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back to article Anonymous 'plonks' names, addresses of far-right EDL types on web

Computer-hacking collective Anonymous‬ claims it has leaked online the personal details of the far-right English Defence League's members. The hackers' list - the authenticity of which has not been independently verified - includes the names and addresses of more than 200 supposed members of the controversial protest …

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Anonymous Coward

Ignorance is bliss...

99.9% of the time I forget that the EDL even exists.

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Happy

Re: Ignorance is bliss...

That can't be true. Or the EDL would be happy all the time...

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Anonymous Coward

'Now Anonymous UK has accused the EDL of taking "advantage of moments of fear and terror to spread hatred and animosity"'

And Anonymous renowned for spreading love and peace.

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Please include Theresa May, Ed Milliband and Boris Johnson oh hell and most of the other parasitical politicians who also jumped on the bandwagon taking "advantage of moments of fear and terror to spread hatred and animosity"' by promoting the snoopers charter in response...

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Meeja

I'd also like to pile in the traditional media who went ape-shit about Divvy Cameron going on Holiday, instead of staying home and dealing with the "terror threat". Like they'd pictured him as some kind of spandex wearing superhero able to protect and serve at a moments notice?

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Unhappy

Re: Meeja

The very idea of David Cameron in spandex has put me right off my lunch! I hope you're happy!

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@ Above

Is there not a certain amount of irony in protesting the 'Snoopers charter' presumably on privacy grounds by releasing private information?

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Hrmm

While I really do enjoy seeing someone sticking the boot into wankers like the EDL, there are folks that sign up to forums like theirs to protest against them. Not everyone on that website is a frothing at the mouth nationalist, yet they run the risk of being lumped in with the rest of the English Dickhead League.

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Re: Hrmm

Why would somebody sign to an EDL forum up to protest against them and use their real name?

They (the EDL) aren't exactly know for being reasonable so this seems like an odd suggestion to me, leaving aside the possibility of a hack, I certainly wouldn't trust the site administrators not to disclose my identity on a site like that if I were 'outed' as a none member.

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Trollface

Re: Hrmm

I suspect many people would, given the nature of the internet and the amusement people find in tearing into other people over their (often, easily enflamed) views.

Troll for obvious reasons.

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Online clothing store

I also find it easy to imagine a whole host of student film-makers getting caught up in this -- I can easily see them buying up EDL paraphernalia for shooting topical shorts....

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Anonymous Coward

Now if only Anonymous would do the same sort of thing and expose the details of crazy Islamic extremists.

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How about diasplaying a list of Anonymous's members and telephone numbers as well.

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Big Brother

Duh

I think you missed the point of the collective/rabble/loose association/cells/spotty teenagers/ "Anonymous".

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Re: Duh

I rather think Anonymous have missed that point too.

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Given there are, in reality, so few of them, I imagine that is a rather more difficult task...

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"Now if only Anonymous would do the same sort of thing and expose the details of crazy Islamic extremists."

Don't be silly - that would put the script kiddies in real danger and they don't have the balls for that. Its the same way all the supposed "edgy" commentators, writers and comedians in the media love to stick the boot in to christianity but are too scared to do the same to islam not that they'd ever admit as much. If you asked why they don't they'd just accuse you of being racist (apparently muslims are a race according to the liberal left) in an attempt to deflect attention from their cowardice.

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Flame

"Its the same way all the supposed "edgy" commentators, writers and comedians in the media love to stick the boot in to christianity but are too scared to do the same to islam"

Most comedians - like everyone else with any damn sense - write about what they know. When "sticking the boot in" really means, "I was raised CofE and here are the silly things that happened". Fear is irrelevant and plenty of jokes have been made on Islam but that doesn't fit in with your prefab Daily Mail built worldview so whatever eh?

"If you asked why they don't they'd just accuse you of being racist "

No. See above.

The MailOnline is more your pace - back there with you and leave the thinking to grown-ups.

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Irony

. In one reported case, a York mosque successfully quelled an EDL protest with tea, biscuits and football

You have to love the irony in which the EDL protestors were pacified.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Irony

Which is exactly what should happen. Sit down, pour the tea, break out the biscuits and talk. I doubt that they converted anyone to Islam but it sould have dispelled a few myths.

Maybe next time the EDL types can take the worshippers to the pub?

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Re: Irony

Have you ever seen an EDL member? Most could be quickly pacified with a mildly energetic game of dominoes, let alone a game that involves running around.

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Re: Irony

You want to take followers of a mosque to the pub? Either you're being ignorant or trying to be funny. If you don't know, that's an awful lot of Diet Cokes, given that Islam forbids alcohol.

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Re: Irony

I had the unfortunate occasion to be at a motorway services when they arrived. At first I thought it was a biker's outing as the uniforms looked the same (and there is a massive amount of racism in UK biking, most bikers* IME are xenophobes). Then I noticed the buses and paid more attention to the slogans on their clothing.

I left. Quickly. As I think many others did.

