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back to article Microsoft honcho pleads with media: 'Stop picking on us!'

Microsoft has taken quite a pounding in the press over Windows 8, and it has only intensified the rumors that the planned update to the OS might roll back some of its more controversial features. But Redmond has had quite enough now, and it wants it all to stop. On Friday, Frank X. Shaw, Microsoft's corporate vice president of …

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"Microsoft honcho pleads with media: 'Stop picking on us!'"

Stop whining, shut up, and ship Win 8.1.

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Re: "Microsoft honcho pleads with media: 'Stop picking on us!'"

Tell you what, Honcho, ship 8.1 AND 7 and tell us which people buy.

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FAIL

Re: "Microsoft honcho pleads with media: 'Stop picking on us!'"

Karmas a bitch eh Microsoft.. The very same media you mass manipulated into hating Sony and the PS3 so you could get your foot in the gaming door has now turned against you.

How's it like now the tables have turned?

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Re: "Microsoft honcho pleads with media: 'Stop picking on us!'"

And my start menu back - can't use classic shell forever!

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Linux

Rest of Android using manufacturers plead with Microsoft "Stop extorting us!"

Ahh, cuddly cute Microsoft feel all picked on and want you to feel sorry for them.

Don't. Not for an instant. "Cruel to be kind" is the only way with this hypocritical cancer.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "Microsoft honcho pleads with media: 'Stop picking on us!'"

Just yesterday, a story you have heard a thousand times before, but in some ways it is surprising it is still happening like this. A lawyer I know is in the market for a new machine but doesn't want to get one until he has talked to his friend, a PC acolyte "who knows all about computers." His daughter, who lives elswhere with her mum, has a MacBook Air and pleads with him to get one. He does, he does ignoring the advice of his PC acolyte friend. Now he won't shut up about how much better the MacBook Air is.

Of course previously he was running old *crap* bloated hardware. He didn't have the latest version if Windows. His machine was dog slow. So by comparison the MacBook Air is always going to be getting off to a good start. He also, clearly, doesn't know much about computers. He's a lawyer so can afford the premium price tag. But even with the few datapoints this story yields it illustrates some fundamental points.

1. Computer Customers are basically sticky, they try to stay with what they know.

2. Once they are gone they are gone

3. They lag the state if the art ( he has been blown away by OSX, which is, in relative terms, now getting to be an old OS but has always been on a good foundation ) as compared with probably Windows XP, or Vista.

4. Bad experiences become like an an anti-brand once someone encounters a good new experience. Surely MS's chance if winning this guy back is now massively reduced (ok a partial restatement of point 2 above, I know)

In the face of stories like this, MS whining about the tech press is irrelevant. This is entirely the result of relative experience. So, yes this guys experience isn't based on a level playing field, with scientific testing of different devices in the state if the art before purchase, but it *is* based on the kind of personal experience that is one very important part of the battlefield on which MS have to compete. It makes it absolutely clear, they have to focus not just on doing a good job and getting to the point the can market a superior feature list but, now tablets are crunching the margins of the market, really need to produce actual blow your socks off experience. They have to put a product out there that makes the punters really feel it and overcomes the well of bad-will their previous releases have built up. All the rest is just complaining about the reality of how the world is. In other words, this MS Marketing guy needs to direct his complaints inwards at the product team. But at Microsoft it's in the culture of the company, a marketing person would never be able to do that.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "Microsoft honcho pleads with media: 'Stop picking on us!'"

I know people exactly like that too. The main part of the problem which MS need to overcome is that owning a PC is not easy, things go wrong far too easily, constant updates to worry about, varying quality of antivirus and firewalls and the rest of it.

It's just like owning a car and for the most part doing all the maintenance on it yourself rather than the garage mechanic taking care of it. If the business model had been originally that you take in your PC for annual maintenance when you go on your holidays for a week or two, then the love affair with MS would have been different.

Apple, although not entirely problem free, have just made owning an operating a computer or device just easy to use and worry free. Android is also getting near to that point. Users love Apple and Android and have bad memories and bad taste of Microsoft. The only people who still like MS are some specialists and those whose livelihood depends upon it. I am actually sticking with MS because with Win 7 I now have a stable platform and it does everyting I need it to do. In addtion I have an Android tablet and phone which are great sync as well with MS Exchange as MS' own software.

