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back to article Glasgow subway's new smart tickets aren't, moan passengers

Glasgow's new smart tickets, for use on the city's underground network, aren't smart enough to count the journeys made, forcing the operator to withdraw carnet tickets at the end of June. Strathclyde Partnership for Transport (SPT) has named the new system Bramble, eschewing its traditional seafood nomenclature. Bramble, which …

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FAIL

Doubling? Did I miss something?

You say that a 20 carnet trip costs £22, and a week pass costs £12. So buying 2 week passes, costs £24.

I would hardly hardly consider a £2 add on as doubling the cost of transport!

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Re: Doubling? Did I miss something? Yes you did.

The original card was for 20 journeys, if you worked Mon-Fri and didn't travel at weekends it would last 4 working weeks.

The new card is a 7 day pass so over the same period you would need to buy an extra two passes to get you through 4 working weeks, a total of £48.

Or if you divided it up into single journeys it would be £1.10 against £1.71 per journey.

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Re: Doubling? Did I miss something? Yes you did.

Well I'm glad you explained that as el reg spectacularly failed to do so.

They may as well make this site one big wiki and we can all just make edits, it wouldn't affect the quality of journalism.

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FAIL

Re: Doubling? Did I miss something? Yes you did.

4 weeks? TFA says 2 weeks. 20 journeys is 4 weeks only if you take the subway in one direction.

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Re: Doubling? Did I miss something? Yes you did.

is it the case that it was 20 RETURN journeys under the old system - otherwise the numbers don't seem to stack.?

Whether £1.10 for a single trip or return it is spectacularly cheap commuting. On a bus round here I could barely go a few stops for the same price.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Doubling? Did I miss something? Yes you did.

I understood it to mean you buy a days journey on the carnet valid for 20 journeys not individual journeys.

Once stamped the ticket is valid for the whole day you travel.

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Re: Doubling? Did I miss something?

Every other carnet system I've ever seen or used is a book of single journeys, either they were previously very generously all-day-fill-your-boots tickets for £1.10 which is insanely cheap (£7-odd here in the West Country for buses only £12.30 to add in some trains), or whoever did the sums can't count.

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Re: Doubling? Did I miss something? Yes you did.

It is 20 single journeys. It's cheap, but it doesn't go very far.

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Re: Doubling? Did I miss something? Yes you did.

Er, please explain to a non-Glaswegian how I would only need one journey per working day 'cos where I live I make two journeys every working day, so 5 x 2 = 10 per week.

/confused

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Re: Doubling? Did I miss something? Yes you did.

Surely that only works if you are walking home every day. Maybe part time workers have have a case but regular workers are no worse off...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Doubling? Did I miss something? Yes you did.

I understood it to mean you buy a days journey on the carnet valid for 20 journey days not individual journeys.

Once stamped the ticket is valid for the whole day you travel.

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Re: Doubling? Did I miss something?

The original calculations failed to mention that most of the carnet users only use one ticket per day, they get on the train in the morning and then spend the rest of the day riding around without ever getting off the train. It's nice to have somewhere warm and dry to drink all that Buckfast.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Doubling? Did I miss something? Yes you did.

The glasgow system, under the current 20 journey 'carnet', or 20 multi-journey as its called is as follows:

it costs you 22 quid.

it gives you 20 single journeys on the underground, not 20 days or something like that.

if you travel TO and BACK from work, that is 2 journeys. therefore, if you travel 5 days a week, both ways, and do not go out on weekends, then one 20 multi-journey ticket will last you 2 weeks.

Am a bit confused at the journo's assertian that prices have doubled as well... glasgow underground like to keep their price hikes small and often.. a doubling would just make it too obvious :)

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FAIL

Re: Doubling? Did I miss something? Yes you did.

"I understood it to mean you buy a days journey on the carnet valid for 20 journey days not individual journeys.

Once stamped the ticket is valid for the whole day you travel."

Hmm. And from the article, the relevant part that everyone commenting in this thread so far must be very familiar with:

"A commuter paying £22 for a 20-journey carnet (at £1.10 per trip, enough for two weeks commuting) will instead have to buy two seven-day passes at £12 a pop, more than doubling the cost of travel."

