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back to article Minty fresh Linux: Olivia hits the virtual shelves

The Linux Mint project has released version 15 of the desktop that they’re calling the “most ambitious release since the start of the project.” New features in Linux Mint - based on Ubuntu - include elements designed to make management and use easier and smoother. The distro also features a driver manager for installing and …

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Bub

What's an iOS style widget?

I wasn't aware such a thing existed.

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Re: What's an iOS style widget?

Did you not know that Apple invented everything?

;-)

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Anonymous Coward

brings back memories

"customise your log-in screen using HTML5"

get ready for the unclickable button that moves randomly away from your mouse when trying to login!

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Thumb Up

Re: brings back memories

My first ever VB program was a version of this...

I called it Mario.exe and told my friends it was a version of Mario. When they tried to run it it showed them an error message. "We have detected your Penis is too small to play this game. Is your Penis too small?" however hard they tried they could never click the no button.

The joys of youth!

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Re: brings back memories

>My first ever VB program was a version of this...

Wow young un then assuming first program was in VB. My first program was in BASIC too but it was loaded off a ROM at boot time and the IDE consisted only of a console full screen text editor. Still I am not all that old. Probably get some old timer on here that will tell you about the days of true core memory and the display being limited to a line printer only.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: brings back memories

"Probably get some old timer on here that will tell you about the days of true core memory and the display being limited to a line printer only"

Not quite, but we DID have a lab colour spectrum analyser which ran off an 8" floppy and only had a teletype (keyboard + printer) as output. Which came in very handy, because what else are you going to use when you run out of Yahtzee forms(*) during a long and boring nightshift (copier was broken)...

(*) Yes, we played games using paper :)

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Windows

Definition of Frustration...

"Probably get some old timer on here that will tell you about the days of true core memory and the display being limited to a line printer only"

Playing Adventure on a DEC LSI-11, with mag tape cartridge as your only storage medium. The cries of "Oh, SHIT!" when you (mis) typed "E" for "East" when you meant "W", and had to wait for the tape to search, so it could tell you after a few minutes "You can't go that way". One guy completed the game that way. Took a month.

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Re: brings back memories

"Wow young un then assuming first program was in VB."

It wasn't my first program, just my first VB program.

I too spend many hours copying games from a book then searching for my typo when it wouldn't run.

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Meh

Not really sure why they bothered...

...seeing as it's only going to be supported until next January - it hardly seems worth the effort seeing as v14 will be supported until April.

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Re: Not really sure why they bothered...

Yes i am sticking with Linux mint 13 for now as this is the long term supported version so supported until 2017 but i will probably install in in a VM to see what its like

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Re: Not really sure why they bothered...

One of the reasons would be to gauge response from users as to whether the product they produce meets needs/expectations. They have a very good history of actually listening to what users say and do make changes based on these responses. This means that their LTS versions are worth hanging on to for the support period.

Compare and contrast with other OSes (and that includes Linux flavours) where the response when users dislike a new feature/methodology tends to be more based on 'tough'

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Mushroom

mint is really doing things no linux has done before

it's incredible to see it in action, but mint is finally pushing linux to the point where it's acceptable for daily use by non technical people, by including more and more tools, getting the thing off the ground without requiring the terminal and stupid commands that only people like me or you understand.

this might actually be the second distribution (ubuntu was the first) to focus on the user and actually work towards supporting them and the first to actually accomplish a general good feeling about it's current direction (since people seem to hate unity and ubuntu since it tried it's search engine tricks).

ubuntu seems to just break every two weeks, sound stops working, graphics stops working, sometimes packages fail to install, it's a constantly drip drip drip of problems, that combined with unity, which is awful...

no other distribution has come close to this, none and yes, I already know about your favourite and it's crap, I've quite literally tried all the big major players, ubuntu, fedora, red hat linux, centos, debian, mint, sabayon, bodhi, they all tried and to be honest, all of them failed within hours, broke in some way or had missed the point completely of trying to be user friendly. all the minor players? who gives a rats all, nobody uses it anyway

not that any of this matters, linux already "arrived on the desktop".....it's called android and it's eating linux for breakfast....