*I said "bikers" not "motorcyclists". Difference.

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Re: Irony

"If you don't know, that's an awful lot of Diet Cokes, given that Islam forbids alcohol."

So does Christianity.

"Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof. [Romans 13:13-14]"

There are other quotes.

And in point of fact, I know Muslims who drink. Much less common than drinking Christians, I grant you that.

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Booze ban

Siggesting we avoid drunkenness is not the same thing as prohibiting alcohol.

I think there's enough in the reports of the actions of Jesus for us to be fairly sure he didn't object to booze outright.

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Re: Irony

I know Muslims who drink, but I am not exactly sure that that makes them Muslim though (in the correct sense, they would certainly identify themselves as it), or they are at least breaking the tenets of their faith by doing so.

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Coat

Re: Irony

" Much less common than drinking Christians"

Muslim vampires are quite rare, yes.

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Devil

Re: Irony

DId he turn his blood into non-alcoholic wine then, or was he having a day off?

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Re: Irony

@Triggerfish

The Koran forbids alcohol from grapes, so technically it's only wine that's off-limits. More to the point, however, trying to say who is and isn't a true practitioner of the faith, from outside the faith, is not very cool. Demanding absolute adherence to scripture just buys in to the extremists viewpoint.

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Re: Irony

In the canteen of my then-workplace I once sat opposite a muslim who was eating bacon. He had an explanation on how it was compatible with Islam. I wasn't paying enough attention to recite it now, but I'm sure most people can explain how their religion is compatible with the things they do anyway.

As for York, the best quote comes in the Imam's interview with GQ when he explicitly invites them to quote him that sensible people think the Taliban are nutters.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Irony

Christianity forbids alcohol? Someone obviously forgot to tell the Irish.

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Holmes

Re: Irony

Technically the Koran forbids a drop of alcohol passing your lips, doesn't say anything about a pint, as a muslim friend of mine once said.

Also its should be easy to Identify EDL members since they all wear the clothing line sold on the website. Wouldn't they?

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Re: Irony

The Koran forbids alcohol from grapes, so technically it's only wine that's off-limits. More to the point, however, trying to say who is and isn't a true practitioner of the faith, from outside the faith, is not very cool. Demanding absolute adherence to scripture just buys in to the extremists viewpoint.

@ Bumpy Cat.

First off can I point out I did not intend to make that implication in the way you seem to be thinking, said I am not sure, at no point did I try and say with any definition say what made someone a true Muslim. In fact I think you will find that I said that many of the Muslims who drink would regard themselves as Muslims.

Re reading the comment about tenets of faith may be misinterpreted that way.

If you thought that apologies, was not what I meant to imply.

As for breaking tenets of the faith.

I may be under a misapprehension the more faithful Muslims I have known tend to shun all alcohol, even to the point we were discussing alternates to alcohol when sharing recipes even if it was only a spoonful distributed amongst a lot of ingredients. They were quite strict on it and it was a no no, the grape more being a metaphor for all alcohol.

I thought because of this it was a strict no no, but one of the things the youths did,

I've met Muslims of all sorts from trainee imams who wont even listen to music. (apparently only religious music is acceptable), however some will argue that's to strict an interpretation.

I've, drank with some, I've smoked with some, I've bought odd substances off a few, been to parties with some and have stayed with Muslims who have not had any objection to their daughters coming out to parties down the road with us.

I just am not sure how Muslim that makes them in the strictest interpretation, if a Jew chomps down on bacon butties are they still Jewish? What the cut off point?

I'd all say they were Muslim though, its never bothered me to much.

Funnily enough the only one I have met who was talking like they were on their way to radicalisation (to a scary degree of fervour), when asked about alcohol in recipes was just a case of; pah its not enough to get drunk on who cares and was probably the least informed of any I have known about their own faith and the real world.

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WTF?

Re: Irony

"You want to take followers of a mosque to the pub? Either you're being ignorant or trying to be funny. If you don't know, that's an awful lot of Diet Cokes, given that Islam forbids alcohol."

Well duh! If there was a clueless fuckwit of the day award on here you'd probably have earned it.

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Re: Irony

>>"If you don't know, that's an awful lot of Diet Cokes, given that Islam forbids alcohol.

>

>So does Christianity.

Does it? Someone better tell all the priests and vicars whats in the communion wine then!

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Re: Irony

@Triggerfish

Yeah, I didn't think you meant it that way, but it read that way and I wanted to clear that up. :)

It's always converts and clueless who take anything to extremes - unfortunately in some mosques there are people who are willing to steer that to violence. I remember reading an interview with one radical female convert to Islam; she said when she converted she told her children that Islam prohibited alcohol. Her eight-year-old daughter asked her "Does that mean you won't drink so much any more, mummy?", and when the woman replied yes, the daughter said "Yay!". Lady, if your eight-year-old daughter is worried about your drinking, the problem is not alcohol, or Western society, it's you.

