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back to article Biz bods: Tile-tastic Windows 8? NOOO. We lust after 'mature' Win 7

Windows 8 won't become an enterprise IT standard as customers dump Microsoft's legacy PC operating system XP. Instead, corporate IT departments will stick to what they know and install Windows 7. That’s according to technology analyst Forrester, which reckoned Windows 7 is fast becoming the de-facto PC operating system for big …

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FAIL

http://images.wikia.com/brutallegend/images/8/8c/You_Don%27t_Say.jpg

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Trollface

A genuine Windows topic and Eadon isn't here to tell us how crap it is.

I'm going for a preemptive FAIL!

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Anonymous Coward

Could it be he is not a robot after all and has to sleep sometimes, or growing up and having a hangover. Clearly a EDON FAIL

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Happy

What about a fixed version of 8?

Win8 plus Classic Shell plus TinyWindowsBorders gives you a very Win7-like experience.

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Re: What about a fixed version of 8?

Well the issue there for enterprise would then be "Why would I go to the effort of installing Win8, then 2 other things, to get back right were I started from with Win7".

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Re: What about a fixed version of 8?

While I agree with you on the subject of needing to install additional software to provide a similar GUI experience to Windows 7, Windows 8 IS NOT Windows 7 and there are some real benefits to the Windows 8 operating system over Windows 7.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: What about a fixed version of 8?

"...there are some real benefits to the Windows 8 operating system over Windows 7."

LIKE WHAT??

It amazes me that some 'experts' come out with exceedingly narrow-minded and outright STUPID comments like that. I am sure that you claim to be a professional yet here you are, believing that "new" = "better" without a single stitch of proof to justify the claim.

"Windows 8 IS NOT Windows 7..."

Exactly. Corporations have spend, on average, at least 1 year in pre-rollout testing to examine the impact that Windows 7 will have in their environments. They have tested stability, network configurations, security, maintainability and most importantly critical applications compatibility and, only after Windows 7 passed their internal certificate processes, are they rolling it out to the users. Companies are rolling Windows 7 out to their users now, as Windows 8 itself is trying to replace Windows 7.

What, exactly, has Windows 8 proven? Does it have a proven track record? What is WIndows 8's proven track record of security? Had a lot of time to test its hardening against all in-the-wild threats, have you?

How about Windows 8's device drivers? Are they stable, secure and are the needed drivers available for legacy hardware, including specialty products?

Windows 8's mission critical application compatibility? You have that proven, yes, judging from your comment.

So, judging by the comment and the several upvotes you've acquired, you - and the people who think as you do - have done a complete and exhaustive in-house test of Windows 8's compatibility with current systems for the number of companies you are openly recommending its rollout to. Well done! Considering that the rest of the world hasn't even started their Windows 8 tests, I'm sure that makes you amongst one of the most valuable Information Technologists available today - a person so advanced that they can get the equivalent of up to 1 year of painstakingly thorough analytical testing done in 7 months time, even before they knew exactly what kind of testing was needed.

Superb! [/s]

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Re: What about a fixed version of 8?

Erm, Refresh and Reset? Secure Boot? Windows-To-Go? ELAM?

I never mentioned compatibility, but that's always a problem with a refresh cycle :)

But carry on ranting...

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FAIL

Re: What about a fixed version of 8?

Perhaps because enterprise support of a client OS goes WAY beyond just how it looks to users??!

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FAIL

Re: They want you to have a Metro / App Store / Mobile experience.

With the requisite vendor lock in.

Smart enterprises will start to look elsewhere.

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Angel

Re: What about a fixed version of 8?

Note: I don't recommend Windows 8 in production, but it does have benefits in business:

* Support for encrypted SMB shares from Server 2012

* Better proactive exploit mitigations

* Free anti-virus/anti-malware

* Free in-kernel whitelist/blacklist of signatures (and checksums of unsigned apps)

* Cheaper access to corporate BitLocker functionality

* Access to better application sandboxing through an additional Integrity Level

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Re: What about a fixed version of 8?

The new features in Windows 8 while useful for home users, don't do anything useful for a business.

I can just imagine the conversations with the auditors."your secretary saved the confidential contract details on a Microsoft cloud" "...and then he left".

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Anonymous Coward

Re: What about a fixed version of 8?

There was a time when car manufacturers produced a "new" car each year, that, more or less, destroyed the whole industry in the US. Trial and error each year, not much time to improve quality or production methods. Microsoft is in that same loop today and it did work for many years but I can understand if companies are getting a bit fed up with having to replace computers and start all over again just because its good for Microsoft.

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Re: What about a fixed version of 8?

Hehe, calm down penguinistas, Secure Boot is a good idea.

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Anonymous Coward

Looking ahead

We are already considering 7 as the last Windows OS in our organization. 20% of our users are on Linux and we see no reason not to go whole hog. There is nothing we cannot do on Linux to conduct business. As older XP PC's get phased out, we replace them with Open Source solutions. We've been burned too many times and paid through the nose for the privilege. Our ERP server has not been rebooted for over two years.