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Re: mint is really doing things no linux has done before

"mint is finally pushing linux to the point where it's acceptable for daily use by non technical people"

Yup, so long as they're trapped in a nightmarish past where user interfaces never made it beyond Windows 95.

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Stop

Re: mint is really doing things no linux has done before

In the past two months, I've installed Linux Mint 13 (Maya - MATE) on my very old laptop, my new laptop, my Eee netbook and my old Desktop (with old twin head Nvidia Quadro graphics card). Until then, I was a total Linux virgin but it went well ....... except for the things that didn't.

The pop-out side panels were great, just like the XP pop-out menu bars, except that after you logoff and restart, the icons (and the separator bars especially) decide to migrate to a different positon, sometimes. If you use the non-expanded option on the right hand panel, it decides to get into bed with and overlay the left hand panel on next start-up.

The updates, which every sensible person accepts, kill the Nidia Quadro twin head card. The forums have lots of amazingly complicated advice about how to get the card working, but I finally figured out that the best way is to do a fresh install and block any update called 'nouvaux' or 'Nvidia'.

The Caja file manager locks up, falls over and eats CPU time and memory if you ask it to copy too many files, especially over a network. This is mentioned on the official forum, and gets the response, "Caja works fine on my computer". I solved this by finding out about Nautilus and installing then using it. (Caja is an 'improved' version of Nautilus but I fail to see how it could be.)

If you try to set VLC as the preferred application for video files, where VLC is offered as an option, it still uses Banshee to play video. The way round this is to select Custom and then specify VLC as the Custom command. This applies to other user preference settings as well.

You can't copy a file from a network location onto the desktop. You have to copy to a local drive first then copy from local drive to the desktop.

Thunderbird does not work properly on Mint 13, I won't go into details. It might be Thunderbird's fault, it might be Mint's fault. These problems are common across all my four installations (except the twin head video one).

I'm very impressed by the structure and principles of Linux, because I'm the sort of person who has the time and ability to find out about it and do 'experiments'. I'm impressed by the way the Linux devotees spend time and effort to improve the arcane and occult aspects of file systems and all sorts of esoteric stuff.

I'm not impressed by the way the 'small' but obvious problems seem to be ignored in favour of doing lots of 'cool and cutting edge' things.

'Normal people', who are used to Windows 7, etc, will not be impressed and will think it is clunky and amateurish and definitely not ready for the desktop.

Edit: I nearly forgot:- The amazing adventures of getting drivers for printers, etc. It's a challenge but I got my Dell laser printer and my old Epson scanner working fine, eventually. I am bloody minded enough to slog through that but not many people would be.

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Pint

Re: mint is really doing things no linux has done before

"..all of them failed within hours, broke in some way or had missed the point completely of trying to be user friendly"

How did you manage to break CentOS 6.x as a matter of interest? I've had a good bash at it, and I am a British Standard Idiot, and I have not succeeded yet.

PS: beer to mint developers and all who manage and contribute to Linux distributions.

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Re: mint is really doing things no linux has done before

"Yup, so long as they're trapped in a nightmarish past where user interfaces never made it beyond Windows 95"

Better then a dystopian future. where your 27" monitor has the same UI as a 3" phone.

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small files in caja

The Caja file manager locks up, falls over and eats CPU time and memory if you ask it to copy too many files, especially over a network...

I'd guess that your small files are image files caja (as any other gui file manager if set to) tries to preview. It will consume cpu to resize the pics. Just make view the list instead of icons.

As a matter of fact, when you google for cpu consumption and 'file manager' first thing that pops up is Windows 7 and VIsta ;-)

gvfs used to consume cpu when idle, however it has been fixed lately. Also may I suggest the orthodox file managers, like mc (using fish instead of gvfs) I myself find emacs dired and tramp to be quite nice (make sure use to use rsync for tranfering files in tramp). rsync (or mc) is what I use for recursive copy of the complicated directory and file structures.

