be against what the NSA are doing? How the f*ck do you retarded rednecks expect to been shocked out of your complacency without him?

Or is it just because he's hiding out with the Russkis?

45
3
Anonymous Coward

Re: Dear Mr Snowden

I'm not so sure that it is primarily fickle and mostly stupid. I think to a considerable degree it is fear. The relentless propaganda about the threats to the American Way of Life, the belief that foreigners are trying to weaken the US and remove its "freedoms", and the lack of most of the social security nets we take for granted in Europe - these are all designed to make people fearful and believe that they need Big Brother to protect them. There's a book about it, I think.

People, to use the term loosely, are trying to do the same to us Brits, whether it's Melamine in the Dily Mile or the EDL. But we have a long tradition of disbelieving our Government that started roughly with, I think, the Newcastle Administration, and our organs of Government - SIS, the Met, the MOD, the Home Office, you name it - seem to put plenty of effort into ensuring we continue to do so.

18
0
Silver badge

Re: Dear Mr Snowden

By ensuring the average American knows of nothing outside of the USA, other than they are trying to destroy the USA, the fearful populace allow all this sort of thing. They are so scared of everyone else, they believe their government are wonderful, can do no wrong and aren't actually causing a lot of the problem themselves. I include most American politicians in the above as well.

Should the US populace ever understand anything about countries and politics beyond their borders (other than they're trying to kill us), this whole charade will end.

It comes to something when you begin thinking the anti-government rednecks and mountain boys are probably the more enlightened Americans and understand the situation better than the majority. At least they don't believe all the rubbish spouted and blindly support anything the USA does.

24
3
Ru

Re: Dear Mr Snowden

Now the Snowden haters are in the ascendancy, with 43 percent of Americans saying they have an unfavourable view of the whistleblower, and 36 percent in favour.

I wonder how the survey went.

"Do you you love freedom, apple pie and the American dream and support those who protect it? Or do you hate democracy and want nothing more than this great country to be laid waste by suicide bombers and godless communists?"

53
2
Bronze badge

Re: Dear Mr Snowden

"Or is it just because he's hiding out with the Russkis?"

Not quite. It's not _just_ the Russkies. It's also that the Bolivians, Nicaraguans, and Venezuelans, among others, are using him to produce Yet More anti-American propaganda. A _lot_ of people still recall that the current prez of Venezuela, for example, when still the veep, accused the CIA of 'infecting' the previous prez with the cancer which killed him, <http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/05/17196733-venezuela-vp-chavezs-cancer-was-an-attack-by-his-enemies?lite> and that the previous prez accused the USN of generating earthquakes in Haiti. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9QtZkT8OBQ> The current prez of Nicaragua hasn't said anything quite that over the top, but he's been saying a lot of stuff for a long time. Ditto the Bolivians. The Great American Public looks at that, and figures that if _they_ are supporting Snowden, then he's a very bad boy.

In addition, past whistleblowers, such as Daniel Ellsberg and even Bradley Manning, ran their mouths... and stayed to face the music. Snowden ran his mouth and bugged out for China, and then Russia. This makes him look bad.

And, one last thing: a lot of the public, including a large subset of those who think that he was correct to disclose PRISM _and_ to bug out, think that he's an idiot for not taking proper evasive action _prior_ to running his mouth. It's not just the right wing which has problems with him.

2
21
Silver badge
Stop

Re: Dear Mr Snowden

"The people you are trying to enlighten are fickle and mostly stupid."

Of course you're now also assuming that these numbers are actually correct and that the right conclusions have been drawn.

It wouldn't be the first time that the government tries tactics like "divide and conquer" to try and bring someone into discredit.

Make people believe that "many people" don't agree with the hero and all of a sudden you'll have people disliking him/her. Not because they think that he did the wrong thing. But if so many people think bad of him then surely something must be afoul?

Too bad many people don't seem capable to look beyond the source of such information.

18
1
h3
Bronze badge

Re: Dear Mr Snowden

Anna Chapman is definitely not stupid. If he did marry her he would be able to do what the hell he liked and then Kremlin wouldn't do anything about it.