The only way that MS can succeed again, at least in the retail / consumer sector is by a complete change of name / re-branding of the OS and hardware because its strength has now become a massive stubbling block as people recall their bad experiences with the product. They tried with "Windows" but that only rubbed salt in people's wounds. They need to come up with something completely different, base it on BSD / Linux, give it a fruity name (they could buy the rights to the name of former Apricot or Acorn for example) and come up with some sexy phone and tablet and PC hardwares to go with it.

Long way to go Microsoft, a very long way to go.

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Re: "Microsoft honcho pleads with media: 'Stop picking on us!'"

@Frank 14. I completely agree. Yes I too think the word's "Microsoft" and "Windows" have become an Anti brand. At least they certainly have for me. I switched to using OSX several years ago and my memory is filled with pain at the thought of Microsoft Windows. Whenever friends ask me for help, I find my arse cheeks clench when I have to sit down at their machines (usually dog slow and chock full of viruses - yes usually mostly their fault - but that's the reality and what their machines have become like). This isn't a *rational* response. I recognise it is emotion. I recognise Win 7 got very good reviews (I left at the height of the pain with Vista). I recognise Win 8 is probably much more performance efficient (though I still have my doubts about any release that contains the same registry architecture). But frankly I don't give a shit and don't have the time of day for Microsoft. Given the amount of time I can illustrate they have been responsible for wasting in my life, I don't want to spend even one more second of my life evaluating their software. It would really have to have outstanding reviews to win me back. Indeed I'm even prepared to spend some minutes writing scathing stuff about them like this!

Another experience I had recently, was, with a friend visiting PC World in Wimbledon. Immediately on entry the place wreaked of bad customer service attitude. It didn't help that the staff in the upstairs PC section were allowed to play their own music and rap was blaring out the shop speakers. Now don't get me wrong, I actually like a bit of rap, but I'm also realistic enough to recognise, rightly or wrongly, it has immediate "I ain't here to service your needs and ain't gonna help much bro' " connotations. And this in the face of competition from a nearby Apple store in Kingston and Apple reseller Stormfront over the road. It's just a matter of being realistic, and if the PC market can't compete in the most basic ways, they deserve what they are getting. The cacophony of techie brands most people want to know nothing about (because who they are is entirely internal to the task they want done) is hugely damaging to business. It induces a state of mild depression in me every time I see the recogisable PC World purple and yellow. They have shelves of anti virus software and only think of it as goods to shift, not stopping for a second to consider what message there is so much of it, so many competing brands, gives about the PC experience. That the PC market has done so little to adapt to the new world order is quite frankly pathetic.

Microsoft are stuck unable to do the hardest thing - recognise the very high levels of brand recognition they have with the existing brand is a negative for them. They are stuck in a forrest of competing brands shouting for attention like waiters in tourist trap locations collaring tourists for business, and we want to know nothing about them. Their very presence is turning people off in droves.

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Anonymous Coward

@Barry Shitpeas

"The very same media you mass manipulated into hating Sony and the PS3..."

If you think that people hate Sony because Microsoft "manipulated" the media, and not because of Sony's high prices, episodes like the rootkit, the banning of Linux on the PS3, their use of proprietary connectors and cables with price-gouging replacement costs, well I could go on, but if you blame Sony's problems on Microsoft, and not on Sony itself, then you must be on the Sony payroll. Or you're very stupid.

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Windows

Re: "Microsoft honcho pleads with media: 'Stop picking on us!'"

>"And my start menu back - can't use classic shell forever!"

Why not? Works for me. In fact, Win 8 with Classic Shell is by far the best Windows experience I've ever seen.

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Happy

Re: "Microsoft honcho pleads with media: 'Stop picking on us!'"

What you say is probably true - "the best windows experience ever". Just try something like OS X or Linux Mint and you will find out that others are lightyears ahead.

Zane

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Linux

Re: "Microsoft honcho pleads with media: 'Stop picking on us!'"