"20-journey" (not "20 journey days") and "enough for two weeks" (which fits with twenty individual journeys - five days per week, one trip each way) - all of which strongly indicates that the increase over two weeks is £2, and not "more than doubling the cost of travel" which it then goes on to actually state.

I think Bill Ray may have read (and quoted) that it more than doubles the cost, and read the 20 journeys without realising it meant journey days, doing his own maths to establish that it lasts two weeks, without spotting that the two things are contradictory.

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Re: Doubling? Did I miss something? Yes you did.

20 journeys lasts for 2 weeks, not 4. 5 days per week, 2 journeys per day.

The cost goes up by £2 a fortnight, not "more than double".

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Doubling? Did I miss something? Yes you did.

@Kraggy

You get so pished in the evening, an ambulance has to take you home...

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Anonymous Coward

There's always one

"It's nice to have somewhere warm and dry to drink all that Buckfast."

Anymore stereotypical bullshite?

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Devil

An ambulance has to take you home.

OK, seriously, when I lived in Glasgow, the police and ambulance service made a public appeal for this practice to stop. Apparently, people who found themselves wanting to go somewhere that was roughly on the way to the hospital were faking an injury or illness of some sort, calling an ambulance, and then announcing a miraculous recovery and asking to be let out when they reached their destination.

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Mushroom

Re: There's always one

Tight - moaning about an extra £2

No sense of humour (your post above)

Need I go on?

:-)

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Holmes

Re: Doubling? Did I miss something?

A £2 increase on £22 is over 9%. That's a MORE THAN DOUBLE* increase, which is obviously what El Reg meant.

* the inflation rate

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Devil

Re: An ambulance has to take you home.

A thumbs-down? For a true story? Why? Not having enough of a sense of humour to take a joke is one thing; not enough to handle reality, quite another.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Doubling? Did I miss something? Yes you did.

"Er, please explain to a non-Glaswegian how I would only need one journey per working day 'cos where I live I make two journeys every working day, so 5 x 2 = 10 per week."

The clockwork orange goes in one big loop, so you just stay on, and get back to your house eventually. An additional bonus is you don't need an office to go to. One downside is there's no internet connection. And it's not very good for your health (going through places like Ibrox)

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Re: Doubling? Did I miss something? Yes you did.

So you go to work every day but you don't return home?

Commuting involves 2 trips per day, 20 / 2 is 10 so you get 10 days travel on a 20 trip ticket. Which is 2 weeks commute.

So the old tickets were £22 for 2 weeks commute and the new tickets are £24 for two weeks commute.

So it's a pound a week more. Hardly breaking the bank and definitely not doubl.ing the cost.

Extra detention to redo your maths all round.

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Re: Doubling? Did I miss something? Yes you did.

£1.10 is the cost of the underground, given that it only serves some parts of the city some parts of the day (not night service and little on a Sunday), the price is fair.

FristBus hold a near monopoly on buses in Glasgow (and as the city council are bunch of gutless wasters spunking money on jumped-up sports days when no destroying the local architecture - e.g. George Square); FirstBus get away with totally eye-watering prices (and a dreadful service).

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Boffin

Re: Doubling? Did I miss something? Yes you did.

I'm gonna get pished after reading through this thread!

maths on El Reg seems to fare badly in comments - I've been marked down before for pointing that out.

<Dons heat-proof Y-fronts>

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Anonymous Coward

Re: There's always one

Think of it as a diet. That's 2 steak bakes less you'll have the cash for.

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Coat

Re: Doubling? Did I miss something? Yes you did.

Easy one. They're Scotsmen and it costs 'em extra to get off at the other end, so they don't.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Doubling? Did I miss something? Yes you did.

Assuming you get the subway to and from work, the 20 journey pass will only last 2 weeks... it's 20 single journeys, not 20 day passes/return tickets

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Unhappy

If

It is as they claim 'better value' could they please come to a televised forum and explain why?

Obviously it has been introduced to increase revenue at the expense of travellers......