'Normal people', who are used to Windows 7, etc, will not be impressed and will think it is..

Normal people are very well ware of the Windows problems of malfunctioning drivers, slow file manager, "slow Internet" and overall sluggishness due to the fragmented fs, dirty registry and aged OS (wtf is an aged OS??!!) Did we mention malware and AV bogging down the system?

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Re: mint is really doing things no linux has done before

>Caja is an 'improved' version of Nautilus but I fail to see how it could be.

....they're aiming for more user-friendly rather than improved per se - it feels simpler and has some nice (possibly even vaguely safe) features for folk who need a gui for administrative file management.

.... the issue list is legion, so I think it's disingenuous to imply they are not hammering this - it's also kind of a tricky undertaking - cf Windows explorer which still can't keep directory listings fresh, estimate transfer time or prompt for conflict intervention in advance despite several million hours of developer time.

>'Normal people', who are used to Windows 7, etc, will not be impressed and will think it is clunky and amateurish and definitely not ready for the desktop.

Probably true, it feels minimalist and lacks the 'Aero' gloss of recent Windows, but the vast majority of new Mint users are escaping Unity/Ubuntu - and it really is exactly what they want.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: mint is really doing things no linux has done before @dz-015

Hey Windows fanboy (or troll),

I would keep real quite about GUI's if I were you given the shit state of the Windows 8 GUI. I'd rather have the programming interface of Babbages's Difference Engine than the uncoordinated mess currently offered by Microsoft.

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Headmaster

Re: mint is really doing things no linux has done before

Android is built on Linux.

0/10 go to the bottom of the class.

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FAIL

Re: mint is really doing things no linux has done before

You mean th the same was as 98 ~ 7, or were you banging on about how great TIFKAM was?

As for Mint looking like Win95. its apperent that you Sir have no clue about what you are talking about.

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Re: mint is really doing things no linux has done before

you know what....people LIKE that.....lots of people in fact....enough to spawn an entire distro and get it into the top of the charts....

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Anonymous Coward

Re: mint is really doing things no linux has done before

That would be the windows 95 that is generally considered to be the epitome if good user-interface design? The one that set the standard for the PC for nearly 15 years? The one that everyone keeps wanting to return to with every new iteration of microsoft "improvements" to their OS?

That windows 95?

Huh.

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Re: mint is really doing things no linux has done before

Ah, the Windows 95 interface that's such a great example of how MS manage to make a poor copy of something innovated by others. In this case the British RISC OS desktop.

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Re: mint is really doing things no linux has done before

It's built on the Linux kernel, but it's definitely not the normal GNU user land for the most part. Bionic instead of glibc, busybox instead of coreutils, mksh instead of bash, etc.

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Pint

«... but the vast majority of new Mint users

are escaping Unity/Ubuntu - and it really is exactly what they want.» I can testify to that - after Mr Shuttleworth decided to force the Unity desktop on innocent and not so innocent Ubuntu users, I defected to using the Cinnamon desktop on various Ubuntu releases. Some five days ago I decided, at last, to test it on Mint 15 «Olivia» and immediately fell in love with the distro. If not necessarily «exactly» what I want, as close as makes no never-minds. Kudos to Clement Lefebvre and the other developers !...

Henri

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Too bad...

Linux Mint outgrew my little netbook: installation on 4 Gb is not practical anymore. Fare well Mint, welcome Bodhi.

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Re: Too bad...

Bodhi's fine but I prefer Peppermint for a netbook.

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Re: Too bad...

Try Mint LXDE

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Re: Too bad...

Mint LXDE hardly leaves any space for applications. Peppermint looks interesting, but if I change again it'll probably be for CrunchBang -- returning to the Debian experience after more than a decade of wandering :).

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P_0

Re: Too bad...

Or try Lubuntu. WOrks fine on my old netbook.

