back to article Firefox OS starts third-place race against Windows Phone

Mozilla has announced that smartphones running Firefox OS have arrived, with Telefonica-owned Spanish mobile phone operator Movistar promising delivery of the first low-priced phones on Tuesday. The Firefox shop announced on Monday that Alcatel's One Touch Fire handset, along with the ZTE Open, which will be distributed by both …

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But... but...

... Windows Phone isn't in third place.

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Re: But... but...

Yup. I'd think that even ailing Blackberry is probably still in that place.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: But... but...

You're joking right?

You can't be *that* uninformed, surely?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: But... but...

"Windows Phone isn't in third place."

Yes it is. It hasn't overtaken Apple just yet. But that will come.

Windows Phone is up to 8.8% market share in the UK as of the end of April and 5.6% in the USA and growing market share rapidly. In comparison the #4 player is Blackberry on 0.7%....(As per Kantar April 2013 figures.)

Personally I think the Firefox OS will join Jolla and Symbian on the bottom of the pile...It has nothing much to differentiate it, and lacks the funding of Microsoft, Samsung, etc.

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Meh

Re: But... but...

People can go ahead and state Windows phone is over Firefox, the statement only brightens the stain Windows bears and makes the danger Firefox poses even more fierce. The found ones of Microsoft should sing and dance while they can, the party seems to be winding down.

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Linux

Re: But... but...

Microsoft are in the mobile space?

Why hasn't anyone heard of this - you 'd have thought with all the windows users out there there would be some level of interest.

Oh, wait...

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Anonymous Coward

Windroid Phone?

Yea, since Android is technically owned by Microsoft that means Windroid Phone © is in second place behind iOS .. ref

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Anonymous Coward

Re: But... but...

Windows phone market share is in freefall. Down to 3% according to comScore.

http://www.neowin.net/news/comscore-microsofts-us-smartphone-market-share-down-in-may-2013

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Re: But... but...

I can be as uninformed as you can be sarcastic.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: But... but...

> Yes it is.

No it isn't.

> It hasn't overtaken Apple just yet. But that will come.

No it won't.

> Windows Phone is up to 8.8% market share in the UK as of the end of April and 5.6% in the USA and growing market share rapidly.

No it isn't.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: But... but...

That's 'Total Smartphone Subscribers' - i.e. installed base. Not market share of sales - which for Windows Phone in the US is up to 5.6% from the last Kantar numbers in April.

Also those numbers are only from the US, which is one of the worlds least significant markets. Nokia were previous #1 globally without even having a US presence...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: But... but...

> Yes it is.

No it isn't.

Oh yes it is: http://www.mobilenewscwp.co.uk/2013/05/21/windows-phone-overtakes-blackberry-as-third-largest-os/

> It hasn't overtaken Apple just yet. But that will come.

No it won't

More intelligent people than you say it will: http://www.information-age.com/technology/mobile-and-networking/2106893/windows-phone-will-overtake-ios-by-2016-idc-predicts

> Windows Phone is up to 8.8% market share in the UK as of the end of April and 5.6% in the USA and growing market share rapidly.

No it isn't.

My bad - actually 8.4%: http://www.kantarworldpanel.com/Global/News/While-Android-Leads-iOS-and-Windows-Are-Growing-At-A-Faster-Pace

http://www.zdnet.com/windows-phone-climbing-in-uk-but-cheap-androids-reign-in-spain-and-italy-7000016253/

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Oh no it isn't

http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2013/05/q1-numbers-in-bloodbath-year-four-smartphones-galore.html

Installed base is 5th place, behind Simbian and Blackberry, and barely ahead of bada. Market share is 3%. Remember to go for sales figures, and not get fobbed off with numbers shipped. The carriers hate Microsoft, and the manufacturers do not expect Windows to sell - all except rapidly fading Nokia.

The carriers want a third ecosystem, but it has to be ABM. The obvious guess is Tizen, but Mozilla, Ubuntu and Sailfish mean they are spoiled for choice. I would like to see them pass that choice on to customers - start with a dual or triple boot phone. Try each OS for a bit, then delete the ones you do not want.

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Stop

Re: But... but...

And since when the UK and the US are representative of the global market?

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The last five years

"Nokia were previous #1 globally without even having a US presence..."

Indeed, also on that note, I'm sad to see the article repeating the myth: "For five years, it has been Apple's iPhone and ad giant Google's Android OS which have held the top positions in the mobile world, and carriers don't like that."

Which is not even remotely true. The top position was Symbian until 2011, then overtaken by Android. Iphone only moved into 2nd place some time *after* that, after Symbian being dropped. Apple never had the top position. Before, it's been 3rd, 4th or even 5th place, in that 5 year time frame.

The statement might be more true if looking solely at the US, although BlackBerry also had a significant share there until more recently.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: But... but...

More intelligent people than you say it will: http://www.information-age.com/technology/mobile-and-networking/2106893/windows-phone-will-overtake-ios-by-2016-idc-predicts

Here's some more people who are more intelligent than me :- http://www.pyramidresearch.com/points/item/110509.htm

Bet they wish they'd been Anonymous Cowards now too, don't they?

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open handset initiatives which have come to nothing - SavaJe and LiMo

Perhaps if they had sensible names that people could pronounce they would have been more successful.