It is the obvious thing to do. (You can never truly know but it is fair to say she truly hates (In a way that people who are not driven never really do) both America and Britain.(Britain for getting rid of her British Passport)).

Russia is the safest place for him still.

2
1
Anonymous Coward

Re: Dear Mr Snowden

By far the biggest threat to the American way of life, middle class comfort, is corporate greed and government complicity.

23
1
Silver badge
Big Brother

Re: Dear Mr Snowden

In addition, past whistleblowers, such as Daniel Ellsberg and even Bradley Manning, ran their mouths... and stayed to face the music. Snowden ran his mouth and bugged out for China, and then Russia. This makes him look bad.

Yes, and even back then it was not sad at all:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ellsberg#Trial_and_mistrial

I would not call the shit coming down on people nowadays "facing the music". Military detention, torture, "accidents" and whatnot? I can quite understand that one does not want to stay in GermanyUSA and may want to ask for some hospitality in countries that are not exactly beacons of liberalism but at least have the courage to show the US some inverse V sign.

20
1
Bronze badge

Re: Dear Mr Snowden

"The people you are trying to enlighten are fickle and mostly stupid."

Ah. I wondered why he had published in a British newspaper.

3
18

Suspect pollster

It's a bit hard to enlighten when an article uses a suspect pollster:

"Is it worth it to point out yougov's political affiliations - for instance to the Murdoch press, and its directors who are conservative supporters? Wikidea 15:08, 9 April 2010 (UTC)" --Talk Page, YouGov, Wikipedia.

The main page transparently promotes youGov's supposed 'accuracy' by selecting those predictions that are...accurate. Of course, it works for psychics, why not pollsters?

7
3
Anonymous Coward

@ribosome

It is becoming that the US 'freedoms' are principally for corporations and the state to what whatever they like, and in particular keeping a eye on whatever the rabble^H population are up to. With so many vague and all-encompassing crimes around they can always find a troublemaker guilty of something.

11
1

This post has been deleted by its author

Silver badge

Re: Dear Mr Snowden

@James O'Shea.

I guess the 'average' American hasn't asked why these other countries are spouting all this stuff about them? Could it be something to do with the constant American interference in their countries? Could it be to do with the Americans supporting 'rebel' groups etc.? Could it be to do with the Americans supporting death squads?

When they start asking these questions and getting the right answers, perhaps the 'average' American will start to understand why so many people hate them......

24
1
Gold badge
Thumb Up

Re: Dear Mr Snowden

""Do you you love freedom, apple pie and the American dream and support those who protect it? Or do you hate democracy and want nothing more than this great country to be laid waste by suicide bombers and godless communists?""

Excellent point.

Ask the "right" (or in some cases very right) question and you get the right answer.

I suspect it's actually very difficult to devise a question on a subject that actually has no effect on the choice of the respondent.

Thumbs up for the question, not the buffoons who seem to want liberty and security at the same time.

5
0

Re: Suspect pollster

I've been talking to all kinds of Americans old and young and most of them that have heard of Snowden are fully behind him. I find it's the older people that aren't on the internet that are the uninformed or misinformed. I was talking to a 76 year old barber and when I told him the extent of the NSA's spying he was shocked/surprised. So this poll is bullcrap at best or they are calling people that rely totally on network news.

8
0
(Written by Reg staff)

Re: Suspect pollster

Not only are you citing a Wikipedia talk page, you've not even got the supposed bias right. Peter Kellner is a Labour Party member and husband of Catherine Ashton, a senior EU apparatchik.

4
3
JLV
Bronze badge

Re: Dear Mr Snowden

>Not quite. It's not _just_ the Russkies.

To be honest, I felt bad for Snowden that he has had to seek asylum from the likes of these bozos.

But that's more an indictment of where the rest of our Western democracies are standing at, innit?

For all the pious bleating emanating from our shocked, shocked, governments, it would seem that they want to run their own intel gathering operations as well.