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Long time since I tried Linux but Mint 15 Is great

Installed it on Tuesday and am really impressed! Install an my Lenovo I5 Laptop was smooth as silk. and very smooth in use everything seems to be there. Connected to the web with Firefox and Thunderbird and was fairly easy to attach to my wifi Epson. Using it all the time now and haven't bothered going back to Windows 7.

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Anonymous Coward

Thumbs Up

Upgraded from Mint 11 about 10 days ago to 14 as I wanted to run some newer progs even though Mint 11 has been rock solid for years.

It's great. I haven't got round to playing with compiz and 3D desktop this time, it was on my Mint 11 install and made windows look tired.

No problems copying networked files to desktop using an SMB NAS.

Firefox isn't as hungry on Mint 14 and I've only restarted it twice in the last 10 days even though it has 50 tabs open.

Quisk seems to part company with pulse audio which is a pain, but not had time to troubleshoot yet as this is a real work workstation, but I doubt ordinary users aren't doing much with SDR to be bothered with quisk. USB radio > quisk > fl-digi was a breeze though, virtually no setup which was different to Centos 6 and Mint 11.

Dual head NVidia setup was not good using the official driver from NVidia though, it's been OK since setup, might have been different if I'd read the docs an used the inbuilt driver setup routine.

Although it doesn't look as fancy as my old compiz setup as I've only got thew standard basic theme, its solid, 5.3GB of 6GB memory used and no swap, even with 21 applications running across two LCD panels. KVM, RDP and SSH sessions to numerous servers and a windows XP VM for some management systems from vendors can't be arsed to develop without MS lock-in.

Oh, Evolutions a bit of a porker and you can't change account types after setup. IMAP+ not good either, swapped back to vanilla IMAP.

Thumbs up, thanks Mint Guys.

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bed
Thumb Up

A vote for Mint

After I replaced a perfectly usably WinXP PC because there were no Win7 drivers for the various peripherals, I still had a perfectly usable PC on which I tried various mixes of Linux and settled on Mint at the least irritating. About the only thing stopping it becoming the default PC again is the lack of (proper, not IMAP or POP3) integration with Exchange Server via Office 365 (yes, I know Evolution and Thunderbird should, but I have not much success) and relying on Outlook Web Access isadmitting defeat. Still, a handy box to relearn all that bash stuff I used to do when I did it for a living.

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Re: A vote for Mint

Tried the ExQuilla plugin for Thunderbird? The Exchange Server needs to have EWS enabled, so it's got to be Exchange Server 2007 or later.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: A vote for Mint

Mint 15 is great! It's now in my main home PC. Only thing you need to remove from the default install is Banshee, it's not stable (I am not being dogmatic about Mono, it just keeps on crashing). Rhythmbox can have a bit fewer features but it works great.

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This has been gathering my attention. I'm planning to migrate and it seems to be down to either Mint or Xubuntu (give XFCE props for maintaining a middle-of-the-road standing--not too flashy but still quite functional). Any thoughts on which is best or whether it's a case of "to each his own"?

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Mint is a distro

not a DE. Both Mint (as well the Debian Edition which I prefer) and -buntus offer quite a selection of DEs. There is an exception for Unity on Mint and Cinnamon/Mate on Ubuntu. But that could be circumvented by installing additional repositories. I am very fond of the Mate DE, but won't advise against XFCE, (LXDE, fluxbox etc) Other options are KDE, Cinnamon. Those might need a little more resources though than XFCE and Cinnamon despite its esthetic appeal still lacks some useful applets, IMHO.

For the Mint based on Ubuntu later on there will be images with KDE and XFCE, like it had happened to Nadia, if I understand that correctly.

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Re: Mint is a distro

"Any thoughts on which is best..."

Sure, Wheezy, but you didn't list it.

Assuming Debian is more Deb than Ian, then I'm all out of niceties for Debian's pit stop, bastard distros. Obviously you have a choice and flavor is nice, but it has been the fragmentation of the mainline distros that have put the brakes on Linux for home users, even more than Windows. Now that we have bastard spawns of each of the mains, it will take even longer for the uptake. Again, it is nice to have a choice between something like RedHat, Android, Slackware, etc., but these micromanaged versions are weighing the uptake down.

