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back to article Windows 8.1: So it's, er, half-speed ahead for Microsoft's Plan A

Following approximately one year after the release to manufacturing of Windows 8.0, which incorporated some radical changes, based around a new tablet platform running alongside the traditional desktop environment, Windows 8.1 is a critical release. Most Windows users have not warmed to the platform variously called Metro, …

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Trollface

I look forward enormously to the restrained, thoughtful and cerebral debate we can expect.....

on this thread.

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Re: restrained, thoughtful and cerebral debate we can expect.....

well, with The MS-Basher Who Shall Not Be Named now properly banished, there is a decent chance we actually WILL see restrained, thoughtful, and cerebral debate. A very, very SLIM chance but a chance nonetheless...

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Holmes

Re: I look forward enormously to the restrained, thoughtful and cerebral debate we can expect.....

I can see why they've waited for Friday afternoon before publishing this article....

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Happy

@Ugotta B. Kiddingme

You mean the Extremely Annoying Dude On Narcotics? That's news to me!

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Anonymous Coward

@Ugotta B. Kiddingme - Re: restrained, thoughtful and cerebral debate we can expect.....

I don't see many cerebral things with Windows 8.x. I mean why do I have to search for Excel when I know bloody damn well where it is ? Oh, and the thing with searching everywhere is even more patronizing for the poor Windows user. Heck, I don't see it that difficult to know if stuff I'm searching for is on my PC or on the Internet even if I might not know the precise location.

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Re: @AC

You don't have to search. Pin it to the taskbar, or to the desktop. I favour the taskbar, personally, it means the icon is always in the same place whether the application is running or not.

GJC

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Trollface

Re: I look forward enormously to the restrained, thoughtful and cerebral debate we can expect.....

They could have left his old comments on there - turned his profile into a shrine of sorts... a cautionary tale for future commentards.

http://forums.theregister.co.uk/user/34672/

How come he got deleted anyway?

Troll icon... in remembrance.

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Re: I look forward enormously to the restrained, thoughtful and cerebral debate we can expect.....

"...How come he got deleted anyway?..."

Because he was an annoying prick who said the same thing over and over and over again.

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Headmaster

Re "Troll icon.....in remembrance."

Good grief! They really modded his arse. I have to say that it really takes stamina to piss off Vulture Central to that degree - heaven help us all. I would be guilty of a considerable degree of hypocrisy if I attempted to pretend that he will be much missed although the sight of his entire "oeuvre" being replaced by "this post has been deleted by a moderator" was, to say the least of it, eerie.

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Re: I look forward enormously to the restrained, thoughtful and cerebral debate we can expect.....

The advantage to capitalism is you don't have to say a word nor does it matter really. The market has spoken and will speak going forward.

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Trollface

Re: restrained, thoughtful and cerebral debate we can expect.....

well, with The MS-Basher Who Shall Not Be Named now properly banished, there is a decent chance we actually WILL see restrained, thoughtful, and cerebral debate. A very, very SLIM chance but a chance nonetheless...

Unfortunately, the MS shills (no, not the ones that he claimed were shills, the real ones) are still here, so it is just time before one of them makes the retarded arguments pushed by MS shills and blowing up the comment section again.

Though it could be that they're basically the evil version of the Eadon troll, as one of them at least has been trolling the space related articles as well...

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Joke

Re: Re "Troll icon.....in remembrance."

Isn't getting thrown off the Register for making irrelevant remarks is a bit like being thrown out of the Pogues for excessive unruly behaviour

Hang on....

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Re: Re "Troll icon.....in remembrance."

"although the sight of his entire "oeuvre" being replaced by "this post has been deleted by a moderator" was, to say the least of it, eerie."

All the other sheep found Barry truly irritating, for his insistent "BAAAAAAAA". Then one night the wolves took Barry, leaving not even a few strands of wool. The other sheep thought they were pleased, but the absence of Barry was strangely disquieting, particularly to those who had Baa'ed most loudly that they wouldn't care if Barry were eaten by wolves.

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Facepalm

MS still don't get it...

Before GUI (Graphical User Interface), user interfaces didn't really have a name, you just had a bunch of things (keyboard, mouse, light-pen, touch, wheel, card-punch, tape switch...), and only used the ones that made sense. With the iPad touch has become the big input interface, but iPad & Android are still graphical, you still touch on-screen objects. Wi-8 is different because it is the first mainstream interface where the touch gestures have no graphical equivalent.

