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back to article Israeli activists tell Hawking to yank his Intel chips over Palestine

Professor Stephen Hawking has been accused of hypocrisy by an Israeli activist group after he declined an invitation to speak at an important conference in Jerusalem this June, announcing instead that he's joining a growing academic boycott of Israel in protest of its policies towards Palestine. "Hawking's decision to join the …

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Anonymous Coward

Careful what you wish for.

Reminding academia that they need to put pressure on Intel to only supply all their HPCs from non-Israli-fabbed parts may not have been so clever.

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He should also remove all atoms in his body

<sarcasm>

He should also remove all atoms in his body that have ever been in Israel, stop responding to any gravitational pull from Israel, and not use any mathematical constructs ever developed by an Israeli.

</sarcasm>

Really, Palestinian supporters? The man is already backing you, stop being silly.

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Yag
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Re: He should also remove all atoms in his body

Erm... Perhaps you should look up who this "Nitsana Darshan-Leitner, director of the Shurat HaDin Israel Law Center" is...

Too bad, the sarcasm part was spot on however.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: He should also remove all atoms in his body

Evidently, both you and 8 other people failed to see my statement was in regards to an action Dr. Hawking should perform, not Nitsana Darshan-Leitner should perform - the suggesting is Dr. Hawking should remove his computer, so why should he not be expected to go all the way.

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So if you diss that Intel chip, you get a lawyergram by the Anti-Defamation League?

"His whole computer-based communication system runs on a chip designed by Israel's Intel team"

Yeah, well... it's just the Intel team which happens to be in Israel. It's not like it has been designed by the ultra-right-wingers of the Israeli state. It's not even particulary jewish - or, more the point, zionist (in the worst possible way).

Need to find another argument here.

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Boffin

Re: So if you diss that Intel chip, you get a lawyergram by the Anti-Defamation League?

".....Need to find another argument." Well, you could always wonder why Intel employ a design team in Israel. It's not that the US government paid for it, much as the Fakeistinian supporters like to pretend, and it's not because Intel are run by a bunch of Jewish Zealots. One reason is because Israel has an advanced, stable and developed economy, unlike every one of its Arab neighbours. Unlike Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Abu Dhabi, or any other number of Muslim states, there is not the imminent possibility that Islamist extremists - that all hate American companies - will seize control along with your facilities. Another reason is that Israel has a strong and politically-independent justice system, which means - unlike her Arab neighbours - Intel doesn't have to employ some dodgy prince or sultan to get anything done. And the main reason is because Israel has a lot of very clever engineers, scientists and academics, that can design their own world-beating solutions, unlike their Arab neighbours who just "develop" third hand Western tech (usually with China's or North Korea's assistance).

The Israeli team that developed the Core technology did so in competition with all the other Intel design teams. What the Fakeistinians and the Arabs hate to admit is that Intel cannot put a development team in any Arab nation because they are too under developed, unstable, and uneducated. The best Arab minds usually have to go to Western countries to find education and deployment. Indeed, I bet the one-sided "advice" Hawking got from the Fakeistinian "academics" was from ones living and working in the "infidel" West.

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Re: So if you diss that Intel chip, you get a lawyergram by the Anti-Defamation League?

And America's missiles and space program were designed by "a lot of very clever engineers, scientists and academics" from Nazi Germany - funny old world isn't it ?

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Re: So if you diss that Intel chip, you get a lawyergram by the Anti-Defamation League?

prey tell when you were last in any of these "Arab neighbours"? You are seriously comparing Abu Dhabi to Syria?

(2 british passport holding neutral here)

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Anonymous Coward

Re: So if you diss that Intel chip, you get a lawyergram by the Anti-Defamation League?

"(2 british passport holding neutral here)"

I thought you needed three British passports these days? Apparently some countries' immigration officials were suspicious of those who might have a duplicate passport with Israeli visas - and started asking "do you have two British passports?". A bright British consular official found that the pedantic way round the problem was to issue two duplicates - giving a total of three.

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Unhappy

I am also not finding the Intel connection

Intel's care of Dr. Hawking is compassionate, not political. And not compassionate for Dr. Hawking, but for the future generations he might yet inform. Also, it is a goldmine of research into care for others of this sort.