In Brazil the Government quickly changed its mind over the fare increases there, it just depends on how strongly you feel about it and if you want to protest.

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Mushroom

Re: If

You could protest if you wish, but would the result of a riot in Glasgow have any noticable impact on the area? It's already World War Z as it is....

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Anonymous Coward

And another one

"You could protest if you wish, but would the result of a riot in Glasgow have any noticable impact on the area? It's already World War Z as it is...."

Any more stereotpyes? Any one? The trolls that post here are so predictable.

And you wonder why no one takes you seriously?

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Devil

Stereotypes.

One of the things I love about Glaswegians is that they take the piss out of themselves and their city so much and so well. You clearly didn't get the memo.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: And another one

Anything that keeps half-cut Weegies off the streets is good in my book.

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Happy

Re: And another one

I went to Glasgow once, we refer to it as Belfast-lite…

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Anonymous Coward

Re: And another one

""You could protest if you wish, but would the result of a riot in Glasgow have any noticable impact on the area? It's already World War Z as it is...."

Any more stereotpyes? Any one? The trolls that post here are so predictable.

And you wonder why no one takes you seriously?"

You've missed that fact that Glasgow was actually the shooting location for some of the scenes in World War Z.

Bit of a sad story here pal, mah wifes been bitten and ah just need fifty pee tae get the bus up tae Dennistoun tae finish her aff afore she turns mah wean.

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Re: Stereotypes.

Reported in the Herald diary recently: A couple of Glaswegians were walking through the city centre one Sunday and saw it prepared for shooting a disaster movie. Rubble all over the place, burned our cars and buses strewn around. One turned to the other and said, calmly, "I see Celtic lost at home yesterday".

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Anonymous Coward

Re: And another one - Aye!

The 2 directions on the Subway are known as the inner and outer, because they couldn't find 2 wise folk in town. If they had, iit would have been called clockwise and counter-clockwise.

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re. traditional seafood nomenclature

They could have called it 'cod'.

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Paris Hilton

Re: re. traditional seafood nomenclature

I reckon they should have called it "Crabz Card".

The slogan could have been "Itching to go somewhere? Then you've got Crabz!"

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Re: re. traditional seafood nomenclature

How about Fugu - it inflates itself and is toxic!

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Re: re. traditional seafood nomenclature

"They could have called it 'cod'."

How about "Docker's oyster card"?

On a slightly more serious note, why didn't the daft bu99ers just use the same Oyster card system as London. All the R&D's done, it works on buses, trams and tubes, and it works very well.

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Re: re. traditional seafood nomenclature

Except that it's haddock, not cod, in most Scottish fish suppers.

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Meh

Re: re. traditional seafood nomenclature

.... why didn't the daft bu99ers just use the same Oyster card system as London.

That would mean overturning several hundred years of tradition and admitting that the effete English bastards got something right.

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Anonymous Coward

price increases

they do them every so often.. at about 4-5 times the speed of inflation :)

Also, fuck the ticketing system, that's the least of their useless money squandering... they decided to upgrade the entire underground system in time for the 2014 commonwealth games.. which apparently didn’t mean extend service, opening of new stations, new trains or extending the circle line (the only line), but DID mean ripping up all the classy looking brown/beige tile off the walls and slap white slaughterhouse tiles everywhere making the stations converted so far look like abbatoirs… putting in more metal and orange lights.. and now seemingly putting up new barriers.. because the old magnet stripe tickets were working too well? Because they were running out of paper? Because they had more money than they knew what to do with?

Piss on them, I now ride a bike to work.

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Re: price increases

You take the bike now - perhaps its a new fitness scheme in disguise!

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No they don't!

"the Clockwork Orange, as _everyone else seems to think_ Glaswegians fondly refer to their subway network". There, fixed that for you.

They just don't; in 20 years here, I've never heard it referred to as such, except by outsiders. It was officially called the Underground for long enough but changed officially to the Subway as that's all Weegies ever, ever call it.

That is all.

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FAIL

Re: No they don't!

Yeah its called the "underground" except for by folk who don't do their research it seems. Who ever wrote this needs a bollocking and a math exam for Age 5

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