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Re: Looking ahead

Great timing from canonical. Just as everyone starts looking around for a useable Linux desktop ubuntu gets weird.

Can we have our boring,predictable, usable Gnome 2 back please.

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Re: Looking ahead

"There is nothing we cannot do on Linux to conduct business" "Our ERP..."

Meanwhile us little guys are still locked in... Unless you can point out for us a half workable non-enterprise accounting system, that is. Or time & attendance, or practice management, or banking, or service & dispatch, or...

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I am not surprised really, Windows 7 is a good OS and fits in with the Enterprise atm.

Whilst I have no fear of using Windows 8 for myself, I can easily understand the reluctance for business users to take it up. Of course if you are in the business of writing Windows 8 based apps via Visual Studio, then you will need Windows 8 installed to do so. I think that is a bit naughty myself...

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Re: Windows 8 is OK.

Wound up with a win 8 laptop and I quite like it. Admittedly the start menu isn't great, but it still does the job and once you get past that and everything works quite nicely. Actually barely use the start menu at all using taskbar pins instead.

Seems much more reliable than any other version of windows I've used before as well.

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WTF?

Re: Windows 7 is a poor OS

Just a funny anecdote: of all the people I know only one loves 8.

Few days ago he said to me: "I don't understand why everyone hates 8, it is fantastic, rock solid! I had to reformat it only once due to a virus in the 4 months I have it!"

So I proceeded describing him my leisure time Debian machine running since 2003 without an hiccup on 512 MB ram, doing any kind of weird :) online activity without antivirus or antimalware...

Definitely MS have a weird sense of what progress is, if it insists in selling Windows 1 like single non overlapping UI as the groundbreaking progress the world is expecting!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Windows 7 is a poor OS

@Darklordsid - How do you know you've not got a malware/virus installed on your machine, if you don't run any software that might detect it?

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Re: Windows 7 is a poor OS

Eadon, the grown ups are talking at the moment.

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JDX
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Windows 7 sucks. It seems good to ... have not stepped outside the Windows microcosm

I've used OSX 10.5->10.8 a fair bit and I still think Win 7 is better than OSX.

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404
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Re: Windows 8 is OK.

Zanzibar+++

Stardock Sart8 for $4.99 - boots into desktop, nice customizable start button - you hardly know Winows 8 is there lol

just an FYI

;)

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Linux

Re: Windows 7 is a poor OS

@AC Monday 20th May 2013 13:22 GMT

He said he was using Debian on which Ubuntu (and its derivatives) are based.

The simple fact that he is using a LINUX distro, which for the most part, makes using anti-virus absolutely unnecessary.

WINDBLOWZE malware can not run on a Linux machine!!!!!.

-1000 points for being uneducated.

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Re: Windows 7 is a poor OS

Um, I think you re forgetting something... I will fix that for you... :) :P

Windows XP is expensive. It requires rebooting a lot, it is insecure and needs antivirus. It has a registry. It's bloated, it has a bizarre tab-switching behaviour, it requires activation. It hides file extensions. It has secret files that cannot be removed that are there for content-DRM. It sends data to the mothership. It's closed source and cannot be audited for back doors. Win XP has a draconian EULA that's truly scary. It's dated and not in a good way. Windows XP can't run on old hardware. It gets Windows rot. Windows xp is slow at copying files. Windows xp quite simply sucks. It only *seems* good to those that have not stepped outside the Windows microcosm and think it good because it's better than win95...

see what i did there??? I will reiterate what some wag said about lowspec computers running xp...

"hey! I managed to make these computers go faster!!!"

"huh??, how???"

" I just installed win 98!!! :D :D :D "

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Re: Windows 7 is a poor OS

> It's closed source and cannot be audited for back doors

Linux and co have pretty much proved in the last 5 years that just because you can audit code (1) it doesn't necessarily happen, and (2) where it does happen it often introduces more issues because the people doing the auditing don't actually understand what they are looking at.

I don't yet see any MSftisms quite as bad as the Debian SSL keygen cockup, which really was quite spectacular. And some of the kernel paths with bad NULL pointer checks. They were good too. Microsoft isn't perfect, and there are a lot of problems with their security model, but if you believe that Linux is immune to this because "it is open source" you are really living in a dream land.

The biggest issue Windows has is an utter lack of a sensible permissions model, and that is mostly a UI issue. The underlying technology is actually much more flexible than default Linux permissions model, just nothing actually uses it because it isn't really wired up the GUI or explorer in any way which actually works.

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Re: Windows 7 is a poor OS

I should probably point out that if you have a binary blob driver installed (nVidia?) you're not open source anyway.

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Anonymous Coward

Windows 8 being adopted here

I'm a consultant and our company is now, grudgingly, moving to Windows 7. However, my current client are going direct from XP to Windows 8. I'll be interested to see how that unfolds over the next few months...

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FAIL

Re: I'll be interested to see how that unfolds over the next few months...

Do not be surprised if it turns out to be an unmitigated disaster.

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Any company who wants their people to sit at their PC and actually work rather than "Being social" will avoid Win 8 like the plague.