Not seeing the Intel connection to the politicized situation here.

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Re: I am also not finding the Intel connection

"I suggest that if he truly wants to pull out of Israel he should also pull out his Intel Core i7 from his tablet."

I find this attitude deeply disgusting. What next, they'll find out that some components in his wheelchair were also made in Israel, and they'll demand the good professor be tipped out of it.

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Boffin

Re: Yet Another Clueless Coward Re: So if you diss that Intel chip.....

"And America's missiles and space program were designed by "a lot of very clever engineers, scientists and academics" from Nazi Germany....." The German contribution to the US's missile and space programs was considerable, but is often overstated in an attempt to denigrate US scientists. For example, Werner von Braun's work was a development of the pre-War work of US scientist Robert Goddard, and without Goddard's foundation von Braun's achievements would not have happened. Whilst the von Braun fanclub likes to shout long and loud about his achievements, most of them have never even heard of Goddard.

What people like you fail to realise is that development of rockets during the War was on hold in the Allied countries, as they concentrated on realistic projects that could actually be applied to winning the War. In the cloud-cuckoo-land of Nazi Germany, however, any and every idea - that usually had no chance of doing anything other than diverting German resources from actual good designs such as the early Heinkel jets - was followed with gusto. The German rocket program had a negligible effect on the course of the War. Indeed, some German scientists took advantage of the Nazi's poor grasp of science to carry on their pre-War research whilst pretending to make superweapons. Heisenberg was a good example of this when he used Nazi funds and resources to continue his work on nuclear reactor designs whilst telling the Nazis he was building them an atomic bomb. Meanwhile, in the US, where a much tighter control was exercised on scientists, the Allies actually developed the first atomic weapons. But it is understandable that someone like you with no grasp of history would fail to realise the difference between focused research and "blue-sky" projects, and somehow think the former meant the US was unskilled.

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Re: c4m1k4z3 Re: So if you diss that Intel chip, you get a lawyergram by the Anti-Defamation League?

"prey tell when you were last in any of these "Arab neighbours"?...." Last year, actually.

".....You are seriously comparing Abu Dhabi to Syria?" The underlying problem of a despotic, dictatorial elite ruling over an oppressed people (though you might say the Abu Dhabians have a gilded cage) is fundamentally the same in both Syria and Abu Dhabi, though one is a "revolutionary" dictator and the other is a historic monarchy. The Sunni-Shia schism is playing out in both. In the case of Syria it is the Sunni Gulf States pushing the Sunni clans into unseating the Allawite government as part of their ongoing Cold War with Iran, whilst in Abu Dhabi it is Iran stirring up the Shias against the Sunni rulers. Whilst the Al Nahyan family has the oil money to try and bribe their Shias with social programs, Assad is all out of luck in Syria. The worry for the Sunni Saudis is what happens if one of the Gulf States sees a full-blown Shia revolution, they believe it could have a domino effect across the area, hence their quickly sending their army in to support their fellow Sunnis in Bahrain in 2011, and if the problems escalate in Abu Dhabi then the Saudis will get involved there too. Oh, by the way, the Saudi officer that discussed the very issue with me last year used the domino analogy without realising he was echoing the American tone when they talked themselves into the Vietnam conflict.

But I see you do not contest the idea that Intel would be unable to build a development team in Abu Dhabi, though.

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Yag
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Re: Yet Another Clueless Coward So if you diss that Intel chip.....

" In the cloud-cuckoo-land of Nazi Germany, however, any and every idea - that usually had no chance of doing anything other than diverting German resources from actual good designs such as the early Heinkel jets - was followed with gusto."

Nope, this was for another reason. Research on artillery systems was prohibited by the treaty of Versailles, so the german had to find alternative systems. Rocket systems for example.

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Re: Yag Re: Yet Another Clueless Coward So if you diss that Intel chip.....