>"Just try something like OS X or Linux Mint and you will find out that others are lightyears ahead."

I have, and I look at each one as a tool. I use Linux on a lot of my systems at my office, especially for CPU-intensive tasks. I don't use Mint much - I've been using SUSE and openSUSE for many years. And I don't currently use OSX, although some people in the office bring their Macbooks and we have to support them. But really, Win 8 is a very fast and robust system - I've installed it on a couple of workstations and I'm quite pleased with it. I use Classic Shell and hide all the Metro stuff - don't really see the need for Metro stuff when you are using multiple monitors on a desktop.

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Mushroom

Re: "Microsoft honcho pleads with media: 'Stop picking on us!'"

What Microsoft (Apple is not far behind) is not telling anyone is that their operating system is going toward that of Cell phones. A locked OS where you can only add programs from the Cloud or legitimate online store. They are allowing themselves that capability to leave the PCs behind at a moments notice. I actually grin at what big business is trying to do such as Adobe. This is the future - love them or live without their products. Mankind (starting with the next generation) will be assimilated into the Corporate Borg. The rest of us will be sitting on the roadside curb with our pencil and pad wondering what just happened.

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Re: "Microsoft honcho pleads with media: 'Stop picking on us!'"

@Scarborough Dave the start menu is alive and well in Windows 8 - it's just full screen. Based on user feedback, Microsoft realised that nobody used the area of screen which wasn't the start menu after pressing start and so they full screened it. If you want a vote then stop unticking the customer experience program box when you install, don't whine on web forums!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "Microsoft honcho pleads with media: 'Stop picking on us!'"

Strangely enough after 6 years of OSX I am bring swayed by Windows 7. I had to help my old man build a new machine about 6 months back and he wanted Windows 7. He has a Mac too but he had a bit of money to burn and wanted a new toy to play with. After we messed about with Windows 7 for about a week I must say I am extremely impressed. I still don't like the fact that MS chose to bury everything "seven levels deep" as opposed to OSX which has limited settings but they sit just out of sight. However I am slowly starting to think about dumping the Mac, now 4 years old and going back to building a tower, stuffed to the gills with user serviceable parts and buying a copy of Windows 7. The only thing I use that's Mac specific is Aperture but I'm sure Picassa or Lightroom could replace that if I made an effort.

The old saying "Once you to go Mac..." is now sounding a little hollow.

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Mushroom

Re: "Microsoft honcho pleads with media: 'Stop picking on us!'"

"Just try something like OS X or Linux Mint and you will find out that others are lightyears ahead."

It somewhat irritates me how people evangelise OS X or Linux as the cure all for Windows (as if a cure is needed). Starting with Windows way back in 3.1, I've seen a massive improvement over the years in stability, performance and usability. I have used several varieties of Linux including Red Hat, Suse and Ubuntu (both Gnome and Unity).

During the days before Windows 7, I went for a while using Linux as my sole operating system. I went back to WIndows. In the past couple years and at times Linux has become my sole operating system.

A couple years ago I got a MacBook Pro (I wanted to try iPhone development). For me iOS was okay, but personally I didn't feel it was as usable as Windows 7 (how come, when a confirmation dialog appears I have to reach for the mouse instead of using the keyboard to select the appropriate button and press [enter]?). Now, with Windows 7 and Bootcamp my preference is to boot into Windows.

Ultimately it would be great to see both a little more humility and a little more objectivity when it comes to operating system discussion. Instead of: "OS X is way better than Windows", something like: "Personally, I find OS X much easier to use because ..." would demonstrate an awareness that preference in operating system depends very much on what you are used to, what you are trying to achieve and... well... preference. Showing such awareness would, I believe, indicate a heightened sense of understanding about how people work and would certainly raise my hackles less

Sure, none of you know me personally and probably most of you couldn't care less about my hackles so will continue posting as you do, but it does make me feel better posting about it :)

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Megaphone

Re: "Microsoft honcho pleads with media: 'Stop picking on us!'"

@apjanes - "Personally, I find OS X much easier to use because..." it doesn't crash, I've never had a single virus and the UI is outstanding (subjective opinion). All of which culminates in the honest appraisal that I will continue to use OS X for managing my work and personal data and use a stripped down version of Windows 8 for gaming, until a proper alternative is available.