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so whadya do?

You have a mature enterprise environment with a mixture of XP desktops that are imminently going unsupported and all those Windows 7 desktops you bought to replace broken XP machines, or during that last expansion you had.

Do you, replace the XP with Windows 8 (with all the planning and checking necessary) and give yourself another heterogenous desktop setup

OR

Replace the XPs with Windows 7 - which has years in it yet - and take advantage of all the work your IT department has already invested in 7.

Mmmm, tricky......

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Windows

Re: so whadya do?

Have an upvote from a grateful end user. At work we are on Windows 7 with roaming profiles (or whatever they call that now, where you can log into your desktop from any machine) and it works well, something like 500 screens worth.

Given the questions some of my colleagues ask me in our spacious open plan staffroom, I'd suggest any major change in the UI should be avoided for a few years until they see TIFKAM at home.

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Megaphone

Why is it so hard for Microsoft?

Commercial users want stability and reliability. They don't want the latest whizz-bang UI, or tiles, or widgets. They want computers on the desks of their employees to run whatever software they need to run to do their jobs, with minimal support requirements. Don't go changing things, just for the sake of changing them. That just costs us more money in lower productivity, while our employees learn how to use the new features at our expense.

Is this so hard for Microsoft to understand? Just give us something that works and will be supported for "a while", the longer the better. Of course, if it's robust and resistant to malware, all the better, but perhaps that's a bridge too far...

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Anonymous Coward

They don't necessarily make it just for enterprise or consumer now do they.....

Besides if your IT departments are worth a damn they could easily customize anything needed to limit access to anything non-productive.

Win 7 to me though is the way to go for biz, that could change with future updates but not right now imho.

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Re: Is this so hard for Microsoft to understand?

You fail to understand the real issue:

How do you get people to spend more money on your "new product" when the "old product" performs those tasks already???

Change for changes sake!!!!

How else do you insure that the cash spigot does not run dry??

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Stop

I don't know where...

...that 38% that prefer Windows 8 are coming from, but the initial reaction here when users have been confronted with a Windows 8 UI is complete vapour-lock; people draw comparisons with the Office changeover to the Ribbon, but this is not that. This is a hard mental bluescreen followed by a request for "proper Windows". So we'll stay on 7, thanks.

Stop, naturally, followed by INACCESSIBLE_USER_INTERFACE...

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Re: I don't know where...

My guess is that the 38% think that since Win 8 is 1 more than Win 7, it must be better, therefore they are interested. I mean, what kind of person would want last year's model?

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Happy

'one more than win 7'

I'm waiting for the special edition version of Windows that goes all the way up to 11.

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Too soon to upgrade

If my previous experience is to go by, enterprises will not upgrade Windows until the current version gets near to going end of life. Windows 7 EOL date is currently 14th January 2020. So 6.5 years from now.

Working on a Windows version every year, by the time Windows 7 EOLs Microsoft will be up to Windows 14. Drop a version number (because it'll probably be seen as not mature enough) and you're looking at enterprises jumping from Windows XP to Windows 7 to Windows 13.

If we work on a Windows version every other year, then you're looking at enterprises jumping from Windows XP to Windows 7 to Windows 10.

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Windows

Maybe a bit flawed?

First I'm missing a link to the research summary (link to Forrester.com summary). And when reading through that article I can't help wonder if the research isn't a bit flawed here and there.

Not saying that the end results aren't true, but lets face it: a lot of researches also predicted the end of the PC as we knew it, and that has actually yet to happen because although tablets are becoming more popular, they're usually an extension of what people already have. It's extending on the "PC experience", not replacing it perse.

And of course they also make sure to add catchy results, such as stating that a majority of end-users would prefer Windows 8 over Windows 7, all according to their own research data of course.

Yet the thing is; there's one very important factor we need to keep in mind here, this company is selling access to their survey data (link to forrester.com dataservice page). As such it has a commercial interest in making their researches as appealing or provoking as possible.

And let's face it; didn't a majority of the so called experts also predict huge successes for Windows 8? When looking at the Forrester blog some people associated with this company sure seemed to think so, what to think about Windows 8: Think you can skip it? Think again! (link to Forrester blog post dated March 8, 2012).

Seems people have little problems with skipping it though...

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Pint

Re: Maybe a bit flawed?

Researches may be flawed, in both ways, stats are always a lie.

But collapsing chain supply due to millions of unsold W8 machines with CEOs starting publicly blaming Microsoft and investing in Android machines + millions of W8 machines NOT showing up in ANY web stat hinting large part of the 100M licenses so much trumpeted by MS are, well, unsold + widespread public uproar and laughter... all of this probably is not lying.

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WTF?

Re: Maybe a bit flawed?

I've given up paying any real attention or not suspending belief whenever I see the source as Forrester...

They're just paid to write "research" articles that reflect whatever their customer wants. Therefore there's the inevitable BYOD mention in this report and a lot of statistics that frankly given the source figures, or even reality, could be spun to reflect whatever message Forrester's paying customers want.

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