"Nope, this was for another reason. Research on artillery systems was prohibited by the treaty of Versailles, so the german had to find alternative systems. Rocket systems for example." Complete cobblers. Hitler and the Nazis carried out research and weapons development in many areas banned by the Treaty of Versailles, including railway artillery (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/german-artillery-of-world-war-ii-railway-artillery.htm). The whole Luftwaffe was a very good example, the Treaty banning Germany from having any air force! Indeed, the Nazis went on to build and use the biggest examples of railway artillery the World has seen. What rocket technology offered was longer range than railway guns and with an even bigger payload, and it appealed to Hitler's "gee-whizz" fascination with projecting an image of Aryan supremacy as Germany having the most advanced scientists in the World.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Yet Another Clueless Coward So if you diss that Intel chip.....

"In the cloud-cuckoo-land of Nazi Germany, however, any and every idea - that usually had no chance of doing anything other than diverting German resources from actual good designs such as the early Heinkel jets - was followed with gusto. "

The threat to Britain from the V1 and V2 rockets was quite serious. There was no defence against the V2. Historical comments say that it was fortunate that they only came into effect so late in the war. I have a yellowed war-time daily newspaper where the British Government finally gave an accurate public technical explanation for the recent large explosions - previously glossed as "accidents".

The Germans had a very effective fighter in the Me262 twin engined jet. However Hitler would not countenance a defensive role - and ordered it to be primarily developed as a light bomber.

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@Matt

you made some good points, but let yourself down with the use of "Fakestinian"

the way i see it, everyone in this mess is a twat, Steve for being clueless about the middle east, and the bit of an idjeet who asked him to stop using an intel processor.

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Re: AC Re: Yet Another Clueless Coward So if you diss that Intel chip.....

"The threat to Britain from the V1 and V2 rockets was quite serious....." Not really. The short range of the V1 meant that as soon as the Allies swept into Europe and captured the launch sites it became irrelevant. Like the V2 it was an area effect weapon of very limited military value and did nothing to stop the Allied invasion of France. Once the British AA had been re-arranged and the correct fighters (mainly RAF Tempests and Mosquitos) employed the V1 threat was massively reduced. The V1 was effective in that it was cheap and simple to produce, but that also made it easier to intercept.

A grand total of 1,402 V2s hit the UK between September 1944 and March 1945, each delivering a 2,200Lb warhead (though some simply had concrete heads as explosives production lagged due to Allied bombing). Whilst they killed 2,754 civilians in London with another 6,523 injured, the entire V2 campaign failed to hit a single weapons factory. During the same period the RAF alone dropped many tens of thousands of tons of bombs to much greater effect on Germany, massively reducing the German's industrial capability but also smashing their fuel industry, a much greater strategic triumph than scaring British civilians. With the Panzers running out of fuel and their own people starving, it was ironic that the Nazis had to use 30 tons of potatoes to make the fuel for each V2. And that's ignoring that each V2 used up material and resources that could have been used for making German jets, which would have been of greater strategic impact.

".....There was no defence against the V2...." Rubbish. There were three very effective counter-measures. The first, and simplest, was that British Intelligence leaked a story through neutrals that the V2s were mainly falling 10-20 miles beyond London. The Germans fell for it, adjusted the launch trajectories, and the majority of V2s fell in rural Kent. The second was the Resistance and Allied spies, which identified factories, associated stores and launch sites for Allied attack. The third was simply the Allied advance into Germany that finished the War in Europe.

"....Historical comments say that it was fortunate that they only came into effect so late in the war....." You really need to do a bit more in-depth research rather than just watching the Discovery Channel. The entire V2 project used more materials, resources, scientist and technical effort, than the Manhattan Project did in delivering the atomic bomb. Which do you think had the bigger impact on the War? Whilst Churchill worried about civilian casualties, he is on record as acknowledging that each V2 fired by the Germans was the equivalent to one less German jet bomber overhead or a Tiger tank in the frontline. The Germans manufactured over 4,000 V2s, many of which were never launched, so just imagine if they had made 4,000 jets or 4,000 more Tiger tanks instead. The V1 and V2 were just desperate and vindictive attempts at revenge when the Germans had already lost the War.