How do you pronounce SavaJe? Savage? Sava Jay? Sava Gee?

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Happy

Re: open handset initiatives which have come to nothing - SavaJe and LiMo

I believe you pronounce it "Bob" and when you refer to it, you call it "thingyma Bob" or as an alternative you can call it Jig.

"What OS does your phone use?"

"Oh, umm, thingyma Bob...."

See :D

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@ Irongut - Re: open handset initiatives which have come to nothing - SavaJe and LiMo

Now I know why the iPhone is so successful:

"aaa-pl"

Kinda Teletubbie-level. Everyone can ask for one.

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Re: @ Irongut - open handset initiatives which have come to nothing - SavaJe and LiMo

People often say it's amazing that kids can use iPads. Each time I'm amazed at the adults who haven't outgrown them.

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Anonymous Coward

great, another OS!

fantastic! Ubuntu and now this!

the average consumer is CONFUSED already.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: great, another OS!

"the average consumer is CONFUSED already."

The average consumer is confused the moment they wake up in the morning.

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FAIL

Re: great, another OS!

the AVERAGE user doesn't even know a phone has an OS.

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1- Windows IS in 3rd place but we'll see after the Nokia EOS comes out how quickly MS will catch up.

2- Firefox isn't even close to Windows.

3- In fact Firefox is so far behind they are actually behind Blackberry and Symbian.

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Well sure but "the ZTE would be commercially available from its Moviestar shops on 2 July." Since it's been out since tomorrow through one network operator it only seems reasonable that it would be ahead of nothing.

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"...only seems reasonable that it would be ahead of nothing."

Firefox OS is already ahead in my book, but who else is going to buy the same book?

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New OS...

... more innocent clients trapped in a NON-VOIP and capped phone.

Cheap phone, expensive maintenance.

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The more I think about it,

the more I believe it would be a good idea for Mozilla and Microsoft to team up and go to war against Apple and Google.

Still have IE and Firefox separate, but have Microsoft's financial muscle behind a friendly open-source organisation and switch IE's rendering engine to Gecko from Trident. It'll take that sort of opposition to prevent Webkit from Borg-ing the entire web.

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Re: The more I think about it,

Borg-ing.

I think you're using that wrong.

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If done right Firefox will push Microsoft into fourth but to Google's detriment.

With its initial offerings Mozilla is quite clearly aimed at the budget user, emerging markets and people going from feature phones to smartphones. Microsoft's WP8 has almost no presence in this market, the Nokia 520 is really at the top end of this category in both price and spec and its unlikely customers at that level would be choosing between a Nokia and a Firefox powered ZTE. What they would be choosing between is a Firefox phone and the various landfill Android handsets that make up a large portion of Google's market share and every Firefox mobe sold will be one less Android sold, not one less iPhone or WP8 handset sold.

Of course this is all dependant on carriers and manufacturers backing it.

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@MattEvansC3

> If done right Firefox will push Microsoft into fourth

But... but... Microsoft isn't in third.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: @MattEvansC3

"But... but... Microsoft isn't in third."

They are - and the gap between them and #4 (Blackberry) is growing. See links above.

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Anonymous Coward

"Microsoft's WP8 has almost no presence in this market, the Nokia 520 is really at the top end of this category"

http://cmvlive.com/technology/gadgets/new-figures-reveal-the-nokia-lumia-520-is-on-track-to-become-the-fastest-selling-windows-handset

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Anonymous Coward

Re: @MattEvansC3

No they aren't, and just repeating something over and over doesn't make it true.

(But, if it makes you feel any better, Ballmer doesn't get that either.)

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JDX
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Fighting MS? Hardly

MS isn't targeting the ultra low-cost end of the market. FF's main competition is Android for that market share - it's really a separate market and global market share 12st/2nd/3rd place is a little meaningless.

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I have a Windows Phone and I love it. I don't think I will ever go back to iOS

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Happy

Right with you there, although if they don't sort out podcast support I may slink back to ios.

Android = happy shopper iphone.

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This makes a very good netbook OS

I am sure, eventually, Firefox OS will surpass ChromeOS and RT in market share. It is based purely on HTML5 apps which is also the philosophy behind ChromeOS

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Anonymous Coward

Re: This makes a very good netbook OS

So Chrome OS took over the desktop and tablet market didn't it? And other OSs don't support HTML5? Oh, wait...

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Holmes

Re: This makes a very good netbook OS

The idea behind ChromeOS & FirefoxOS is to make HTML5 apps as powerful as Native apps. A noble thought, but unfortunately it remains an idea whose time is yet to come.

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Re: This makes a very good netbook OS

Though when it comes to most of the "website wrapper" apps offered in replacement of a website, I'm waiting for the native app to catch up with the power and functionality of the website / web browser...

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Holmes

Re: This makes a very good netbook OS

It never made sense to me to use a website wrapper. I preferred RSS feeds to the max possible extent or going to the actual website itself. Using wrappers instead of real sites (Cricinfo for ex.) makes me feel like eating Dogfood instead of real food.

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Anonymous Coward

Please, please, can we stop quoting Kantar? Their figures are survey-driven, NOT based on sales figures - sold, shipped, or anything else real-world - so they're open to extreme error.

As for IDC, I'm afraid they've been caught bending figures for pay so many times in the past that they can be disregarded as a reliable source.

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