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Re: "Microsoft honcho pleads with media: 'Stop picking on us!'"

Err! I think Sony did that all by themselves when they infected the computers of millions of loyal and law abiding music fans with a malign root kit. Or maybe it was when they gave away millions of loyal PS users account details and then went off-line for weeks. Or perhaps it was insufferable closed-ness but without the Apple chic - remember ATRAC anyone! Remember the way they wanted to treat Europians like criminals for modifying their PS maybe believing that Fascist US law is a worldwide juristiction.

Microsoft may be a hardnosed corporate like Sony when it comes to dealing with companies but, having used them since the 70's (I bought a MS Basic ROM for my Nascom!), they treat their customers good. Always have done.

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Meh

Re: "Microsoft honcho pleads with media: 'Stop picking on us!'"

I have too.

Whilst Linux works fine and dandy, OSX on the other hand feels very very old.

I've always felt that Apple would love to dump OSX and run everything on iOS.

OSX feels very unloved and well...clunky.

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Re: @Barry Shitpeas

Sony's problems didn't help them, admittedly. The trouble is that Microsoft is making quite a few mistakes of their own, some of which look remarkably like those made by Sony.

Then again, both companies have flung a fair amount of dirt around, so you can't really blame Barry for his view of the situation. Well, not that much...

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Re: "Microsoft honcho pleads with media: 'Stop picking on us!'"

to commenter "apjanes"

Here are the facts you requested, although I suspect that as a Microsoft supporter at any costs, they wont' matter.

1. GNU/Linux, Mac OS x and *BSD from which OS X was originally derived are true 64-bit pre-emptive multi-tasking, multiprocessing operatings systems, compared to Windows 7/2008 for example for which many corporations muct patch and add-on to allow Windows to run, for example 64-bit Oracle or IBM DB2.

2. The NTFS file system in Windows 2/2008 does not have Cyclic Redundancy Checking (CRC), which accounts for the continual "defrag" and cleanup tasks required. HFS+, EXT$, ZFS fiule systems in *nix are more robust - support Data Mining, Banking/Financial Services processing and "all" the telecommunications and large Internet networking traffic.

3. Security. Only Windows needs anti-virus/worm/trojan/spywhare "by default", since German firm demonstrated about a year ago that several 12 yrar olds hacked a new un-pritected Windows in 15 minutes, and protected Windows in less than an hour. While there are dozens of Linux distributions, from one person garage hacks to large organization ventures, most of the more popular and well supported Linux need no ant-virus, except to protect windows clients attached.

4. Reliability. A few examples to prove point. (a) When NASA was preparing for the Mars Curiosity Mission, every test and evaluation for" long term reliability" of Windows "Failed". (b) When Netflix searched for Server OS for their Streaming Media appliances to put by thousands with ISPs to stream tens of millions of movies per month - Windows "Failed" and the Windows IPv6 network stacks could not take the loads required. Enter FreeBSD. (c) After all the other major Stock Exchanges internationally chose Linux or UNIX over Winbdows for security and reliability of handling millions of financial transactions per second, Microsoft funded their technology implementation - to tens of $millions at the London stock Exchange. In less than a year, the London stock Exchange "dumped" windows with public statement "We are divorcing Microsoft /Windows" due to miserable results with Redmond offerings. (d) The government of Brazil spent years and tens of $millions testing and evaluating software for twenty first requirements for their technology requirements. Results, almost all of the Government technology is "non-Microsoft". Ditto for Munich Germany, Vienna, Austria, Government of Russia, South African government, the US Department of Defense, All the Animation Studios of Hollywood, THEUS Department of Energy Research Laboratories - Lawrence Livermore, Fermi, Brookhaven and the rest, Chinese Governmrent and many more, including municipalities in North America.

I could go on and provide you with "dozens" and "dozens" more real life events of Windows "sucking", but if you do not accept these truths, then no amount of reality matters.

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WTF?