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Re: Irony

I just am not sure how Muslim that makes them in the strictest interpretation, if a Jew chomps down on bacon butties are they still Jewish? What the cut off point?

The cut off point is when you stop trying.

The pork prohibition existed, in the beginning, because pork is a more dangerous meat to handle and it's only in recent years that we've had the technology to properly prepare and consume it on a casual basis. Does that mean the prohibition should no longer apply? That is a question that can start really long debates, but the short version is that if you think it probably doesn't then you can probably eat pork while remaining a member of a faith that doesn't eat pork. But it's best not to shout about it or you might derail normal conversations into those really long debates until nobody wants to talk to you.

I once asked a Syrian about smoky bacon crisps. You know, the ones meant to taste of bacon but containing no animal products whatsoever. He replied that he would treat it like real pork and make sure his mother never found out.

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Happy

Re: Irony

Specifically those quotes forbid drunkenness, not drinking. Jesus himself was supposed to be popular at parties, he did bring free wine for everyone. You are misapplying scripture to suit your argument which is what the nutjobs do.

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Re: Irony

@Bumpy Cat.

No worries thought I had to as well. :)

Have to agree on the clueless bit, its a strange thing the girl I knew who was quite radicalised had a real cognitive disconnect thing going on.

@Mycho

Agree with where your coming from, that's why I don't really discount the ones who tend to break some of the tenets/laws/whatever as not being Muslim, and yeah I have listened to the debate over whether a teaspoon or so of wine in a recipe is a no no or something that they can be flexible about, it came down about half half, no one became apostate.

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Re: Irony

"...trying to say who is and isn't a true practitioner of the faith, from outside the faith, is not very cool. Demanding absolute adherence to scripture just buys in to the extremists viewpoint."

No, it highlights the hypocrisy of picking and choosing beliefs from your religion that don't clash with modern society's standards.

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Pint

Re: Irony

"I know Muslims who drink."

According to a Kuwaite friend, the man may drink but never the Muslim. Especially when outside of a muslim country ;-)

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Re: Irony

Er, Water into Wine? or Wine into Water? oh, and alcohol != "drunkenness".

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Irony

They're Catholic, not Irish.

But it's surprising, seeing as Catholicism hates everything.

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"Thou shall not speak words I do not want you to speak"

Censorship, be it governments, religions, or organised groups, is censorship. Anonymous are no better than the EDL in that respect. Intimidating the members of EDL is censorship. Vigilante action will go wrong, and has been seen in other places, the wrong people are named.

I don't like what EDL stand for, but I stand by their right to say it. By all means campaign against their arguments. But as soon as you censor, you radicalise.

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Anonymous are probably worse than the EDL. The Anons can read and write for starters....

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"Intimidating the members of EDL is censorship."

And the EDL intimidating KFC staff isn't?

The EDL marching then, by their very nature is censorship under your definition.

So what do we censor?

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@The Jase

Two wrongs do not make a right. But should EDL intimidate the staff at KFC then they stand to be arrested by the police.

Assuming that the protest is valid how about not censoring anybody? One of my objections to anonymous as I understand it is that they will get happily censor any organisation for no particular reason.

In this instance their actions may well have been worse in that by releasing names and addresses they might well have incited vigilante action. Whilst it might be argued that this action is valid against the EDL I would argue otherwise (see two wrongs above). Further to this what happens with a case of mistaken identity?

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Re: @The Jase

I can tell you've never been doxxed. Scary at first, but it amounts to a whole lot of nothing in the end.

I've had enough of the EDL threaten to beat/kill me, I have very little sympathy for them.

If I believed enough in a cause, I'd stand up and be identified for it.

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The problem with guaranteeing free speech is that you can't hold it up as the be all and end all while simultaneously saying that the EDL have the right to say anything they want but Anonymous don't have the right to say that person X is a member of the EDL.

At some point you have to balance the rights of one group against the rights of another. In this case I think the defamation angle is the right one to follow. If Anonymous has misidentified anybody then those people will likely be subject to a heavy adverse reaction. It's the rights of those individuals that should properly restrict the right to free speech.

So, yes, I'm against what Anonymous has done. I'm also against the EDL but that's neither here nor there. But I disagree with what's happened not because I think free speech is an absolute right but rather because I think that limitations are justified in specific limited cases.

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Megaphone

Misunderstanding Free Speech

"The problem with guaranteeing free speech is that you can't hold it up as the be all and end all while simultaneously saying that the EDL have the right to say anything they want but Anonymous don't have the right to say that person X is a member of the EDL."

Free speech doesn't mean I get to take your bank details and publish them for general use. It's commonly understood to mean, "being free to make a political statement no matter what that is". So I could say I believe I should have the undeniable right to publish your bank details but that doesn't mean I can do so and say it's my right because of "free speech". Unless I could argue your personally identifiable details are political but I don't see that as likely to be considered valid.

Anyone else labouring under the idea it's anything else needs to get aboard the clue train.

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