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back to article Windows 8 'sales' barely half as good as Microsoft claims

Microsoft claimed last week that it's made '100 million' Windows 8 sales and the claim has been widely repeated. But channel feedback and the experience on the ground point to a very different picture. The Guardian's Charles Arthur has made a stab at estimating the true figure, and suggests it's much less, at between 57 million …

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FAIL

I agree...

I've got a non-touch Windows 8 laptop (high spec cos I perform Monte carlo calcs on it) and I wish I had bought W7 instead.

I really miss the Start menu. It was my single port of call for all my programs. I listed them all. Now I have to open a search box and type in the name (if I remember what it was) to get to my program (especially the former built in ones, like calc or paint!)

Viewing photographs is also a pain. I open the photo, and get the metro application opening. I minimise it, and it's gone! Nothing in the task bar, so I have to go to Explorer and open the photo again.

Sometimes, and I don't know whether this is the computer itself, or Windows, but I am using the trackpad and I suddenly get the widget/gadget/whatever thing appearing at the side of the screen. WTF? All I did was move teh mouse pointer to another part of the screen (and not the corner either!).

All in all, I find Windows 8 to be very frustrating. I can't find anything and the reliance on a Microsoft account is also annoying.

Not impressed.

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FAIL

Re: I agree...

I really miss the Start menu. It was my single port of call for all my programs. I listed them all. Now I have to open a search box and type in the name (if I remember what it was) to get to my program (especially the former built in ones, like calc or paint!)

That's a common problem. Or at least it used to be. Then someone brought GUIs to PCs and the problem went away.

Oh.

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Re: I agree...

At least You can *See* the UI to try & figure out WTF is going on.

Close your eyes, and attempt to navigate that bastard child of an MC Escher & Rube Goldberg nightmare entirely by the Audio Cues it gives you.

Now you've got the barest inkling of an idea of what it's like as a Blind/VI Windows 8 user.

Not much fun, is it?

=-J

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Re: I agree...

problem solved with one easy download from.... www.classicshell.net

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JDX
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Re: I agree...

Hit the windows key and you see a huge start menu listing all your applications... you don't have to type anything beyond hitting the windows key

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I agree...

Problem not solved. That is humouring them.

They should instead be sacked instead of given leeway to pretend that they were a success, because other people pay money to force themselves to waste time finding workarounds to the shit they've just bought.

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Re: I agree...

That's the problem - it lists ALL your applications.

Install visual studio and that spy tool (to check for COM messages in MFC apps running in console mode ) appears before the IDE

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Re: I agree...

"That's the problem - it lists ALL your applications"

No it doesn't, it lists all the ones that are pinned to your start menu.. You can then arrange them, group them, add and remove them as you see fit.

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Re: I agree...

You could create a new Toolbar on your taskbar, select the folder C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu and it'll give you most of you need, just not as easily/conveniently as a Start Menu!

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Facepalm

Re: I agree...

"You can then arrange them, group them, add and remove them as you see fit."

No crap. Or you could have them grouped by the publisher into little "folders" so that all the pieces of one "app" are grouped together... Oh wait. That wouldn't be "modern", would it?

Also, you could arrange, group, add and delete Start Menu entries a long time ago (Win95+IE4?). Strange thing is that most people didn't arrange them, and it just turned into a mess of entries based on the order they were installed. Which is why they dropped that again in Vista.

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Re: I agree...

use Classic Shell - Easy!

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Linux

Re: I agree... In all honesty BUT...

The truth is that Microsoft's "innovation" stopped at XP and Office 2003.

There are sort of fundamental things, like hammers and nails.. that once they reach a certain degree of technical proficiency, any improvements from then on, are generally cosmetic.

And really, Office 2007 and the IDIOT non removable ribbon, was just window dressing on a shit product.

Docxs ? was just a way to force all the people without the newest version of MS Office, to go and upgrade to the latest version.

Windows 8? In looking at XP, how many REAL technical improvements, were genuinely needed to move the product with the times and advances in technology, security and functionality?

Without getting too hair splitty - underneath all the hype and bullshit, it's probably about the same as giving your car a full service, with a grease and oil change, new plugs, filters and a clean up.

In other words, not a lot.

From XP and Office 2003 onwards, 95% of these "improvements" have been made solely to keep people on the upgrade tread mill.