".....The Germans had a very effective fighter in the Me262 twin engined jet..." The first practical German jet fighter was the Heinkel He.280, which easily bested an FW190 fighter in a demonstration mock dogfight in 1941. The Germans could have massed produced it for 1942 and it would have been superior to all Allied fighters until the arrival of the Gloster Meteor III, and could have maintained air superiority until the arrival of the even better Me262. But the Germans had fooled themselves into the idea the War would be won soon and persisted with the conventional designs they had (another example of poor planning). Hitler's interference in the Me262 program is often mentioned but had a relatively minor impact - by the time the Me262 was available in numbers, even if they had all been used as fighters, they were too few to affect the course of the War. In fact, more fighter Me262s were shot down by Allied piston-engined fighters (usually when the Me262s were low and slow during landings) than Allied aircraft the Me262s managed to shoot down in fighting Allied bomber fleets.

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fair enough

He should replace the lenovos with a couple of AMD jobs then - just to show them.

Anyway, top marks to Davros for taking a stand.

To suggest that just because something he uses is made there, means he can't disagree with Israel's determined efforts to recreate the Warsaw getto, but with them on the outside this time is moronic.

In my professional dealing I try to avoid all dealings with Isrealli companies for the same reasons.

Yes, my mac has an i7 in it, but I don't remember ticking a box saying ' I agree that by buying an i7 I am happy with Israel's (american funded) policy of eradicating Palestinians from the last part of the county we (the UK) were stupid enough to give you in the 50s.

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Re: fair enough

You basically just wrote what I wanted to write, but a lot more eloquently.

Though I think the 'Davros' comment may get you a few downvotes!)

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Re: fair enough

So I suppose in your professional dealing you also try to avoid all dealings with Chinese companies because of China's brutal occupation of Tibet, or China's less than stellar record of human rights.?

Or is your fake outrage only reserved for certain ethic group, a bit like Hawking who's new found morality didn't put a dampener on his trip to China a few years back?

Speaking of human rights, one wonders why Hawking instead of taking the moral hight ground saw fit to attend a conference in Iran, yes that last bastion of human rights where homosexuality is punishable by death and political dissidents are tortured and hanged.

Hypocrisy, yours, Hawking's equally as ugly.

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Trollface

Re: fair enough

>'Davros' comment may get you a few downvotes

Be a laugh to hack the voice synthesizer though wouldn't it

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Re: fair enough

@clivel

You are just in a temper because Davros isn't fighting your corner.

He's a ill man, let him pick his own battles.

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Mr Hawking, you should listen to “Palestinian academics”

He “received a number of emails from Palestinian academics”.

Let's see what each side has given to humanity:

Israel and the Jews:

• The Bible

• The ten commandments

• First true humanistic monotheism

• Care obligation for the weak in the society in the ancient world

• Personal hygiene requirements – first in the ancient world

• Einstein’s theories

• Intel chips (from 8080 to Core iX) - design and manufacturing (developed in Haifa, produced in Kiryat Malachi)

• First modern cell phone (Motorola)

• Most of the Windows NT and XP operating systems were developed by Microsoft-Israel

• ICQ, intant messengers

• X-Box Kinect

• Pill-camera

• B-stent for heart operations

• MRI/Ultrasound/Nuclear scanners

• Drip irrigation which improved the lives of hundreds of millions in drought stricken countries

• large-scale solar energy generating plant in southern California (Mojave desert)

• Disk-on-key, SMS, voice-mail, multi-channel civilian radio recording

• Hundreds of start-ups on Nasdaq

• Dozens of Nobel prize winners in various sciences

And what has the Palestinian nation given to humanity? Let me think, oh yes:

• civilian airplane hijacking;

• international terrorism; and

• the civilian-targeting suicide bombing, as supported by a great majority of the Palestinian society.

Yes, Mr Hawking, you should listen to “Palestinian academics”.

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WTF?

Re: Mr Hawking, you should listen to “Palestinian academics”

> • The Bible

> • The ten commandments

> • First true humanistic monotheism

I'm sorry, was this supposed to bolster your argument?

I think you also need to realise that there is a distinct difference between the Israeli people and the politics of their government. A clue: they are different.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Mr Hawking, you should listen to “Palestinian academics”

To quote a Gulf Arab friend of mine, "We don't have a problem with Jews; we have a problem with Israel."