Re: @Barry Shitpeas

@AC

"If you think that people hate Sony because Microsoft "manipulated" the media, and not because of Sony's high prices, episodes like the rootkit, the banning of Linux on the PS3, their use of proprietary connectors and cables with price-gouging replacement costs"

Are you for real?

1. The "Rootkit" wasn't a rootkit, wasn't even Sony (it was First4Internet" and Sony BMG), it predated the PS3 by 10 years, and only an idiot would let that affect a purchasing decision 10 years down the road. By that logic you also should avoid Microsoft's consoles for what they did to Netscape and all the other companies they crushed by their market monopoly and backhanded illegal tricks.

2. Linux was never "Banned" on the PS3. it was removed as it was being used as a method to crack the console to piracy. And everyone knows, if you console runs cracked games, developers run a mile the next gen (a problem Microsoft will suffer with the NextBox). To believe your "banning" sequence of events, you have demonstrated how the twisted reporting by the media has clouded your judgment so much that you have forgotten in what order the evens occurred. Removal of Linux was a reactionary move and of little consequence, as it was shite. Anyone that used YDL will know that. It took and age to boot and unless you were doing major number crunching, you were wasting your time when you could be playing games on it.

3. High Prices. Remind me how much Xbox360 owners have spent in Xbox Live fees, replacement consoles and play and charge kits/batteries/memory cards/HDD upgrades/HD DVD add-ons since 2006? The PS3 had all this out the box, nothing else to buy. To even suggest the PS3 was poor value for money is absolutely absurd, and shows us you are an idiot that can't understand the concept of TCO. I'm pretty confident to say that 90% of Xbox360 owners will have spent vastly more than a PS3 owner would have if they had bought their consoles in 2006, and the PS3 owner would have had not only a better gaming experience with better exclusives, but a better media experience too, and far better reliability.

4. proprietary connectors and cables. Come again? I can't think of a single connector on the PS3 that's not an industry standard. It's pure SATA HDD, USB, HDMI, RJ45... If you want to look at proprietary, take Microsoft's extensive tricks to stop you using off the shelves memory devices and hard disks, and forcing you to use their overpriced ones with special firmware... That right there is price-gouging....

Sorry for making you look a total tool for burning every single issue. I rest my case, you and many others have been brainwashed by the media into hating Sony and the PS3, simply because Microsoft needed to get their foot in the door. I suspect you read all the tripe you posted from an AMERICAN gaming website. Guess what their agenda is, yep, you know, that AMERICAN console.....

When you grow up a little bit more, think back to this post, and remember how naive you were..

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Anonymous Coward

Re: @Barry Shitpeas

"Sony's problems didn't help them, admittedly. The trouble is that Microsoft is making quite a few mistakes of their own, some of which look remarkably like those made by Sony. Then again, both companies have flung a fair amount of dirt around, so you can't really blame Barry for his view of the situation. Well, not that much..."

Yeah, I can. As much as I want, too. There's no excuse for the stupidity and ignorance that Barry Shitpeas shows when he blames all of Sony's problems on the press being manipulated by Microsoft.

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Pint

Frankly Mr. Shaw....

.....we don't give a damn what kind of pop you drink. Couldn't resist.

But at any rate, yes, Windows 8 does have its good points. I won't deny that. I use it on a laptop that is six years old and it is pretty snappy. Kudos to Microsoft for allowing aging kit like that to run a modern OS. I hardly ever enter Metroland except to use the Netflix app because it just works so perfectly for that. But in the end, I am firmly set in Desktop mode. Sometimes I really miss my start menu that I am used to, but I am waiting patiently for Microsoft to get it through their heads what people have been saying for over a year. GIVE METRO A REST WILL YA????

I don't want it on my desktop machine for the most part. I really don't. I like the performance improvements, but seriously hate the Windows Boot Manager and what has become of trying to get into Safe Mode or things of that nature.

to Microsoft I say, "STOP!! PAY ATTENTION!!!!" They were told long before it came out that people hated it and that it wasn't going to do well. They pushed ahead. The market responded and said, "Fine....we are going to go to Apple, Linux or even Android power desktops and laptops if we have to. Take your Windows 8 and shove it if you're not going to listen." The way it sounds is that this guy is feeling like a victim of harassment and he claims that it isn't deserved. It IS deserved!!! The Internet community tried to be nice....Microsoft plugged their ears. Now the Internet community has given up on being nice and is screaming at you to smarten up. So.....stop running around like a whiny little baby and beg for people to "stop picking on you" when you brought it on yourself.

