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back to article Doctor Who? 12th incarnation sought after Matt Smith quits

Matt Smith has announced he'll be handing over the keys to the Tardis at the end of this year, leaving Doctor Who fans plenty of time to speculate over just who will step into the Time Lord's shoes. Smith will bow out in a "spectacular" 2013 Christmas special, after four years as the 11th Doctor. He said: "Doctor Who has been …

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Anonymous Coward

New Dr.

Is John Hurt too obvious?

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Re: New Dr.

It's a very demanding show to work on. Long days and lots of night shoots. Not sure if I was his age I'd want to do it long term. I have first hand info that one recent short lived Doctor found it very hard going.

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Re: New Dr.

Apparently since the current Dr. knows who he is (the Hurt character) it is a past re-incarnation that didn't quite fit into the 'Dr' persona.

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Re: New Dr.

Too much knees-bent-running-around for Hurt I fear.

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Re: New Dr.

Is John Hurt still alive?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: New Dr. @Shagbag

"Is John Hurt still alive?"

Going by his web page, Wikipedia and IMDB - yes.

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Re: New Dr.

I believe Mr Hurt was the 'unseen' Doctor - the one who saw to the destruction of the Daleks and caused the timelords to be lost in time/space. That is why he was locked away within the Doctor's memories: He did the unthinkable and so is the greatest shame of the Doctor.

So yes, he's a previous incarnation and that throws out the 12th Doctor concept: Matt Smith is the current incarnation but while the 12th to play the Doctor, he is the unspecified incarnation on the Doctor's life.

It's all timey-wimey, I'm sure.

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Re: New Dr.

I for one would look forward to Mr. Hurt as the doctor. I envisage 3 paths. 'Alien - Kane', 12th Time Lord is the thing that bursts out, starts killing all civilisation with the Tardis, even the Dalek turn into refugees, that enter an alliance with the humans. 'V for Vendetta - Sutler', comes to Earth takes over the 3rd Reich, leads it to victory, humans then spread through the galaxy, 'purifying' it in a reign of tyranny, not unlike 'In a mirror, darkly – Enterprise’. Last but not least, '1984 Winston' captured and brainwashed by Ingsoc, isn’t sure if he’s with the Daleks or against them, ends up wiping out humanity with them, realises this to be a mistake, gets rid of Dalek’s and Cybermen too, more atonement and just making sure. Ends up sad and lonely, shoots self, expressing love for Big Brother.

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Re: New Dr.

"Matt Smith is the current incarnation but while the 12th to play the Doctor, he is the unspecified incarnation on the Doctor's life."

Correct. In some versions of the canon, the Doctor absorbed the regeneration energy of the Time Lords during the end of the Time Wars and had passed through a large number of regenerations before reappearing in the current series (there's also the issue of one villain in earlier series being an older, eviller incarnation of the Doctor.)

In any case, it's been stated that the John Hurt regeneration _didn't_ do what he did in the name of the Doctor. His introduction is a good hint about where the series is likely to go though.

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Re: New Dr.

I only get into Doctor Who recently but have begun to get more familiar with the inner plots and so on of one of the most intricate television series still to air.

To describe John Hurt as a previous "Doctor," and given the increased focus on the Doctor himself (and his past) during Matt Smith's time ("The Pandorica Opens" and "The Name of the Doctor", for starters), I would imagine Series 8 (which will now include the 11th official Regeneration) is going to start getting seriously edgy. I have to wonder if the Doctor won't just end up crossing his own timeline (again) but end up ENTANGLED in it (as in, given no choice but to crisscross it again and again). That would make for a plot where practically anything goes. Any bets?

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Pint

Re: New Dr.

"It's a very demanding show to work on."

My heart bleeds.

Giz a job. I can do that.

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Re: New Dr.

If he’s got the stamina, I think Bill Nighy would make a great Doctor. I think we need an ‘older’ Doctor next time round - Matt Smith was too boyish and petite. They might as well have cast a sperm in the role.

If Nighy could bring the same intensity and vibrancy to the role as he did for Victor (a vampire) in the Underworld films, it could make the Doctor a darker, more fearsome character. As opposed to the rather soppy, underwhelming portrayal by Matt Smith.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: New Dr.

Some people need to realise this is only a TV program..... It's science FICTION folks.

Still I will miss Matt Smith as he has been one one the better Doctors, in my view better than Tennant and in a par with Eccleston.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: New Dr.

The next one will be an ethnically and politically correct Doctor and a woman.......