Swipe from right for charms bar, swipe from left to switch-app, swipe up for menu, point mouse to corners are all touch oriented, with no graphical equivalent, and it's all counter-intuitive because we've all become graphical oriented.. and won't go back 30 years to the CICS "this is the way it works, get used to it" world.

restoring the graphical "start-button" is a start, but also need to follow WinPhone "settings" app and "..." graphic for context menu... we're not luddites or thickies, it's not us, its them.. and they still haven't learned the lesson

only in New Zealand does a TUI make sense as the only interface

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Re: I look forward enormously to the restrained, thoughtful and cerebral debate we can expect.....

We need a People's Trial of Ballmer and throw him in the nearest live volcano for taxing our stupidity with the slowest Live Tiles ever imagined since the Commodore 64. Instead of axing workers why not axe Windows!

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Devil

Re: who said the same thing over and over and over again.

But how does that greatly differentiate him from the authors of these articles promoting how great the New! and Improved! version of Windows is?

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Re: slowest Live Tiles ever imagined since the Commodore 64

Hey! The Commodore 64 was pretty damned snappy in its day. Only problem I ever had with them was always burning out the damned power supplies.

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Re: who said the same thing over and over and over again.

"But how does that greatly differentiate him from the authors of these articles promoting how great the New! and Improved! version of Windows is?"

They get paid to say that, and it's usually trivial to ignore them. He dumped his crap all over, so that it was hard to avoid him, and, worse, he dumped his crap into places which had absolutely nothing to do with Microsoft. I am not particularly fond of Windows (I usually use a Mac) but I could, and did, see where he blatted utter nonsense. And then blatted that utter nonsense again, and again, and again. If he had been more accurate, or if he had accepted correction and then been more accurate, then I would have been most annoyed at his having been banned. As it is, well, perhaps he will learn from this, and reform. Doubt it, though. His type rarely learn anything even after being whacked a few times by the Cluestick of Destiny.

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No

"a platform designed from the beginning for touch control."

I don't know what your talking about, but it's not Windows 8. As soon as you need to do something that's not included in Metro (like the control panel) your back in Windows 7 and it's clear Metro is tacked on after the fact, not designed from the beginning.

I've more then once plugged a mouse into my crappy surface (glad they included that full size USB port) because touch was hopeless for what I was trying to do.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: No

If you are tinkering in the control panel you are not the sort of user Microsoft are after

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Thumb Down

Re: No

I've rummaged through the settings on my Android and on the other half's iOS systems previously.

Sometimes you just have to.

MS should've factored this in, and created a Control Panel app.

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Re: No

"If you are tinkering in the control panel you are not the sort of user Microsoft are after"

No. But perhaps you're the kind of person who is paid to fix the problems those users are having. Problem is you're left sitting there swearing at the clunky piece of shit instead of actually fixing it.

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Search as primary means of navigation?

The primary gets up my nose quickly. I may be old-fashioned, but I prefer remembering where I left things, and simply moving directly to the right location (cd under linux, or multiple clicks in windows explorer). If I forget, I just use find/grep in linux, and search when on windows (after berating myself for forgetting ;-) ).

I find hiding the "complexity" of a file system from me just annoys me. Others may like it of course.

Please note that the opinion expressed above is solely the opinion of the author, and not necessarily the opinion of those with other opinions

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Re: Search as primary means of navigation?

This gets to me, Unity is the same.

See in my everyday life? I only search for things if I can't remember where I put them, or if I can't remember where they are.

When I'm in Tesco, if I want beans, I go to the beans. In the house, if I need spanner, I go to where I keep my spanners. Every week when I'm out in the car, I go to the petrol station to get petrol.

I don't search for any of these things - I just go to where I know they are. The only time I search is when I don't know where something is, and it always takes longer than when I know where I put the damn thing.

I would like the same to be true on my fekking computer, Mr Ballmer.

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Pint

Re: Search as primary means of navigation?

It's almost as if someone in Redmond saw Ubuntu 11 with Unity and thought they should copy it.