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Re: Mr Hawking, you should listen to “Palestinian academics”

"We don't have a problem with Jews; we have a problem with Israel."

ever read the Qur'an, man? Let me enlighten you. There is no mention of the State of Israel in the Qur'an, but boy do they have a problem with Jews there. For example, as reproduced faithfully in the Hamas Charter from a hadith (canon interpretation of the Qur'an):

"The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: "The Day of Judgment will not come about until the Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them), until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: Oh Muslim! Oh Abdullah!, there is a Jew behind me, come on and kill him. Only the Gharqad tree would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews.""

So, my foe, do you still believe that the problem is "with Israel", or you continue to be a naïve fool, a useful idiot?

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Re: Mr Hawking, you should listen to “Palestinian academics”

If you want to include Jews, then you have to also include Arabs and other Muslims.

They have invented quite a large number of things, like our number system, lots of developments in mathematics, the first university, lots of stuff related to astronomy, windmills, and I could go on.

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WTF?

Re: Mr Hawking, you should listen to “Palestinian academics”

Mr Asher,

I think you'll find that you get little sympathy here for that kind of lunacy.

Quoting religious scripture is not evidence of anything. One religious whack job is as bad as any other.

So Muslims and Jews hate each other? Neither Mr Hawking nor many others on this side of the world really give a shit about your petty religious squabbles. They are beyond contempt.

What we do care about is normal decent human beings on both side of the border just trying to live their lives without getting blown up. That single point seems to get lost in the midst of all the rhetoric and silly religious bickering.

Do us all a favour and become atheists. The world would be a better, decent place because of it.

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Re: Mr Hawking, you should listen to “Palestinian academics”

Asher, you know full well that there are many Israeli-Arabs living in Israel without becoming terrorists.

At the same time, how would you feel if your land was invaded, house bulldozed, and the invading force kept building settlements on your land?

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Re: skelband Re: Mr Hawking, you should listen to “Palestinian academics”

"....I think you also need to realise that there is a distinct difference between the Israeli people and the politics of their government. A clue: they are different." Actually the Israeli government is democratically elected so their view reflects the that of the majority of Israelis. Fakeistian "President" Abbas was not elected and holds no mandate, having imposed an extension on his period in office (without a murmur of disproven from the UN, one notes), and the Fakeistinians voted overwhelming for Hamas, which has a stated aim of wiping Israel off the map and ethnically cleansing all of "Palestine" of Jews (and then Christians and any other faith, including minor Islamic ones).

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Re: Mr Hawking, you should listen to “Palestinian academics”

Wow, that's nearly asone-sided as claiming that the major UK contribution to WW2 was the fact that we invented concentration camps...

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Re: AC Re: Mr Hawking, you should listen to “Palestinian academics”

"To quote a Gulf Arab friend of mine, "We don't have a problem with Jews; we have a problem with Israel."" LOL! please ask him what exactly is his problem with Israel then? Is it that he thinks there shouldn't be one Jewish nation when there are dozens of Islamic states? Or maybe it's that he thinks Jews are OK, just as long as they are not in the same country as him? Does he think Israel is "wrong" because he dislikes the idea of Jews not being in dhimmitude to Arabs? Maybe he thinks Israel is "wrong" because his parents and teachers brought him up to believe that once a land is conquered by the Islamic horde it is Islamic for ever. The history of widespread support in the Gulf for the Arab wars against Israel suggest he is probably talking porkies.

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Re: jonathanb Re: Mr Hawking, you should listen to “Palestinian academics”

".....They have invented quite a large number of things, like our number system, lots of developments in mathematics, the first university, lots of stuff related to astronomy, windmills, and I could go on." No you can't, because you're talking cobblers. The majority of "great Arab achievements" were inherited from the Greeks, Chinese or Persians, nothing to do with the Arabs. Indeed, one clear constant is the decline in academic standards Islam brings to all countries it dominates.

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Coat

Irony alert!

"Arab...talking porkies"

Mmmmm...not so sure about that.

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Re: Mr Hawking, you should listen to “Palestinian academics”

".....how would you feel if your land was invaded, house bulldozed, and the invading force kept building settlements on your land?" LOL, do you mean like when the Fakeistinains and six Arab nations invaded the newly declared State of Israel in 1948? Or how Hamas and Hezbollah ans Iran state they want to do so now? Please try and think outside your popularist box.