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Pint

Re: New Dr - "might as well have cast a sperm in the role"

Quite. As a wise, deep-thinking but eccentric 900 year-old Time Lord he would make a very good spoilt teenage brat on a moronic American family sitcom. Throw in the ludicrous 'prepubertal' Pond and the show became totally unwatchable for me. I had hopes for Clara as she seemed interesting, but has so far acted like Pond playing the Cheshire Cat. The recent sighting of the truly wondrous Mrs Who has persuaded me to watch again; perhaps she will return now that her husband's Babbling Teenage American Idiot phase is finally over. Whatever replaces this please let it be a Doctor with depth and edge and intellect. And properly eccentric rather than just fatuous.

Or has this whole period been a sort of 450 year flashback to the Time Lord's Medallion-Man Mid-Life Crisis, and I have completely missed the subtlety of it?

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Re: New Dr.

John hurt could be the Valeyard.. The Valeyard wasn't a full reincarnation he was somewhere betweeen the 12th and final regeneration, and the doctor has always worried he has the potential to become that person.

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Re: New Dr.

@ 0765794e08

Bill Nighy - yes please! Unfortunately I think we're going to see another young doctor because they seem pretty settled on having romantic overtones between every doctor and assistant pairing nowadays.

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Re: New Dr.

Worst Doctor ever!

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Re: New Dr - "might as well have cast a sperm in the role"

If they pick another young actor, how long before he/she starts asking the Cybermen for a Farley's Rusk ?

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Gimp

Pertwee

They'd never do it, but go and look at a recent picture of Sean Pertwee. He's the absolute spitting image of his Dad (less hair) when he first took on the role.

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Re: Pertwee

BBC News article does mention Sean Pertwee as being a possibility. Then again they also do list Tom Cruise and Billie Piper as (admittedly more remote) possibilities, so perhaps they're just pulling names out of a hat!

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Re: Pertwee

I was gonna post 'Sean Pertwee' but as you beat me to it....

He'd make a superb gritty badass Doctor for sure, though I think he was offered the job around the tennant (maybe smith) selection time and wasn't up for it.

Anyway the bigwigs in production will want someone who can appeal to the yoof and won't want anyone getting duffed up by a gritty Pertwee (Tom Baker was the most physical Doctor IIRC and that was like 30+ years ago).

Grint and Tovey. Not Doctor material. Though nor was Sylvester McCoy...

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Re: Pertwee

Tom Cruise? _REALLY_?

Bloody hell, are they trying to get everyone to save electricity by turning the box off?

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Re: Pertwee

A bit of older school writing wouldn't go amiss either. the new episodes try too hard to be deep and meaningful, far too happy clappy for my tastes. Perhaps I am old? Perhaps I should be the new Doctor!

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Trollface

Re: Pertwee

Tom Cruise - discards his sonic screwdriver in favour of his laser-bright cheesy grin. Blasting around space/time crowing "I feel the need - the need for speed". Scary.

(Troll icon as it too has a cheesy grin....)

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Re: Pertwee

And jumping on the Tardis' sofa. Actually, Matt Smith does sometimes remind me of the bonkers Scientology Tom Cruise when he's off on one of his irritatingly twee "Humans are brilliant!" moments.

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Coat

Re: Pertwee

I've had this conversation before, in a pub after several beers.

If you want a gritty, "gets sh1t done" Doctor, I elect Philip Glenister (aka Gene Hunt). Despite the mass hilarity which ensued, the idea coincides with an older, tougher Doctor with fewer "emo" issues.

Also: the Tardis could become an Audi Quattro.

<<< Mine's the flame-retardant one.

Colin

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Re: Pertwee

> I elect Philip Glenister

I concur. It would certainly be different.

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12th?

I thought that 12 was the limit...

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Re: 12th?

More than 13 is POSSIBLE just inadvisable according to WHo lore. The master was up to 15 or 16 at least.

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Re: 12th?

12 regenerations, i,e. 13 'lives' apparently. That said, I'm sure they'll find time paradox loopholes and magical gadgets to reset ...

My memory is hazy on the early series, but wasn't one of the Doctor's regenerations stolen by the Master, and another, future, regeneration some evil entity?

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@EddieD

thanks for saying that - I thought it was just me that thought that.

Back in the 70s/80s, wasn't the reason given for the Masters terrifying appearance (the story where the Doctor goes back to Gallifrey to run for president) that he had forced regenerations, and gone beyond his 12th ?

Presumably the 12-limit regeneration will go the way of the prime directive ....

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Re: 12th?

The Valeyard was the evil end of the Doctor. The 13th I believe.

They'll Deus Ex it out :)

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Bod

Re: 12th?

The limit was lifted in a comment on one of the Sarah Jane Adventures as I remember. Basically said he could regenerate hundreds of times now.

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Re: @EddieD

Since all the other Time Lords are dead/trapped in the void, they'll find some MacGuffin related to that to let him carry on regardless.