Myself, I think that some form of snooping is likely necessary to limit terrorism or make it less easy to pull off in the short term. We are democracies, so not everyone will agree, so put it on the political table. Myself, I would definitely like it to be:

- more transparent in what is being done in general, though not necessarily on the particulars of individual investigations. If that means some terrorist acts will not be averted in order that we know how we are being spied on, that's a risk I am willing to take with my life.

- requiring periodic extension and subject to sunset clauses (i.e. if the world is better in 10 yrs, snoops go away)

- only used in the context of terrorism - not tax evasion, drug dealings, pedos and whatever else - "normal" laws should be used for those crimes.

- last but not least, judicial warrants should be required for all actual access and analysis of recorded data. till then: sealed away. Combine warrants with limitation to terrorism only and I could live with it.

Snowden is a genuine hero for basically throwing away his life to allow to decide how much intrusion we are willing to put up with. And I totally don't buy the "now the terrs know about it we are in danger" crap. We were the only idiots left in the dark, the bad guys probably operated on the premise of compromised telecoms already. And even if they did not, and will now adapt, that's a risk I am OK with - the transparency tradeoff is worth it, to me.

8
0
Anonymous Coward

Questions

It's actually easy to set up:

q1: How do you feel about what Ed Snowden has done:

a1: No opinion

a2: I don't know who that is

a3: strongly negative

a4: strongly positive

a5: somewhat positive

a6: somewhat negative

Of course, that means the pollster cannot push whatever agenda they want to push, and might get actual answers.

1
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: Dear Mr Snowden

"Now the Snowden haters are in the ascendancy, with 43 percent of Americans saying they have an unfavourable view of the whistleblower, and 36 percent in favour."

It's always the way. People want peace, love and harmony. They want libertarianism, open government and everyone to be open with each other. They only start to turn against people who give it to them when they see their children's ear, nose and throat scattered with the rest of their body parts over a couple of hundred metre area of central London.

What can I say, people are hypocrites. They eat Black pudding too, some of them.

0
3
Anonymous Coward

Re: Suspect pollster

Lots of people feel sorry for the complete genocide of the red Indians too, but they only have that ability, because their ancestors were better at killing them, than they were at killing back

2
0
Bronze badge

Re: Dear Mr Snowden

Errmm... the Nicaraguans and the Bolivians _were_ the 'rebel' groups. In the case of Nicaragua, the boys currently in charge had been the 'rebel groups' for 50-60 years, and they most definitely did NOT have American support. Indeed, the USMC invented dive bombing in Nicaragua while carrying out operations agains the present lots' grandfathers. Somewhat later there were the anti-rebel rebels, the Contras, in Nicaragua, and twits like the assorted anti-Castro idiots, but even the CIA was (mostly) smart enough to stay out of direct involvement. (Indirect involvement, now that's a different story.)

The fact still remains, and will remain no matter how many downvotes I get, that the Great American Public has a look at who Snowden's friends are, and draw conclusions from that. This is the heart of his problem: the only people who are willing to help him are so willing not because of what he did, but because they feel that this is a good way to annoy the US. And, frankly, anyone who takes seriously the idea that the USN has an earthquake machine and that they tested it on _Haiti_ of all places is completely insane. If I've got a an earthquake machine and I want to test it, I'd go a little further up the Greater Antilles and light up Cuba. Or I'd go south and see what happens to Caracas. That the Venezuelans actually spewed that crap shows where they're coming from... and says all that need be said about those who support them ,and who they support.

And, frankly, none of your questions makes the least difference. it does not matter _why_ Venezuela, et al, hates the US. It merely matters that they do... and that they are well known to do so. And that it is blindingly obvious why they're supporting Snowden. And this reflects badly on Snownden, so far as the public is concerned.

1
12
Anonymous Coward

Re: Suspect pollster

The Labour Party policy is to the right of Thatcher, but they are 'left wing' because they have 'labour' in their name?