</rant>

WHEW! I feel so much better.....time for a pint or two...or...three.....dozen....

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Re: Frankly Mr. Shaw....

But at any rate, yes, Windows 8 does have its good points. I won't deny that. I use it on a laptop that is six years old and it is pretty snappy. Kudos to Microsoft for allowing aging kit like that to run a modern OS.

----

Why is that impressive or worthy of kudos? Windows 8 is the NT 6.2 kernel. Vista was the NT 6.0 kernel. So machines six years ago, designed for Vista, can run something that is in some ways Vista SP2. Really no more impressive than XP SP3 running on a laptop designed when Windows 2000 came out.

If it could run on hardware not really designed for Vista, or if whatever OS contains NT 7.0 can run well on Vista/7/8 era hardware, then I'll be impressed.

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Re: Frankly Mr. Shaw....

"Windows 8 is the NT 6.2 kernel. Vista was the NT 6.0 kernel. So machines six years ago, designed for Vista, can run something that is in some ways Vista SP2. Really no more impressive than XP SP3 running on a laptop designed when Windows 2000 came out."

Which may be the problem. Instead of building something new that works, they keep on trying to make the NT code do yet more things. All software gets upgraded and bug fixed, but there comes a time when simply bodging a security fix in, or sticking a crappy new UI on some bits of the old dog simply isn't enough, particularly if you want to have common code across a wider range of devices. I suspect the Windows code is simply too big, too poorly coded and too little understood by Microsoft themselves to enable it to be transformed into something new and good, but they don't have the courage to build something new.

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Pint

Re: Frankly Mr. Shaw....

"" .....we don't give a damn what kind of pop you drink.""

Ritchie, Kernighan and Thorvalds drink beer..Explains a lot, doesn't it ?

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Anonymous Coward

How about you listen to feedback _before_ you RTM next time?

It's not like the feedback from the developer program for Windows 8 sans start menu, THE ALL CAPITALS MENU in Visual Studio, etc were exactly glowing. If there is any user/media backlash it's because MS have seemingly asked for feedback, gone "bollocks to you all" and done it anyway with a "we know better" attitude, and now think all should be forgiven because they might or might not be fixing things.

It doesn't exactly build confidence in the technical community, and they arn't behind you, then you're kinda stuck.

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Re: How about you listen to feedback _before_ you RTM next time?

Win8 is not suitable for anything but touchscreens. Within hours of the beta release, early adopters spotted that fatal limitation, because they installed it on laptops and desktops without touchscreens.

In typical corporate-think style, Ballmer et al. began shouting down any negative comments as disloyal, biased, or naive, and those people all stopped complaining and went back to Windows7.

Now that the "respectable" press like The Economist has taken up the issue, MS has progressed from sneering to whining.

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Thumb Up

Re: How about you listen to feedback _before_ you RTM next time?

I think this is completely reasonable criticism, they released 3 public previews and after the first the feedback was "Yo Microsoft, you forgot the start menu, we want it back", after the second the feedback was "Hey Microsoft, we said we wanted the start menu back, and you took away the start button", with just disbelief after the third preview. Will they listen now? I doubt it!

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Re: How about you listen to feedback _before_ you RTM next time?

Indeed. When IT was telling MS that Windows 8 was going to sink, MS Marketing came out and gave IT the third degree. I would speak to people about Windows 8, and ask their opinions of it, and they would say that they loved it or hated it, but in either case, 'there is a minority of old techs who refuse to get with the times and get on board.' MS launched a scorched earth attack on its own people for giving it honest feedback, for the simple reason that they would not tout the corporate line, but told them to fix Windows 8.