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Re: 12th?

As i recall, Romana could regenerate indefinitely and at will without problem, and did so for vanity's sake.

The Doctor also held the presidential post, complete with the scepter et al that the Master then stole in order to reset his regenerations (Dr Who and the Deadly Assassin was the story, I believe, or at least was part of the story chain). So even according to WHO lore, 13 and beyond is quite possible, and there is a very easy fudge to allow for Dr Who to continue regenerating for as long as the show is popular and still hold true to the old WHO lore.

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Re: 12th?

Nevertheless, the Who lore puts twelve regenerations as the measuring stick for Time Lords. But due credit to good writing with intentional vagueness. Going back to "Trial of a Time Lord", I recall the Master describing the Valeyard as having formed somewhere between the Doctor's 12th and final incarnation (a misleading hint—cheeky, but I like it). There is a lot of hints and so on (some from the Doctor himself) that the Doctor's incarnation limit is somewhere greater than 12. But given the lore, I would think they're going to start flirting with the thought more and more as time passes: perhaps increasingly dropping clues and tidbits. I'm pretty sure such tidbits will be a draw for any serious fan.

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Re: 12th?

River poured all her unused regeneration energy into him. We don't know exactly what it did. He'll pass 13 on that excuse.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: 12th?

Not quite. Romana was in the process of regeneration during that episode, so she had not yet completed the process, and was able to change. After a short period of time, she was "locked in" to her choice.

It's the same idea as a later episode, where the Doctor's hand is cut off right after he regenerates. He then claims that because he's within 24 hours of the regeneration, he is "lucky" and regrows the missing hand.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: 12th?

507 I believe.

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Re: More than 13 is POSSIBLE just inadvisable according to WHo lore.

They're about to run into a real life time paradox problem. Way back when Colin Baker was The Doctor it was established that the 13th (last according to canon at the time) incarnation was every bit as evil as the Master. And that he'd been offered all the previous regenerations if he could convict Baker in Trial of a Time Lord.

Not that this sort of problem is exactly new. After all, nobody could ever possibly need more than 640KB of memory on a computer, or even more than a couple dozen computers in the whole world. And after their brilliant idea of regeneration to bring in a new actor, who could possibly need another 11 actors for the role?

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Re: 12th? Dr Song?

Perhaps it will enable him to regenerate as a sharp, sexy, fascinating, highly intelligent woman, which will make a refreshing change after four years as a babbling, witless, teenaged American Soap Opera Idiot.

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Re: 12th? Dr Song?

This was supposed to be in reply to Mycho further up the thread.

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Gimp

Re: @EddieD

It's not a hard limit anyway. Go back to The Five Doctors and the Timelords were going to give The Master a new "set" of regenerations.

Also the "barkers" have long debated the meaning of the mind battle sequence in The Brain Of Morbius. Are the faces shown pre-Hartnell regenerations or previous regenerations of Morbius? It's unclear and used to get the fanboys quite worked up on Usenet!

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Re: More than 13 is POSSIBLE just inadvisable according to WHo lore.

@Tom 13: Going back to "Trial of a Time Lord", I wish to clarify that scene. You're describing the Valeyard, which according to the Master was "an amalgamation" of the darkest aspects of the Doctor's nature. It's not so much an incarnation of the Doctor but rather some kind of offshoot (like the Doctor clone produced from the severed hand). Furthermore, the Master's description of the Valeyard's genesis was left very subtly vague: "somewhere between your 12th and final incarnations." Note there was no number given to the "final" incarnation. The regeneration to Twelve simply means the Valeyard's genesis could emerge at any time beyond that point, though I would think for the sake of canon continuity the question of his origins will be addressed sooner rather than later: if not in this incarnation then in the next one.

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I've said it before.

And I will say it again, NODDY HOLDER! HE WOULD BE GREAT!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I've said it before.

[fx: TARDIS materialises into a snowy, Victorian London.]

[TARDIS doors are flung open from inside and the Doctor looks out]

Dr. W.: It's CHRIIISSSTTTMMMAAASSS!

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Re: I've said it before.

Oh no... and it's not even Friday.

My prediction, as ever, is "Yet Another Rubber Faced" loon. Like the previous few.

Noddy Holder would make it special though!

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Anonymous Coward

And of course tumblr and twitter have already decided that it must be an african-american lesbian transgender furry otherkin who must fill the role and must stay in the role forever otherwise their poor widdle feelings will be hurt. Anyone else is cisfascist scum.

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FAIL

This!

What's the betting that for crappy "diversity's" sake it's going to be Floella Benjamin ... or worse still Whoopi Goldberg...

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