3
0
Silver badge
Mushroom

Re: Dear Mr Snowden

Actually, most of the Central and South American countries have been directly or indirectly fucked upon by the CIA. Pinochet was indirectly supported by the CIA to take over the democratic government in Chile. The CIA helped a lot of tyrant dictatorships in the region, including the secret network they had to kill dissidents who managed to flee to non-tyrant countries. Then there's Nicaragua, El Salvador ... get the idea? The one country which has managed to avoid CIA-backed bloody dictatorships in the 20th Century has been Mexico... and even then, it wasn't because the US didn't try to. A certain General was called upon by er... US agents after the 1968 Tlatelolco massacre, offering support in pulling off a coup against the government, seizing the opportunity as it had ordered a massacre against the civilian population. Said general declined the offer, as he thought it was worse to do that than to keep with the not-so-evil Mexican Government.

So yes, those governments are offering Snowden asylum as a 'fuck you' to the US ... but in this case, the US earned said disrespect.

5
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: Dear Mr Snowden

Godwin? Though I'll have to venture that life under Hitler may have been better than under the current US administration.

1
2
Silver badge
FAIL

Re: Dear Mr Snowden

I'm not so sure that it is primarily fickle and mostly stupid. I think to a considerable degree it is fear. The relentless propaganda about the threats to the American Way of Life, the belief that foreigners are trying to weaken the US and remove its "freedoms"

Which is where the stupid kicks in. Snowden effectively showed those people that it is thier own government who represents the greatest risk to their "American Way Of Life" by their unconstitutuional seizing of private citizens data for no other reason than "because we want to".

It is a direct violation of their constitutional rights. No ifs, no buts, it is illegal.

Yet, instead of being furious at their goverment for goosestepping down the road to totalitarianism they are angry at Snowden for opening their eyes to what is happening.

Morons the lot of them.

“When the people fear the government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is liberty.”

― Thomas Jefferson

5
0
Gold badge

"threats to the American Way of Life"

The American Way Of Life sucks rotting gorilla balls. Why the fuck would people want to actually defend a nation based on Animal Farm?

They were warnings, guys...not instruction manuals. America should give up trying to "defend it's way of life" and instead aspire to having a "way of life" as good as the many other nations that have since surpassed it.

9
0
Bronze badge
Childcatcher

"Or do you hate democracy"

As a republic, yes, they do.

I believe they cynically describe it as the "tyranny of the majority", or something, as though that must somehow be worse than the actual tyranny of elite minority, a.k.a. fascism.

How's that working out for them, by the way?

[snort]

1
0
Silver badge

Re: Dear Mr Snowden @ James O'Shea

You talk about insane when defending the country that has significant numbers of people that believe that the Earth is 6000 years old (or whatever), and that an old bearded guy in a bath-towel created it?

You might want to work on that argument.

2
0
Bronze badge
Headmaster

@Intractable Potsherd, Bronze Badge

I think you are confusing 'insane' and 'mistaken' . Lots and lots of people are mistaken - even you.

0
0
Boffin

Re: Dear Mr Snowden

James O'Shea:

" the current prez of Venezuela...accused the CIA of 'infecting' the previous prez"

"the previous prez accused the USN of generating earthquakes in Haiti."

Yeah, it's on the scale of presidents saying and believing Saddam was somehow behind 9/11....

"past whistleblowers, such as Daniel Ellsberg and even Bradley Manning ...stayed to face the music"

Stay with the facts! Bradley didn't "stay" as it was unknown he was the leak until someone else ratted him out. And Ellsberg himself explained recently that things have changed since his time and that the wisest thing to do in this day and age of empire, is to get the hell out in any similar situation.

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Do the right thing and you're slated by those who are supposed to be your peers!

Retarded, completely retarded. hardly surprising tho, the world is full of "thickies"

17
0
Silver badge

What about the other trial

You know, the one of all the people that broke the 4th amendment. I'd start with George Bush (either one, frankly) and work out from there.

17
0
Silver badge

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

Everyone knows 68.4% of stastistics are made up on the spot.

3
1
Silver badge
Thumb Up

Re: Lies, damned lies and statistics.

That's wrong.

Did you know that stating something as untrue is 87% more believable than stating the fact in the first place?

4
1
Anonymous Coward

Re: Lies, damned lies and statistics.

"That's wrong.

