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back to article Stand by for PURPLE KETCHUP as boffins breed SUPER TOMATOES

You might find yourself banging out a blob of PURPLE ketchup onto your bacon sarnie in days come, as scientists report that they may soon have managed to create a type of heliotrope-hued super tomato, superior to the humble red variety known and loved today. “Working with GM tomatoes that are different to normal fruit only by …

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I for one

Welcome our new Indigo Overlords.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebfLWAB8bY4

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Re: I for one

We should not meddle in things only barely understood...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r6WRAK_q8s

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Re: We should not meddle in things only barely understood...

If I followed that maxim then I'd never get anything done!

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Boffin

Re: I for one

Just because you don't understand it, it doesn't mean that those conducting the experiments aren't qualified to do so.

Since the advent of the internet, scientific knowledge is freer than ever. I'd suggest to those who object to genetic modification to actually learn about the science involved before airing their ill-informed objections.

Whilst there are legitimate ethical issues involved, these are focused more on the issues of intellectual property rights; for example if a biotech firm develops a crop which has disease resistance, and sells the seeds to a farmer, they can then charge the farmer if he chooses to hold back seeds from the crop to plant the following year, or prevent him from doing this entirely through restricitve licensing rules. If his crop then cross-pollinates another farmer's un-modified crop, issues around IP ownership can then arise. I believe this has happend in practice, and it constitues a thorny issue, as both the farmer and the producer of the seeds have to make a living.

On the other hand, "I don't understand it, so it must be wrong" is about the most idiotic stance you can take on the issue.

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Re: I for one

I would have included the "Joke Alert!" icon, but did not think it necessary given the link I posted.

Unless there IS a realistic prospect of Bernard Manning pontificating from my salad.

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Anonymous Coward

@Loyal Commenter

"Just because you don't understand it, it doesn't mean that those conducting the experiments aren't qualified to do so."

The problem is that those conducting the research most certainly do not either.

When it comes to assessing the impact of genetically modified organisms on the environment and to those that consume them, the number of variables are simply too great. You're forced into a suck it and see approach which is often rushed or fudged, especially in the US, where anything is possible if your pockets are deep enough and you lobby the right politicians.

For example:

"The Monsanto Protection Act, essentially both written by and benefiting Monsanto Corporation, has been signed into law by United States President Barack Obama. The infamous Monsanto Corporation will benefit greatly and directly from the bill, as it essentially gives companies that deal with genetically modified organisms (GMOs) and genetically engineered (GE) seeds immunity to the federal courts, among other things.

The bill states that even if future research shows that GMOs or GE seeds cause significant health problems, cancer, etc, anything, that the federal courts no longer have any power to stop their spread, use, or sales."

http://www.globalresearch.ca/monsanto-protection-act-signed-by-obama-gmo-bill-written-by-monsanto-signed-into-law/5329388

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Pirate

Re: I for one

Actually, the biggest problem with current GM crops is that these are resistant to more potent herbicides, produced by the same companies. These newer and more powerful herbicides are suspected to be killing the bees and birds and end up in our food as well.

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Re: @Loyal Commenter

The problem is that those conducting the research most certainly do not either.

Certainly anyone who follows current research in genetics and related fields, even in the most cursory fashion, should be aware of just how much theoretical churn there is in the area. Gene expression and other epigenetic mechanisms, for example, are still not well understood - that is, we know quite a lot about some specific cases but have only vague models of the general processes.

Similarly we still don't know nearly enough about gene migration and competition for space in the genome (the sort of thing that was once dismissed as "junk DNA", entirely erroneously, as it turns out). The Starlink debacle showed how dangerous that particular bit of ignorance can be.

And there's always the worry that a GMO food will turn out to produce a novel protein that proves to be an unexpected allergen for a significant number of people, or acts as a dangerous prion. That may be unlikely, but the consequences could be severe.

And, of course, the vast amount of money attached to GMO research threatens scientific integrity, as is true in other areas. Scientists are human and susceptible to a variety of incentives, not all of which lead to favorable behavior.

That's not to say that knee-jerk reactions against GMO research or products is the best alternative either; for one thing, the incentives mean someone will be doing it, so surely we're better off with transparency and informed monitoring rather than panic-induced blanket bans.

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I just had to point out

that the scientific name of the sexual phase of grey mould is "Botryotinia fuckeliana". Snigger.

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Re: I just had to point out

Lol. tinia.

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shelf life.

If my local supermarket, a well known company, is anything to go by, they must keep their tomatoes on a shelf in the dtore room for about 19 days before putting them out for sale.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: shelf life.

As someone who unfortunately works in a supermarket I can confirm this as being true.