Now MS Marketing is experiencing the shoe on the other foot, and suddenly they don't want any of it. Too bad. You guys banjaxxed the OS, you falsified the product feedback, you fought IT tooth and nail when they told you it was a kludge and would cost MS billions, time to take some of your own bitter medicine. The point behind a blood interface is to make things more efficient, faster, better, etc. than a previous one; Windows 8, excluding the StarDock add-ons (which I fancy), appears to fail in this realm. What more, your attempts to unify the desktop / tablet space would be, I don't know, better, if the tablet interface for Windows 8 did not seem to have so many problems (this is hearsay, I grant you, but I have heard that people are complaining that the typing interface / on-screen keyboard needs some polish).

At the end of the day, people run Windows, in businesses, because it allows them to generate more revenue / profits / be more efficient / whatever than simply using a pen and a piece of paper. As such, the interface should be quick and easy to use...require a minimum of retraining between versions, and run on older hardware. Windows 8 does one of those...and it is built around the idea that everyone would run out and splurge on new touchscreen interfaces, as opposed to the reality that everyone would upgrade hardware over a 3-year cycle. A killer app might have launched earlier upgrades, but there isn't one, that I am aware of, for Windows 8. Office 2013 uses the Cloud...not sure of any features which make use of touch there or a stylus which are a 'must have.' Visual Studio....again, not sure of any touch features there. So...no killer app? Just a new interface built around hardware that only 10% of the customers have, and is useless for giant monitors / projectors / etc. without some special hardware?

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Happy

Re: How about you listen to feedback _before_ you RTM next time?

"blood interface"

Some sort of edition of Windows for Klingons?

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Joke

Re: How about you listen to feedback _before_ you RTM next time?

"Some sort of edition of Windows for Klingons?"

Sounds like the way people are describing their struggles with Windows 8 it is already suitable for a warrior to take on as a challenge.

"Today is a good die for Modern UI to die."

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Linux

Klingon code

That explains everything!

http://aumha.org/a/klingon.php

particularly Number 1: “Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!”

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Devil

Heavy breathing by an acolyte while a voice cackles....

So let's pause for a moment and consider the center. In the center, selling 100 million copies of a product is a good thing. In the center, spewing FUD is a good thing. In the center, pretending that things are true which are not is a good thing.

I can feel the anger rising within you. Good. Now, join us in the center, young developer!

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FAIL

The problem with his thesis

If as he says Windows 8 is a fabulous OS and customers everywhere are eagerly embracing it, enthralled by it... then Frank X. Shaw is the worst "corporate vice president of corporate communications" ever. Because an effective "corporate vice president of corporate communications" would not have to keep coming before the press to say "hey, guys, I don't know if you noticed but... we're not dead yet."

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Re: The problem with his thesis (or to put it another way)

it's enjoyable watching him spooning up his own vomit and trying to make out it's a not-very-nice soup.

In the past week I've lost about a day dealing with your assorted shit interfaces and lack of documentation - about 20% of my time. An entire day I could have had off.

I hate microsoft products because I have to work with windows/vis. studio/mssql every day - I have reason to hate them.

Hope your choice of %FizzyDrink%takes the taste away. Which reminds me of just how shit writing stuff in DOS CLI is. And I don't trust MS enough to learn powershell, you'll fuck that up soon enough.

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They got the same picking on with Vista. But with Vista it really wasn't Microsoft's fault so much as Intel and their crappy drivers and hardware. But with Windows 8 it's every bit Microsoft's fault and they deserve the criticism. Their new interface made the OS easy to use on tablets but considerably harder to use on traditional desktop machines. The need to do better.

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"But with Vista it really wasn't Microsoft's fault so much as Intel and their crappy drivers and hardware"

The driver issue was down to hardware makers in part, but MS shouldn't have released it if there wasn't hardware support. And there are plenty of other things wrong with Vista that were never fixed, and they were MS' fault.

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Windows

It's all about the drivers??

<= not

That has got to be the best defence not to use.

Usually there's someone replying to a thread such as this saying they'd switch to Linux in a heartbeat if only it had the drivers for this or that (may be they should actually check http://www.zdnet.com/device-support-in-windows-vs-linux-4010018141/)

Windows is a supply-side play. Microsoft could just pay to get the drivers written and recover the cost over time with licence fees revenue. If the drivers haven't been written that points to a Microsoft fail not a need for customer understanding.

