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back to article Jaguar to open new car-making factory in Blighty (virtually)

Jaguar Land Rover has promised to return car manufacturing to Britain, although it will only be simulating cars rather than building them. It has announced plans to plough £10m into developing simulation technology which will allow designers to mimic the process of building and testing a car. The programme is a collaboration …

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"return car manufacturing to Britain"

Where do you think JLR build (plenty of) their cars now?

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Re: "return car manufacturing to Britain"

Indeed. And have just built a brand new powertrain factory in Wolverhampton ....

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WTF?

Re: "return car manufacturing to Britain"

Er, yes, this rather confused me too - as far as I was aware, Gaydon, Halewood, Castle Bromwich, Whitley and Solihull were all in the UK. In fact I think the only JLR manufacturing facility outside in the UK is a single site in India where some Freelanders for foreign markets are assembled.

As for the future and China, well that's a different matter...

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Re: "return car manufacturing to Britain"

Nightfox: Land Rovers have been assembled, generally from kits and under licence, in: Turkey, Malaysia, Jordan, Brazil, South Africa, India, Spain ...... to name a few.

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Headmaster

Re: "return car manufacturing to Britain"

Just to correct JimmyPage slightly "are still building a new powertrain factory near Wolverhampton...."

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Re: "return car manufacturing to Britain"

Exactly!

As an XF owner myself, I was sure to check the assembly plant my car would be made at was in the UK before buying!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "return car manufacturing to Britain"

"As an XF owner myself, I was sure to check the assembly plant my car would be made at was in the UK before buying!"

How else would you ensure the legendary JLR reliability?

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Re: "return car manufacturing to Britain"@arober11

"Land Rovers have been assembled, generally from kits and under licence"

"KD" or knock-down kits have been used by many car makers over the years. There's usually a fundamental gap between full on local assembly and KD. KD typically has around 90% of the work done in the original market, and the only bit being done in local markets is the equivalent of the final assembly and inspection.

KD assembly doesn't count as "manufacturing" any more than making a Caterham in my garage would. Usually it is only done to get round trade restrictions and vehicle import duties, because the costs are often greater than the small labour cost savings and transport costs (kits cheaper to move than complete vehicles).

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Re: "return car manufacturing to Britain"

Where were the kits made?

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Re: "return car manufacturing to Britain"@ Alan Brown

Usually by the main manufacturing plant in the home market (I worked for Ford Truck before the days of JLR, so can't really speak for their practices). So you would take (say) doors complete at body in white stage (bare metal), undercoat it, stick it in a crate with all the other bits to make a complete door. Or you could assemble the door completely, but that means you need to know the colour of the final vehicle, or do an overspray of a semi complete vehicle (mature markets wouldn't accept that, developing markets are more tolerant). Depending on the destination you can have welding done there, or have all done by the original plant, and just "bolt together" at the final plant. That's why some of the KD vehicles look a bit different,depending non how "true to form" the design was. The Ford Cargo trucks I was familiar with had some KD versions that looked like they'd been made by origami, because the bolt together design meant you couldn't use the original nicely curved panels. In the case of Land Rover I'd guess that similar KD versions looked just like the MoD lightweight Landies, but you could make them as complex or as simple as you needed.

These days, the manufacturing plant is actually a final assembly plant, because so much true manufacturing (as in cutting, pressing, moulding, bending, forming, machining) is done at different sites. So engines often from other dedicated plant, brake discs from specialist third parties, wheels come in fitted on tyres, instrument cluster fully assembled from (say VDO), body pressings from specialist press companies, wiring loom from specialists, door panels from Lear (if theyr'e still in business). Even so, the welding of the bodyshell still tends to be the preserve of the "original" plant, and KD remains a product with differences, non-standard parts, and lower quality standards.

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Re: AC Re: "return car manufacturing to Britain"

"......How else would you ensure the legendary JLR reliability?" Hmmmm, I think you missed the sarc tags off that one!

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Re: AC "return car manufacturing to Britain"

I think he also meant "legendary" in the sense of "apocryphal".

I'm going one better than Jag; I'm going to simulate a lab simulating the building of cars.

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Re: "return car manufacturing to Britain"@Ledswinger

Austin Maestros had been disassembled to kit form for export to eastern europe, but the venture didn't pan out, so someone decided to re-assemble them and sell them. Hence a brand-new Austin Maestro in the early 2000s! http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=17047

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Go

They Understand Their Market

Future bosses will be needing Jag simulators to get to their teleconferences.

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Childcatcher

Re: They Understand Their Market

And. They can go on a virtual drive to their virtual golf courses to do virtual business.

SNAFU

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Anonymous Coward

Cars are so boring... Why even buy one..... OK, maybe one exception.....

....IMHO The average car looks bland, new cars are just not sexy. Why do people throw away their dosh....? Cars are expensive with road tax, insurance, mot, fuel-- and depreciation! Its not worth it. .... Except... for the Jaguar XK8. Its a super-car that even an IT income can stretch to for a second hand model. But they don't build them anymore! Please, please, please Jaguar bring back the XK8. They were beautiful, gorgeous even! You can still see models from the mid-nineties on the road, so they are clearly workhorses when maintained. The XK8 is the only car I've ever owned. But you're lucky in the UK as you are spoilt for choice with Porches, Lotus and TVR etc. But for my money the XK8 will always look the most classy.... From Wikipedia: "Clarkson, during a Top Gear test-drive, likened the interior of the original XK8 to sitting inside Blenheim Palace."

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Re: Cars are so boring... Why even buy one..... OK, maybe one exception.....