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Stop

Re: skelband Mr Hawking, you should listen to “Palestinian academics”

> Actually the Israeli government is democratically elected so their view reflects the that of the majority of Israelis.

Whether that is true or not depends on whether there is a credible choice.

An awful lot of people in the UK would like a referendum on EU membership, but none of the main political parties have it in their manifesto, which is one of the reasons why UKIP have such a relatively strong following at the moment. So, unless you vote for UKIP (which many believe rightly or wrongly a one-issue party) then you effectively have no vote.

Just because you have a fascist government, doesn't mean all the people are actually fascists.

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Re: Mr Hawking, you should listen to “Palestinian academics”

> .....how would you feel if your land was invaded, house bulldozed, and the invading force kept building settlements on your land?

Probably the same as those unlucky bastards that found themselves living in a new Jewish state just after the war.

Either move out or put the f*ck up with it I guess.

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Holmes

Re: Mr Hawking, you should listen to “Palestinian academics”

Actually it is a fallacy that the Arabs invented the numbers.

The so called Arabic numerals were actually invented in India by the Hindus. When first introduced to Europeans they incorrectly believed them to be Arabic so they have incorrectly retained the name "Arabic Numerals" ever since.

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Re: Mr Hawking, you should listen to “Palestinian academics”

actually the fallacy that that is a fallacy, is in fact a fallacy

let us begin at the beginning...

write down the Hindu symbol for zero...

(hint: you cant do it with out algebra :-D)

gotcha

ask any mathematician it's a pretty important concept

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Re: jonathanb Mr Hawking, you should listen to “Palestinian academics”

"one clear constant is the decline in academic standards Islam brings to all countries it dominates."

I didn't know the US was dominated by islam. Oh wait.

The issue with respect to declining education standards is religion in general, not islam specifically.

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Anonymous Coward

Israel needs to grow up

The problem is that it all began when one of them hit the other back.

Israel is behaving like a spoiled brat of a child. It's the playground bully.

Palestinians are living in squalor because Israel won't let them have anything, it's a repeat of the ghetto.

Yes, some of them do fire rockets and set off bombs. Israel fires artillery rounds and air-to-ground strikes.

This tit-for-tat will continue killing forever, unless one side chooses to stop. And the longer it goes on, the more fear and hatred on both sides.

Compare this with Northern Ireland. How did we get them to stop? It wasn't by walling them in, refusing any travel into the area or killing them - although to our shame, that was tried - it was by talking to their political wing.

Killing yet more people on the other side only escalates the violence and never solved a problem like this - unless Israel intends a "Final Solution", and I would hope their citizens wouldn't agree to that.

We want Israel to grow up and become a responsible adult, instead of the petulant child it currently acts like. That's all!

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Re: jonathanb Mr Hawking, you should listen to “Palestinian academics”

Half-true. There was an Islamic golden age of academics.

It's over now. They were once great, and now are not.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Israel needs to grow up

"We want Israel to grow up and become a responsible adult, instead of the petulant child it currently acts like"

Over the years it appears that Israel's political character has moved from a European model - and is becoming more like its Arab neighbours. This has partly been down to the increasing political influence of the large number of Jews who had fled Arab countries where they had been part of the community for many generations.

Another factor is that the ultra-orthodox Jews are opposed to the compromise aims of the Israeli moderate groups. The former apparently don't care about the State of Israel - but only about their own religious aims in occupying biblical areas. Unfortunately they often have enough democratic voting power to hold a balance in the parliament. Currently their sub-culture also produces more offspring - who are rigidly raised in their dogma - than the more liberal groups.

The Arab Spring is rapidly turning into internal sectarian conflicts fracturing societies on mainly religious schism fault lines. Israel could eventually go the same way.

It took Europe a long time to resolve similar "tribal" differences - and sometimes it appears that some cracks were merely papered over.

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Re: Mr Hawking, you should listen to “Palestinian academics”

" Care obligation for the weak in the society in the ancient world"

Unless you happen to want their land, in which case feel free to slaughter them all and say it was God's will.

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Trollface

Re: Mr Hawking, you should listen to “Palestinian academics”

umm yes zero is a pretty important concept and an undisputed Hindu concept.

Clearly facts are of no use to you, who would rather use deception to bolster an argument than stick to the facts.

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