I'm with Mr Wilkinson - when I put a shortcut on the desktop I want it to stay there, not be automatically cleaned away just to keep the place tidy and make me search again.

Leave my pint alone as well.

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Re: Search as primary means of navigation?

the reason is simple, MS want you to loose the ability to remember things like for example how bad the riben interface with its illogically ordered tabs made office 2007 or how Vista was sold on PCs which were not powerful enough to run it (like mu mums PC based on a semperon 300 processor and 512 MB of RAM)

they want this despite the fact that remembering were it is (instead of being able to find it by typing its name) can help develope (or at least slow deteriation of) your brain.

Microsoft (like most corporations, governments and groups of any kind) do not want people smart enough to think for themselves and ask why.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Search as primary means of navigation?

It's a feature added at the request of the NSA so they can find things on your system easier.

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Re: Search as primary means of navigation?

I'm also not a fan of search spanning my machine and Bing. I either want to search my machine, or the internet. I cannot remember ever having had searching both at the same time be a use case I actually needed.

I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that it can be disabled, but still.

(The author's use case of wanting it to search in calendars seems pretty wild to me too.)

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Re: Search as primary means of navigation?

When I can hold my coffee in one hand, mouse in the other and launch an unpinned application such as a vpn client without having to lose focus on whatever I am looking at then I will know that Windows 8 has made some progress.

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Re: Search as primary means of navigation?

It's about the only thing I like in Win8, being able to type the start of a program's name and to go straight to it. A lot quicker typing a few characters than clicking, moving mouse, clicking, moving mouse, clicking, moving mouse.

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@ The Axe

unless you have hundreds of utilities that you don't know the name of. For example on occasion I use a particular tool for repairing a particular file type. I don't know what it is called. I have it stored in a location with similar tools.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Search as primary means of navigation?

"I prefer remembering where I left things". Agree! If its as badly worked out as the search from XP to Win7, then the OS will often fail to find files you've just created, copied or worked-on because the indexer hasn't caught up. I see this all the time, and it amazes me users don't shout about it.

Win 7 did add some very useful features, like being able to type in multiple extensions and exclusions in the search box etc. But having to use something like system.filename~="--" to find business or lab files that don't begin with conventional numbers or letters is beyond many users IMHO...

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Re: Search as primary means of navigation?

You mean like you could do in Vista, 7 and 8...

That just type the first couple of characters approach ain't nothing new...

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Re: Search as primary means of navigation?

Searching for apps can be done in Windows 7. it's the stupid tiles and lack/waste of space that's the issue with me. With Windows 7, there's enough space to display the whole program name (even in a 5cm wide menu) . In Win 8, you only get to see the first few chars worth of the app name. Take Photoshop for example. There's "Adobe Photoshop CS6 (64bit)" and "Adobe Photoshop CS6 (32bit)" You can't tell which one is which on Windows 8 because there's not enough space to display the entire name.

Ironically, I have a bunch of 'search' programs that I have in a folder on Windows 7. They're all slightly different and depending on what I'm looking for I use a different app. On windows 7, I simply whiz down to 'All Programs' > tools > 'Text Search' or 'All Programs' > tools > 'Image Search' and there they all are, all with unrememberable names like astrogrep, sedawkgui, wingrep, etc. Alongside them are a few batch scripts for more complex searches. If I pick the wrong one, the alternative is next on the list. Try doing that with 'search'.

Also, Windows 8 doesn't let me have hierarchical structure so I whilst can group my tools into folders, I can't put folders within folders. In Windows 8, my various tools folders are all on the same level as my main apps folders. My apps finder screen now stretches to 30 odd pages which makes app location even more difficult, because it's forcing me to wade through all my apps, not just my search tools. Before they were all tucked away, out of sight until needed under 'Tools'.

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N2
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Re: Search as primary means of navigation?

Spot on,

And when some numpty at Sainsburys decides to move the shelf with the beans and change the colour of the packaging, I have to search, if only MS could just stop the same perpetual tinkering.

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Re: Search as primary means of navigation?

Search always assume that you can remember the name of what you're looking for. Humans are *much* better at spacial memory; so it's considerably easier to remember where something is than the name of it. My win7 has the classic shell interface (set up in an XP style) and I can get to anything on the machine in seconds; irrespective of whether I can remember the name of it or not (usually not...remembering shit is the computer's job).