They would go out of business if they just made it as people now want Audi's as the "must have" brand (outside of the exotics) that all look the same. The major car companies are all making very similar car's with a couple of differences across the board (small car/exec/family etc) and then wondering why they are struggling to sell to 18-35 bracket. Fiat are managing it with the 500 but they are cashing in their retro card on that one (MINI have worn theirs out). other then that a lot of the badges could be interchangeable, it would still be a bland pudding mold thing.

So far the solution has been to add touch screens and iWotsits because "kids like gadgets". Toyota are about the only company to try something a bit different with the GT86 but even the old stalwarts like the Golf continue to get rounder and heavier. Then you have the whole "built for the nurburgring" syndrome making everything further identical. Mazda still shift loads of MX5's as it allows a lot of driving experience for not much money, who cares if it can not lap the ring in under 9 minutes?

One day car companies will learn that you buy a car either to get from A to B, enjoy driving or a bit of both. Most people do not buy car's to view facebook or tweet their location whilst compiling a playlist of what Brand X thinks you like.

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Re: Cars are so boring... Why even buy one..... OK, maybe one exception.....

Used to be most every year of production a car changed slightly. It gave the cars character and made them easy to recognize, it was something people could learn and get behind. Now there are very few cars that have any character, they all look mostly alike and have mostly the same features. There's no brand recognition and its hard to 'fall in love with [manufacturer]' if the company is flogged off to someone else every few years.

There was also the customizable aspect of buying a new car. You could order a car for you without all the predefined package garbage. Sure it took a few weeks longer to get your car but it was yours! It made the buyer feel special. Now the car buying experience is just a boring commodity purchase with 'dealer transfers' and 'special lease rates', boring stuff. Even with fairly expensive vehicles they'll offer you a jacket or fucking golf bag as an incentive, anything to distract you from the car. A vehicle is no longer an experience and that just sucks.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Cars are so boring... Why even buy one..... OK, maybe one exception.....

How I agree. No status, no way to show off, and the expensive ones are so damned small you have to drive them yourself. Horses are slow and out of fashion, bikes no better. How I wish there was something to show who I am. What has happened to this world, private railways gone too.

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Re: Cars are so boring... Why even buy one..... OK, maybe one exception.....

There are plenty of options, they are just harder to find, I had to have my last two shipped over as there weren't any like I wanted here in the states. Regardless, you can't go down to the dealership and enjoy the car buying process anymore though. it doesn't mean it has to be fancy, it could just be a mini van, but the experience of buying and the character of the vehicle is lost/never existed, which is a real shame.

I have some horses too but they won't let me take them down the Interstate and the carriage is simply too fragile for daily use anyway. Private railcars are still a thing. CSX has an entire division dedicated to them. I don't have time for the train though, maybe after I retire.

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Re: Cars are so boring... Why even buy one..... OK, maybe one exception.....

Nothing stopping you having a Zeppelin, though. Surely you've got a spare few hectares at the bottom of the estate for a hangar and all that?

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Re: Cars are so boring... Why even buy one..... OK, maybe one exception.....

Maybe someday, but the pilots are extraordinarily hard to find.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Cars are so boring... Why even buy one..... OK, maybe one exception.....

Ultima GTR.

Chaterham Superlight R500

Ariel Atom

Westfield 11

and on and on...

Oh you mean run of the mill tin tops...sorry, thought for one minute you meant cars made for driving, not taking a nap in, during the plod to work.

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Unhappy

Re: Cars are so boring... Why even buy one..... OK, maybe one exception.....

"You could order a car for you without all the predefined package garbage. Sure it took a few weeks longer to get your car "

Last new car I ordered was brand new, pre-defined package (had everything I wanted & more included) and I still had to wait 15 weeks for it :(

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Cars are so boring... Why even buy one..... OK, maybe one exception.....

Out of the list the Ultima GTR stands out. Its a kit for 16k?

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Devil

Re: AC Re: Cars are so boring... Why even buy one..... OK, maybe one exception.....

".....Its a kit for 16k?" I know, he really should have included some gems like the M600 (http://www.noblecars.com/).

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I don't understand the headline

Jags are manufactured in Britain and it's been widely reported how they have increased the capacity recently. They have also had to appease the unions over working hours. Tata are simultaneously looking to manufacture in other territories like China and India, but thats no different to Japanese factories in the UK.

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Vince Cable, the Lib Dem MP and Business Secretary, said he was delighted

It is over 5 years and 6 of the 10 million is from the government.

If this delights Vince we must be in far deeper shit than even I imagined.

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UK better at building, but rubbish at owning.

Saw the news yesterday that the UK now makes more cars than France and nearly all the owners are not based in the UK

We are now the 'salary slave' of Europe.

Congratulations unions of the 70's, your socialist utopia has arrived.

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Re: UK better at building, but rubbish at owning.

Saw the news yesterday that the UK now makes more cars than France and nearly all the owners are not based in the UK

Oh noes! Exports are literally the worst possible thing that can happen to an economy!

Er, right?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: UK better at building, but rubbish at owning.

"Congratulations unions of the 70's, your socialist utopia has arrived."

I'm not quite with you here.

There are a number of succesful car manufacturers in the UK.

The workforce is recruited from the same workforce as the UK owned manufacturers could recruit from.

The foreign owned manufactureres have disposed of the previous senior management and, unlike most of their UK owned predecessors, invested massively in factories.

Many people might logically conclude that the evidence indicates a problem with the previous owners and senior management.

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I'm confused.. what does it do?

Ok, I get that, it "simulates", but what does it simulate?

It just sounds like a bunch of buzzwords.

Data mining! Simulation!

Erm.. ok?

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