The Microsoft Operating System, and MS Office, kind of reached their technical epoch, just like the Hammer and the nails did, a long time ago.

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Re: I agree...

I think they were rolling with the 'fake it until you make it' style of thinking. If they just put out enough good chatter about Windows 8, and maintained it long enough, it would, in time, demolish the 'hump' of old biases, and everyone would embrace the new interface, praising it as the new way of doing things. Very marketing, very psychological, very wrong. They made the same mistake that venture capitalists complain about when interviewing potential candidates -> you need to be profitable from day one, or, in this case, the interface needs to sell itself from the get go. Techs need to pickup a copy of the new Windows 8 interface, and find that it scratches an itch they didn't even knew they had....something like buying a new car, pressing a button, and finding a drinks dispenser / ice chest.

And the techs have been telling MS, since day one, that Windows 8 not only did not do that for them, but that it went in the other direction. The computer industry would have been happy with Windows 8 being Windows 7 SP3, and paid for the privilege of running it. See, this is how bad MS messed this up...they took something that worked, made it worse, then publicly denounced everyone that said so, right up until the larger players started weighing in, then MS started backing off....long after antagonizing everyone in the industry.

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I only know one person using windows 8

But then I can't think of anyone else who has bought a new computer recently, that hasn't been a Mac.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I only know one person using windows 8

As Eadon forgot it, and to be honest I got a little uncomfortable without it.

EPIC SLEIGHT OF HAND FAIL

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JDX
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Re: I only know one person using windows 8

@Eadon - of course Linux distros never use the same tactic of simply reporting the number of downloads rather than the number of installs or number of active users? EVERYONE finds the best way to present their numbers.

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This can't be Eadon

It's almost reasonable. There's no frothing and not much ranting. That's not Eadon! Someone has stolen his identity! Send out the search parties and find the real Eadon, and locate this impostor and deal with him properly!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I only know one person using windows 8

Looking at OS stats on Steam, Windows 8 64-bit in third place (behind Windows 7 32-bit and 64-bit), so I think there are more people using it than you realise.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

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Re: I only know one person using windows 8

With Linux it can work the other way. I downloaded Mint 13 twice (KDE and XFCE editions) and installed the KDE version on a couple of machines and the XFCE on five. You're not allowed to do that with Windows unless you've paid for a big posh licence.

Just remember what they say about statistics.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: This can't be Eadon

Only in reason, or in massive myopic ego as well?

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Re: I only know one person using windows 8

My brother-in-law recently bought a new computer. He opted for a store-brand one that shipped with Win7 rather than Win8, and the guy in the shop noted that there is still a clear preference for Win7 which is why it's standard on their own-brand PCs.

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If I wanted high Linux usage figures ...

... counting distro downloads would not be my tenth choice.

Here are 462,000,000 Android sales in 2012 with a single link:

http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2013/02/worlds-biggest-computer-makers-when-pcs-tablets-and-smartphones-are-included.html

Windows (all flavours) only scored 296,000,000 that year. Android is not the only flavour of Linux. If we start adding more Linux flavours, that will include markets like supercomputers and routers where Windows is almost absent. Penguins do not need to bulk up installation numbers. The tables have turned:

Linux Windows 8 not yet ready for the desktop.

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Re: I only know one person using windows 8

@ Jess

They bought Macs? No doubt they'll be on here shortly complaining about the lack of a Start button too.

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Windows

@Jess

Same here, only a few use it and everyone I know who does immediately installed a 'start menu replacement'. Most of the people around me who were still on XP bought Windows 7 instead (a few of them because of me; I warned them that if they waited too long they couldn't buy Win7 anymore even if they wanted to).

I'm much more curious how much Windows 7 has sold in the past months. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the 'sale spike' Microsoft was hoping to get with Windows 8 actually happened with Windows 7.

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Boffin

Re: I only know one person using windows 8

And how many people do you suppose run both Windows and Mac OS or Linux or something occasionally?

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Anonymous Coward

@JDX - Re: I only know one person using windows 8

Well, well! So, you heard about Linux, isn't that fascinating ?

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Anonymous Coward

@Flocke Kroes - Re: If I wanted high Linux usage figures ...

Easy with your horses here, son! Android has nothing to do with Linux. And it stinks big time on a desktop, it is way much worse than Windows8.

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Re: @Flocke Kroes - If I wanted high Linux usage figures ...

