A New Zealand court has handed over all the evidence against Kim Dotcom to the Megaupload founder because it reckons the warrants used in the 2012 raid were illegal. A high court in the country has decided the police have to give Dotcom a copy of everything they picked up that's relevant to the US investigation, including all …
how much uncopied evidence has already been offshored to the feds without any due diligence?
"I have concluded the appropriate remedy is to require the police to conduct the sorting exercise they should long since have undertaken," Judge Helen Winkelmann said in a statement.
I wonder how long that will take them.
Is there something in US law that prohibits evidence being admissible in court, if it has been acquired in an illegal raid (or is it just crappy law shows talking?)
If so, would the US defer to the New Zealand judgement and throw out the case, or make their own judgement and probably deem it legal?
Things get so confusing when trying to impose one country's law to another country's citizens. Especially when that citizen isn't in the former country.
>>Is there something in US law that prohibits evidence being admissible in court, if it has been acquired in an illegal raid (or is it just crappy law shows talking?)
Yeah, we do. The Fourth amendment of the Constitution.
I don't know how or if it applies internationally, or if applies to non-citizens. Since he's a Finnish and German dual citizen resident in a third country accused of breaking a 4th country's laws, it further complicates it.
"The Fourth amendment of the Constitution. I don't know how or if it applies internationally,"
But, but... it's *American Law* goddamnit! It applies all over the world, doesn't it?! ;-)
It applies except when it is convenient not to apply. e.g. at the US borders. The argument is you haven't entered the country yet so the usual due process & laws don't apply.
I'd love to see the Feds try to justify the extradition for violating US laws and not applying other US laws, like the submission of illegally obtained evidence.
A popular misconception. If you arrive at the counter with a valid visa you absolutely have the right to legal process before facing deportation, even non-citizens. If you are properly polite and not a trouble maker you will in all likelihood have no trouble. If you are rude or some sort of problem child you will be evicted.
Unless you opted for a B-whatever Waiver visa. Because the 'waiver" is a waiver of that right. Then you can be held until the next flight and sent back where you came from with no delays for due process. Because you said you didn't need that when you signed the waiver.
If you are talking to someone at a desk who wants to see your passport you have stepped over the yellow (in NY) line that separates Plebobia Incognita from the Land of the Free and are by definition in America. Indeed, if you step back over the line for any reason you may face charges based on fleeing the country.
Back in the 80s we ex pats used to gather in the NY drinkeries to share holiday tales of immigrating at NY. My fave was the person who got into trouble for bringing in a ham sandwich - that they had been given on the Pan-Am flight. When informed of her transgression and the intent to Get Serious about this illicit meat importation she jumped back over the line so she wasn't in America any more, whereupon she was informed there would now be a new raft of charges and a supervisor was called. However, this fiendish woman wasn't yet finished in her perfidious perfidy - she crammed the entire sandwich into her mouth and chewed madly so that by the time a supervisor had arrived in theater the evidence was gone. Then she jumped back over the line and smiled sweetly. So they let her in. These days I'd be able to see this amazing feat of mandibular might on youtube, but then it was only available as a rerun on the airport closed circuit camera system.
American law enforcement seems to think so.
The IRS would also like to make US tax law applicable worldwide.
It's all rather embarrassing to be a US citizen these days. If I pay the exit tax, I can change that.
Please tell that to the people who are US citizens and regularly get harassed when coming back into the country and have electronic devices seized and searched without due process. There is at least one security researcher who now either doesn't travel with electronic devices or travels with them wiped clean and he downloads the contents from the Internet once he's past the grubby mitts of the TSA
I like New Zealand
The 24/7 noise from NZ will be deafening
It's like a breath of fresh air seeing a member of the judiciary sticking it to the government, especially where the FBI is involved.
Shows, in stark relief, the proper way and the American way.
The deference the New Zealand goverments gives their judiciary is remarkable, in Britain the minute the government loses one, out come the legally ignorant politico's criticising the judges.
Look at that piece of effluent from Maidenhead, Mad May, she took geography for her BA. And the A doesn't stand for Arts but rather the piece of her anatomy she sits on and where she keeps her 'brain'.
The only down side to this is the fact Dotcom will be talking about this 24/7 for months.
Re: The 24/7 noise from NZ will be deafening
"The deference the New Zealand governments gives their judiciary is remarkable" - in fact, our Govt HAS been scrambling to make legal what its intelligence agencies have been doing in this whole sorry mess. Specifically, as a result of publicity generated by Dotcom's case, it has been established that our GCSB ( think tiny, low-budget NSA) has been spying on NZ citizens, something it is expressly forbidden to do. Solution? Change the law, to let them do so in future.
Proving once again that Eric Holder is the African American Alberto Gonzalez (hack political operative who doesn't know crap about law enforcement and got where he did with buddies and affirmative action). More goodies from the Bush/Obama turd sandwich.
I'm reminded of this
If you fight a pig you'll discover two things:
You've got covered in mud.
The pig is enjoying it.
Re: I'm reminded of this
Yeah ... except that's not mud.
Re: I'm reminded of this
And the pig might be really enjoying it.
Not a big deal IMO
He gets all the information anyway so this ain't no big deal IMO. As log as he's extradited and prosecuted, all is good with the world. He knows full well that he was illegally distributing copyright protected materials and like anyone else who violates copyright law he is going to be held accountable.
There is nothing new about this as every civilized country recognises copyright law and punishes those who violate it. Japan has the correct approach with mandatory prison time and large fines for all who hack, pirate or faciliatate piracy.
Re: Not a big deal IMO
Whether Dotcom is guilty or innocent is quite irrelevant here. An illegal search was conducted, possessions were illegally taken in that search, and the agents of a foreign power were allowed to at least take part in that raid (or even to direct the raid/search if you believe some reports). In addition some reports have said that at least some of the aforementioned illegally taken possessions have already left NZ for "the land of the free".
It seems that the US government, FBI and other agencies see "land of the free" as meaning "land of the free to fuck over any other country or person in that country however and whenever we feel like it".
"however and whenever we feel like it"
Nicely put, I couldn't help but think that if Kim was English he'd have already stood trial by now and be in federal 'pound-me-in-the-ass' prison.
Thanks Tony, it's no wonder they love you in America. Just another way you boned the British public.
Dear Kim it is with regret that you won on this point
How ever in the True Spite of American Justice we fully intend to comply with all Court Ruling
" Please be Aware that your Evidence will be Available for and only by Personal Collection from our Legal Department of Justice c.o
Guantanamo Bay Naval Base, Cuba."
Hope this pleases you and we hope your visit soon to Pick up your Paperwork and Property
Commandant McRestu on the behalf of D O J Guantanamo Bay Naval Base, Cuba.
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