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Being critical of Microsoft...

Is SO easy. That's why we do it, and will continue to do it.

We know that Microsoft doesn't care, and never will, so we will be critical for quite a long time.

Get over it. We know Microsoft products are just an effort to maintain your monopoly, and due to all your tie-ins and non published "standards", we're stuck. Hell yes we are critical!

And yes, I use Linux as much as I can, even at work where they foistered a laptop on me (it had W7, and the first thing I did was load Fedora 17 on it).

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Being critical of Microsoft...

Of course Microsoft don't care, no company 'cares', the notion itself is ridiculous!. Microsoft exists to make money like EVERY company. By all means be critical but not because the company doesn't care, that is just plain daft!

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Stop

Re: Being critical of Microsoft... - comes at a price.

Why should they stop spending on MS? You might not like British Gas as an energy supplier but it's not up to you to tell schools where they get their electricity or who they buy their textbooks from. Having prejudicial ideas about a company does not give you the right to tell public bodies not to engage with them as a supplier.

Have you actually seen the HUGE discounts Microsoft give to educational and non-profit institutions (or compared these discounts to the measly ones offered by many other software companies)? You will no doubt regard this as evidence of their malevolent intentions to indoctrinate our poor helpless children and students but this really is the overwhelming factor in schools making decisions to buy from Microsoft (along with the fact that the the software works very well for them). Most kids are so IT literate these days that what they use at school doesn't really matter. They are perfectly capable of switching to Ubuntu or something similar if they so wish (it took my 9 year old daughter about 20 mins to get familiar with Ubuntu when I installed it on an old laptop for her a couple of weeks ago).

Anyway there will never be any point in trying to convince you of any of this, you already made your mind up on Microsoft many years ago. Belief is the death of intelligence.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Being critical of Microsoft... - comes at a price.

@Eadon:

You get downvoted, mocked, insulted and so forth, because this is how you behave to other people. It's not too long since you accused anyone who disagreed with you of being a shill, you claimed to have had sex with my mother, why do you think that this makes you deserving of nice treatment? You don't listen to others, you don't discuss, you don't reason, you just trumpet your opinion. You have lost any rights you could have to being treated nicely, it's a two way street.

There are plenty of schools who are deploying school wide iPads to replace aging Windows laptops (and Mac laptops/desktops in many cases, like my father's school.) This is a far more serious problem because they're expensive, fragile and don't run any software that a pupil could conceivably use in the workspace - they don't even have keyboards!

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Re: Being critical of Microsoft... - comes at a price.

"Look at my experiences. I tell the truth about it and am downvoted, mocked, insulted, and so forth. None of this matters of course."

F.O. Eadon, you and your bleeding heart. Maybe the Anti-Defamation League will listen to you.

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Anonymous Coward

@Eadon

"I tell the truth about it and am downvoted, mocked, insulted, and so forth. None of this matters of course."

1) You do not "tell the truth" because...

2) You are ideologically incapable of seeing, knowing, or recognizing the truth, and refuse to entertain any opinion that does not demonize Microsoft, thus...

3) You are a dishonest advocate who merits all the insults you receive.

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Anonymous Coward

Eadon - recognise the irony

I rather love the irony you have produced here.

Because you have been posting your anti Microsoft rants under almost every article, even those where it is wildly offtopic, we now find you mentioned practically everywhere in a negative fashion - even when it's not relevant.

The reason is simple: there is a vast difference between between foaming-at-the-mouth activism and reasoned debate with simple to verify facts where you don't need to be for or against, just have an opinion based on facts. It's even OK that your experience differs completely from the rest of the planet, provided you keep in mind that your experience/opinion is not the one the rest of the world needs to have, or needs to be convinced of.

Thus, your downvotes have become wholly disconnected from any argument you make, because they usually aren't arguments - they are rants. Try educating yourself about reasoned discourse, maybe dial down the Richard Stallman mode a bit and you may gain some respect for what you say.

Ironic fact no 2: you and Microsoft share a seriously damaged image - through your own actions.

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@Anonymous Coward

maybe dial down the Richard Stallman mode a bit

Downvotng you for that. What is your name, Coward?

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