Also, if a pack of anything goes out of date its split open and dumped in with the loose items, eg carrots, toms, onions etc. anything you buy 'loose' you cannot guarantee the date at all.

Also good luck getting chilled produce within acceptable temperature limits in summer. If its to warm we get told we are to refuse it, but we never can because that would leave the shelves empty for 24h...

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Ru
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Re: shelf life.

This is definitely the case for meat, too. Askat your supermarket meat counter how long a nice chunk of flesh will last before you have to cook it, and compare that with how long your local normal butcher quotes... we got 2 days and 7 days for a bit of fillet respectively.

There's a price to pay for supermarket logistics, after all.

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Devil

Hmm...

The cynic in me feels that the development process went something like this...

Boffin: "Good news everyone, we've managed to engineer tomatoes with double the usual shelf life."

Marketeer: "But they're purple - nobody will buy purple tomatoes. Well not unless they prevent cancer or something."

Boffin: "I'll see what we can do."

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Hmm...

It could have been worse, they might have started out to make a purple tomato to tempt the "its different" crows, and then discovered it had double the shelf-life

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Anonymous Coward

Boffin: Good news everyone...

... I've invented a device that makes you read this in my own voice?

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Re: Boffin: Good news everyone...

You made the tomato purple? Why not Zoidberg!

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Re: Boffin: Good news everyone...

No Boffin it's not working. I can only hear Professor Farnsworth's voice.

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Re: Boffin: Good news everyone...

Marketeer: "But they're purple - nobody will buy purple tomatoes. Well not unless they prevent cancer or something."

Anyway, if the Dutch can breed purple (and white) carrots and make them orange, why can't we take the tomato back the other way to lovely purpleness? Now we'd all think the original ones were weird.

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Re: Hmm...

nobody will buy purple tomatoes

Except those of us who understand tomatoes, perhaps. Around here, where people grow real tomatoes (not tragic mass-market crap), a wide range of heirloom-variety tomatoes are available - at smaller groceries, farmers' markets, CSAs, a table in someone's driveway with an honor-system collection box... Real tomatoes come in all sorts of colors - red, yellow, orange, green, purple (I can't think why they've missed out blue) - and are often striped. They're quite decorative.

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the key question....

Will it change the taste of a BLT? The lunchtime equivalant of the holy bacon sandwich of legend...

Enquiring minds need to know!

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Re: the key question....

Meh. The problem with a BLT is the LT.

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Re: the key question....

If we're genetically engineering tomatoes, we should fix them so they taste like bacon.

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JDX
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Re: the key question....

We already have beef tomatoes after all.

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Re: the key question....

Can we fix the lettuce while we're at it?

TIA

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Re: the key question....

My ideal daily menu:

Breakfast - Bacon sandwich FOLLOWED by coffee (so the taste of the coffee doesn't overpower the bacon)

Lunch: BLT, lots of B, some shreds of L and a slice of T

Dinner: bacon wrapped chicken with pasta in a cheese and herb sauce

Heart attack to follow soon after supper time

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Re: the key question....@auburnman

"If we're genetically engineering tomatoes, we should fix them so they taste like bacon."

Yay! Veggie BLT's!

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ketchup on a bacon sarnie?

Sacrilege!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: ketchup on a bacon sarnie?

That's what I thought too! It's just barbaric! Maybe we should have stayed out of WWII.

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Boffin

Carrots

used to be purple, beetroots were also different colours.

The modern orange carrot is a new "invention".

I have purple and red carrots growing as we speak.

Beetroots, by the way, are not coloured with anthocyanin (common misconception) but the more purple betacyanin...

Which, it seems, is a trick used to turn cannabis purple and then sell at an inflated price...*Must* be good, its purple!!!!

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Re: Carrots

I swear I remember seeing some of those purple carrots on Britains best dish. Or something along those lines anyway.

I don't know what it is about me, but I just down find purple food appetizing. Except strangely purple lettuce. Although I think it's because I find green even less appetizing than purple.

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Re: Carrots

"Which, it seems, is a trick used to turn cannabis purple and then sell at an inflated price...*Must* be good, its purple!!!!"

I knew someone who developed a strain that could be easily grown outdoors in the U.K.

It was purple and not bad at all -- about 20 years ago, not a new thing.

In the old days you could tie up any old leaves using a bit of red cotton and a twig -- instant Thai.

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Re: Carrots

Orange is "new"? It's been a good 300 years since the Dutch pulled off their nationalistic selective breeding coup.

I've found the purpureal varieties of veg tend to be a bit more flavoursome, if more staining, than others but, if I'm reading the article correctly, the JIC are vaunting that they've managed to engineer only the colourant gene in. Here's hoping the actually-tasting-nice code is built into it...