"Android has nothing to do with Linux"

What !

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@Simon Barker

The difference is, of course, that on OSX you're changing the UI paradigm to the one that MS originally ripped off anyway. Instead of a Start menu, you get Spotlight (search for apps), the Apple menu (for system-wide stuff) and the Dock.

Oh, and if you have to use Office, even with the latest 2011 version you still have MENUS. You know, the ones that MS excised in the Windows version. Yes, 2011 has the Ribbon, but it is less annoying as it doesn't take that much space as in Windows and you can bypass it mostly thanks to the menus.

Thanks to Windows 8, jumping to OS X is now less painful than jumping into the Fabulous Fred toy OS...

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Re: @Flocke Kroes - If I wanted high Linux usage figures ...

> Android has nothing to do with Linux.

Linux is the kernel of all GNU/Linux Distros and is the kernel of Android. While many Linuxes have KDE, Gnome, XFCE, or other front end GUI Android has its own front end GUI plus Dalvek VM.

Android is as much Linux as Red Hat, Ubuntu and all the others.

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Steam OS stats

"Looking at OS stats on Steam, Windows 8 64-bit in third place (behind Windows 7 32-bit and 64-bit), so I think there are more people using it than you realise."

Windows 7 64-bit 54.18%

Windows 7 13.39%

Windows 8 64-bit 10.86%

Windows XP 32-bit 8.25%

Windows Vista 64-bit 4.45%

...

Win8 might have a third place, but the two places above Win8 take 67.57% of the cake, vs. 11.65% for Win8. (I'm adding the measly 0.74% for Windows 8 32-bit.)

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Re: Eadon

"No other organisation is as bare bare faced and shameless at misleading Journalists and the people"

You have never watched a White House press briefing, have you?

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Re: I only know one person using windows 8

Maybe the "100 million" is based on a U.S. unit of measure concerning licences, n'est pas?

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Re: This can't be Eadon

I said that it was _almost_ reasonable. And, for you, it was. One of your problems is that you're simply rabidly unreasonable on certain subjects, and your rants have long since become merely tiresome.

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Re: I only know one person using windows 8

"And how many people do you suppose run both Windows and Mac OS or Linux or something occasionally?" Quite a few. including myself.

i don't do Win 8, though.

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Splayd

I used to think you could convert a lot of things [to an all-in-one smartphone] but I'm older and wiser, I think. You end up with a 'spork' - a combination of a spoon and a fork. It's no good as a spoon and no good as a fork.

They do actually exist (an example being the Splayd, and ironically they're actually quite good for the job.

As for the software, one has to wonder why there isn't any kind of industry-standard way to judge this. Or would that be too simple and straightforward rather than allowing all the trickery and marketing wordplay that now goes on?

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Re: Splayd

I thought it was the viners splade.

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Headmaster

Re: Splayd

Indeed, I remember the adverts as a child.

I personally think that it is correctly a "runcible spoon"

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Stop

Spork!

There's nothing wrong with sporks- they do a good job as a spoon, and a reasonable fork impression.

Win 8 on the other hand...

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Re: Spork!

Yes the spork takes a decent stab at being both......see what i did there ;)

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Spork!

Did you just invent the sporkife?

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Anonymous Coward

Didn't we all know this.

As quite clearly when Microsoft claimed 100m Windows 8 systems, that should have rung alarm bells, considering no businesses are using, and consumers are desperate to downgrade.

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Devil

Re: Didn't we all know this.

As quite clearly when Microsoft claimed 100m Windows 8 systems

What they mean is they ordered their OEMs to purchase 100M W8 licenses. The OEMs have no choice, when M$ say jump they don't stop to think about whether they'll be allowed to land.

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Coffee/keyboard

Re: Didn't we all know this.

and consumers are desperate to downgrade.

Which customers are these? last time I checked, only nerds could reinstall an older operating system anyway, unless they're taking their PCs in to be downgraded.

The vast majority probably wouldn't even notice if Windows 3.1 was installed.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Didn't we all know this.

The vast majority probably wouldn't even notice if Windows 3.1 was installed.

Okay, who is the MS tard who keeps downvoting anything against their redmond friend?

The aforementioned quote is the truth, doesn't matter how downvotes it gets from MS sales droids.

If you actually worked in the PC repair business, I'm sure you'd understand.

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