People go on and on and on about installing software when they mention various distros features. It seems people are more interested in the choice of a distro just to install software, than they are in actually using it. Do people sit around all day retarded like and install software so much they need bad devices to do so? For example, if you really need PPA, then you need to rethink what the hell you're doing. Or better yet, think about what major role PPA represents in other systems like MS Windows, is it even legitimate?

Debian and its bastard children are all workers that can handle the same jobs, so why not choose the stablest of them all? Pick a bus, get on board, take a seat, and let the bus speed up. All these pit stop distros keep slowing everyone down.

Wheezy.

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Re: Mint is a distro

Mint DE is great as long you never have to install a 3rd party non repository app on it. Saw the hoops I had to jump through to install the steam client and was like back to regular mint for me (not technically difficult but long term had pain the ass written all over it).

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It is a matter of taste

Xfce is minimalist and fast. If that's what you like, use it.

I like a little eye candy, as long as its MY eye candy, not whatever the designers decide I am going to have. So I prefer maya.

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Trollface

hmm

Mint is far and away the best linux desktop I have used but it just wasn't good enough to force me to boot into into it instead of Mac OS X for the everyday stuff I do. Considering though how Apple is desperately trying to force obsolescence on my Mac Pro (need hacks for Mountain Lion) and make me buy another, the day might be coming when this is not true. So sad hobbyists support my Mac better than Apple does.

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Happy

Re: hmm

Yes. the better half's power PC MAC G5 is unsupportable more or less.

she would go for a linux with an OS9 style window manager like a shot..

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Megaphone

Re: hmm

>Yes. the better half's power PC MAC G5 is unsupportable more or less.

>she would go for a linux with an OS9 style window manager like a shot..

And I am sure with something like yellow dog she can find it if someone looks. My Mac Pro is still Intel and not nearly as old and is still decent even for gaming. In fact both can be used for most everyday stuff which is why PC sales are so slow these days (even 5 or 6 yo machines are overkill for most people). The sad part is like I said the poor support Apple offers for all their computers (and iPADS, no IOS 6 for 2 year old at time iPAD 1 wow). I guess that is what happens when you make your money on hardware and not on software. You obsolete things as fast as you can.

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Linux

Mint is really getting there.

I've been a Linux and OpenBSD user for probably ten years now. Still use Windows where I have to, but have always opted for Linux on my daily-use machine(s).

Ubuntu have lost the plot with Unity and that drove me to Linux Mint after a long, long time of using it.

Mint just seems smoother, more logical and is very stable. I get the odd glitch, as often as I would on Windows, but the difference is I can rectify them without a full reboot required.

It just has that feel of a distro that has been designed in the one true way of do only what is needed and do it well. It doesn't pretend to be anything it's not and isn't trying to break boundaries to come up with the next big thing. It's just an easy to use, not asthetically unpleasant, solid distro.

I'm a little disappointed that I can't upgrade 13 to 14, but have backed up my home folder and will do a clean install. It's usually good practice from time to time, for any power user, anyway.

Linux Mint, in my opinion, is THE user friendly, user focused Linux distribution for the desktop that is suitable for the masses. Give it a few more years and maybe a bit of financial backing and, if they stick to their principles, it could be a viable market leader for non-Windows desktops.

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Re: Mint is really getting there.

meant "can't upgrade 14 to 15", not 13 to 14.

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Anonymous Coward

Mint looks really nice

and when the day comes that Visual Studio 2010, my library of over 600 Steam games and various other programs run without incident using Wine, I'll switch operating systems.

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Re: Mint looks really nice

If you're a developer you want Fedora. Horses for courses etc...

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Re: Mint looks really nice

Well I run legacy windows apps in virtual box. Screen update is a bit slow, so possibly no use for games, but its adequate for 3D/2D graphics.

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