What M$ seems to be missing out on completely is that windows is not the work itself; it's the vehicle you use to get there. You just want it to operate the system; make available the tools you want to fire up; then get the fuck out of the way. WIn8 -to continue the vehicle analogy- may have an awesome paint job and be suitable for RHD and LHD conditions; but the 83-speed gearbox is in the back seat; the steering wheel is hidden in the glovebox and there's 3 anchors and a parachute hanging off the back.

Also; given all the XBox One news of late; I have to admit that -being the same company- I'm getting some trust issues over the directions they're headed. Definitely don't want those sorts of shenanigans on a work machine. My machine is fucking mine; and fuck what the EULA says.

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Re: Search as primary means of navigation?

You could type names and hit return in Windows 7 too.

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Mushroom

Re: Search as primary means of navigation?

Check next to the cat food, that is where the coffee(and later the Pizza), moved last time my local numpty had a move around.

Meanwhile the nuke is for.....

HEY!! BALMER !!! YOU ASS!!!

WHERE ARE MY NESTED FOLDERS???????

Like others, I group my programs, I dont want EVERYTHING showing in one huge muddle.

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Re: Search as primary means of navigation?

You can do that in Windows 7 as well. Press the Window key, type in the first few letters of the prog, use the arrow keys if quicker than typing a few more letters, then press enter.

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Pint

Re: Leave my Pint alone

If MS had their way, the only beer available would be some yellowy 'gnats piss' rather than a decent pint.

Thankfully, they don't so mine's a pint of 'Rip Snorter'.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Search as primary means of navigation?

Only works if

The actual .exe is remotely the same as the name of the application

What about multiple versions of the same app then? (I have at least 9 copies of Eclipse on my desktop PC)

If MS would introduce a 'mega geek/power user' mode which returned eveything to Win 7 (with QuickLaunch) AND kept all of those annoying MS, 'I'm trying to help you' things out of the way then I for one would be happy. I'd expect that it would also make many of the commentators here happy as well.

Sadly this is as likely as Balmer getting his Pink Slip anytime soon.

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Mushroom

Re: Leave my Pint alone

"If MS had their way, the only beer available would be some yellowy 'gnats piss' rather than a decent pint."

I guess you havn't bene to American then - that's a good description of their beer...

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Facepalm

@The Axe - Re: Search as primary means of navigation?

Wrote :- "the only thing I like in Win8, being able to type the start of a program's name and to go straight to it. A lot quicker typing a few characters than clicking [etc]"

Perhaps you'd be happier with this then :- http://www.freedos.org/

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@ The Axe

This is the precise reason that I have abandoned Ubuntu in favour of Linux Mint/Cinnamon/Docky.

If I wanted to type the name of an application to launch it, I would be using a command line interface, not a GUI.

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Pint

Re: Leave my Pint alone

Not so much. You can get a wide variety of beers from bloody marvelous to Schlitz in most areas within striking distance of large bodies of water now.

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Pint

Re: Search as primary means of navigation?

This is one of the most true and wise posts I've ever read here. I am in awe.

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Re: @ The Axe

..or 4 versions of visual studio, each complete with half a dozen links named the same for the most part. Well except if you started with "v", you lost because although the folder and all other links might start with "visual studio", the main IDE itself is named "microsoft visual studio XXXX".

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Childcatcher

Re: Search as primary means of navigation?

> "A lot quicker typing a few characters..."

just like the BASH shell?

Same problem too, If I don't remember the name of the executable, how do I find it?

Let's face it, "search" has the same purpose as Firefox's "Awsome Bar". It's not there to help YOU, it's there to provide statistics for targeted ads and steer you where they want you to go.

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Coffee/keyboard

Re: Search as primary means of navigation?

"the 83-speed gearbox is in the back seat; the steering wheel is hidden in the glovebox and there's 3 anchors and a parachute hanging off the back.

made me laugh out loud (which in a house that had been otherwise silent for over an hour scared the daylights out of the cat, thanks a lot...pardon me while I fetch the stepladder and attempt to detach the feline from the ceiling.)

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Re: Search as primary means of navigation?

Isn't this the handbag approach to storage and retrieval?

But even a handbag will probably have a pocket for a purse, compact, etc.

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