Did you know that stating something as untrue is 87% more believable than stating the fact in the first place?"

I don't believe you. That is a lie.

2
0
Silver badge
Paris Hilton

Re: Lies, damned lies and statistics.

Did you know that if you ask someone to make up a number, they will nearly always put a "7" in it?

0
0
Happy

Re: Lies, damned lies and statistics.

Of course, you're wrong!

Study after study has clearly shown that well over 99.99999% of statistics are simply used to make a political point.

0
0
Silver badge
Devil

The main reason

I think that the main reason for this "mood swing" is that the general public has, as a whole, an attention span of about 3 seconds. Since the phrase "Snowden is a bad spy hiding in Moscow" is constantly repeated, it blanks out his message of "The Spooks are snooping on everyone."

Watch the film "Wag the Dog"; QED.

19
2
Anonymous Coward

Re: The main reason

tl;dr.

The General Public.

4
0
Boffin

Re: The main reason

A movement of 3 percentage points hardly qualifies as a "mood swing". To be fair, Yougov.com doesn't provide information on the accuracy of their poll. But based on some quick calculations for a sample size of 1000 in a country of 250000000 to 300000000 people, 3% easily falls within the confidence interval at 95% and 99%.

Nothing to see here; move along.

3
0
Gold badge
Happy

Re: The main reason

"tl;dr.

The General Public."

Nice.

0
0
Silver badge
Unhappy

@ John Smith 19 - Re: The main reason

I agree with the tl, but am a bit disappointed about the dr; I didn't ramble that much . . .

miff.

JK

0
1

This post has been deleted by its author

Silver badge

Re: @ John Smith 19 - The main reason

Watch that "J/K."

In the US, that can get you 8 years in jail.

And that is why Snowden is quite right to run. There is a complete common-sense failure in the West.

When governments take great pains to defeat their own laws (PRISM, GITMO), why would you trust them to do the right thing? Indeed, why would the Iraqis or the Afgans or North Africans trust them? Even if governments are staying within the letter of the law, defeating the clear purpose of the law makes you untrustworthy.

When you dispense with morality and stick only to the law, there's no internal logic left in sticking to the law. There is only power and the quest for power.

Neitzsche would be proud.

2
0
Silver badge
Big Brother

Propoganda

Who says the fine art of propoganda isn't alive and well. The Snowden narrative, in the U.S. anyway, has steadily shifted in the papers with a notable increase in negative commentary after the Bolivian airplane incident. The 'they hate our Freedom' crowd has been trotted out in the LA Times and the economic importance of surveillance talked by the Wall Street Journal. It is really sad to know that people are so easily controlled. If I were an evil man it would make me want to be a politician.

20
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: Propoganda

Reading the various guardian articles on Snowden/NSA ~ one of the very interesting features of this banned newspaper (IP blocked in US dot mil) is the comments page beneath each article. There are often around a thousand comments , with a significant minority of commentards being blatantly very recently created 'sock-puppet' propaganda warfare elements. Obviously The Guardian isn't banned on every US gov dot mil nets, as otherwise the cyber warfare attempts to shift public opinion wouldn't be happening.

As I can't be bothered to read USA today Online etc comments, I've no idea if the same psycho warfare is being aimed at US news outlets & readers. The SPAWAR sockpuppets are so easy to spot on CiF , that they're probably making the situation worse for themselves , which isn't what the ludicrously expensive 'ten plausible ids per workstation' are supposed to achieve! Maybe in the Land Of The Free the sockpuppet herd opinion changing does work more reliably, hence the changing opinion polls? There's certainly a lot for sociologists to study if The Guardian ever looks at the true IPs of all the recently created proNSA commenters.

12
1

Re: Propoganda

Came here to say roughly the same thing: The American public isn't immune to NSA cointelpro, eh?

2
0
Gold badge
Unhappy

Re: Propoganda

" the economic importance of surveillance talked by the Wall Street Journal. I"

And Rupert Murdoch really understands the importance of both thorough surveillance and having good contacts in the police.

It's worked wonders for News Corps operations over the years.

0
0

Page:

This topic is closed for new posts.