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Purple Potatoes: Re: Carrots

I had purple potatoes once. And they were not purplish: they were a very rich purple. But I don't recall these purple potatoes tasting any different from the more common varieties.

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Go

Re: Carrots

I like the purple carrots, they're good. I don't like the white and yellow ones as much, and the orange ones are only OK if very young.

Home-grown tomatoes and beetroot and EVERYTHING are way better than anything you'll find in a supermarket. If you have any outdoor area at all, start growing veg! Even if you don't, grow some herbs on your windowsill.

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Boffin

Re: Carrots

I once read that the main reason home-grown tomatoes (and possibly other vegetables) taste so much better is partly the varieties chosen, but mostly because they tend to be subject to slight water deprivation from time to time as they mature. Commercial growers make sure their tomatoes take up all the water they can, for obvious reasons.

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Windows

Re: Carrots

I meant "new" relatively.....

I'm looking forward to tasting mine so long as i can keep the bloody slugs off em....

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If they could produce a supermarket tomato that actually tastes of something (my preference would be for 'tomato'), that would be a real breakthrough.

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No, make 'em taste of bacon and lettuce. That would be a real mindfuck.

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WTF?

Here's a revolutionary idea: - just eat food stuffs that have anthocyanins in them, including blueberry, cranberry, bilberry, raspberry, cherry, red grape, red cabbage and aubergine skin.

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Boffin

Healthy food good, profiteering bad.

I've no problem with these tomatoes, or GM that works as advertised. But there's always a but.

My problem is with the corporate ownership of the genes, with all the greed that goes with that. Megacorporations e.g. Monsanto can cover up adverse studies and dampen down the media coverage of opposition by threatening to pull advertising. Look at the rise of peasant farmer suicides, the corporate opposition to the labelling of GM food, underhand tactics used to bully farmers in the USA, massive political bribes, the list goes on.

Free (as in software) selectively bred crop varieties will do just fine, thankyouverymuch. If they are grown without paying protection money (purchasing chemicals) then so much the better.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278691512005637

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Boffin

Re: labeling "GM" food

The problem is that all current/proposed laws require labeling only a small subset of the GM food as "GM". Most of the food we eat today has been GM over the centuries, from the mixing of entire genomes of different species of grasses thousands of years ago to result in today's grain crops, to the massive irradiation and chemical mutagenesis of seeds during the early and middle 20th century in search of new varieties of already-existing food plants. Ever wonder how they keep generating all those new varieties of roses?

Sadly, the evil corporations are right in their stance on the GM labeling laws (if for the wrong reason!).

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Re: Dude, look up "hybrid" crops

A big 20th century advance in plant breeding, but it pretty much requires a big company to grow the pairs of varieties that are the parents of the hybrid, since the hybrid plants will produce only offspring different from the hybrid parents. That's where Monsanto and the other big seed companies got their start, in the early 20th century, way before we even knew what DNA's structure looked like.

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Re: labeling "GM" food

While you do have a point, I maintain there's a big difference between crossing cabbage with turnips and crossing maize with moths.

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Have you noticed that every effort to make food suitable for supermarket shelves

makes it shit for the consumer.

Me - I'm growing a variety of tomato in my polytunnel which goes back to the 1880's.

When ripe it looks like an elephants haemorrhoids and is soft so you'll never see it in the shops but it tastes like heaven.

Oh and its pretty much purple.

I'm getting the impression the GM industry is a bit like software patents - pretend you've invented something and hope no-one notices its been done before. If my product stayed on the shelf for two days I'd think it a failure, if it has to last 48 days it would be a disaster.

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JDX
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Re: Have you noticed that every effort to make food suitable for supermarket shelves

You can keep them.

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Joke

The good news:

Eating purple tomatoes will "prolong the lives of cancer-prone mice"

The bad news:

To achieve this outcome you must eat purple tomatoes and no other food. And you must be a mouse.

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And not just any mouse...

As I recall, the genetic lines of mice and rats used for this sort of thing have effectively been selected because they give "good" results; the poor bastards are fantastically more cancer-prone than their wild brethren.

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Boffin

Re: And not just any mouse...

"As I recall, the genetic lines of mice and rats used for this sort of thing have effectively been selected because they give "good" results; the poor bastards are fantastically more cancer-prone than their wild brethren."

Yes.

That's sort of the point.

To make them virtually guaranteed to develop a cancer when exposed to a carcinogen. If most of them don't you're fairly sure what you've been feeding them has been protecting them.

Now what is the result if they are just fed ordinary tomatoes.

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