back to article Bill Gates offends Koreans after sticking hand down trousers

Bill Gates has managed to offend the whole of South Korea after brazenly breaking the country's strict but unwritten handshake rules. He greeted female President Geun Hye Park with the customary one-handed palm press, but neglected to remove his other hand from his trouser pocket. Using one mitt with the other stuffed in a …

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  1. ChrisInBelgium
    Holmes

    So?

    Using one mitt with the other stuffed in a pocket is considered extremely rude in Korea. It is a manoeuvre only carried out "when someone feels superior to whoever they are greeting".

    He DOES feel superior to whoever he is greeting.

    1. LarsG
      Meh

      Maybe

      The Koreans should be a little more understanding, especially considering he is a 'foreigner' to them.

      We in the West have to be tolerant in this age of multiculturalism and have to bend over backwards to accommodate every 'johnny foreigners' foibles.

      If we can do it, so should they.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Maybe

        Therein lies the problem.

        Certainly in the UK, we have to break backs to accommodate foreign culture and its ways, whereas if we go to 99.9% of the countries from which we receive immigrants or asylum seekers, we get fuck all in the way of accommodation for our needs and wants.

        1. oddie
          Coat

          Re: Maybe

          seeing as the president has bent over backwards to let the country know that she is (and the should be) accomodating his american ways, and seeing as the ones howling about being mortally offended by his lack of 'being exactly like us and respecting our culture' are probably the korean equivalent of the uk daily mail reader, I put to you that the uk and south korea has more in common than you would think :)

          "hold jacket in one hand, put other hand in jacked pocket, shake bum at president" icon used for obvious reasons :)

          1. oddie

            Re: Maybe

            (and the should be) = (and that they (the country) should be)

          2. Dave 126

            Re: Maybe

            Though much of James Dyson's autobiography is a fairly tedious account of his patent struggles, he did relate his experience of Japan. He sought the services of consultants who advised to learn the customs, and to work out someone's status so as to choose the appropriate greeting, and so much other stuff that he just thought:

            "Sod it... I'm never going to convince them that I'm Japanese, and anyway they want me here because I'm not one of them... I may as well act like an Englishman, and concentrate on delivering what I'm here to do."

            That's not to say that you shouldn't keep some basic human wits about you when abroad... even as a child, I remember a funeral passing through the square of small French town... and all bystanders took off their hats and looked respectful, except for one loudly dressed American family.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Maybe

              " I remember a funeral passing through the square of small French town... and all bystanders took off their hats and looked respectful, except for one loudly dressed American family."

              Everybody was wearing hats? Were you a victorian child?

              Shame on the 'mericans for not changing the colour of their clothes as it went past though.

            2. Fibbles

              Re: Maybe

              My knowledge of the history of the handshake is admittedly extremely limited but I had thought that (at least in it's modern incarnation,) the handshake was a Western greeting. It's a very peculiar situation we have here then, for a Westerner like Bill Gates to be lectured by the Korean press for incorrectly performing a greeting from his own culture.

              As others have noted though, it's likely the only people kicking up a fuss are the Korean equivalent of the Daily Mail.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Maybe

          @AC - "if we go to 99.9% of the countries from which we receive immigrants or asylum seekers, we get fuck all in the way of accommodation for our needs and wants."

          You sound like my parents, who take a box of tea bags with them whenever they go abroad. They also read the Daily Mail, much to my shame.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Facepalm

            Re: Maybe

            "You sound like my parents, who take a box of tea bags with them whenever they go abroad."

            Which is obviously completely unlike all the foreign visitors bringing all their own foodstuffs and drinks into britain when they visit. I mean they're british, so obviously its being insular and xenophobic, whereas a foreigner bringing what they like with them is merely them enjoying their cultural heritage. Right?

            "They also read the Daily Mail, much to my shame."

            Well don't worry, when you get around to wearing long trousers you'll find out that the world isn't quite the fluffy skip down the street together multi-culti love in you obviously think it is.

            1. Alfred

              Re: Maybe

              "Well don't worry, when you get around to wearing long trousers you'll find out that the world isn't quite the fluffy skip down the street together multi-culti love in you obviously think it is."

              Although if you read the Daily Mail, you think that women and immigrants cause cancer.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                if you read the Daily Mail, you think that women and immigrants cause cancer

                women, immigrants, and anything that affects the Editor's status as chair of the Ignore Press Complaints Commission.

            2. elderlybloke
              Unhappy

              Re: Maybe

              Dear boltar,

              Any Limey or other foreign devil who tries to bring their own food in with them when they visit New Zealand will have it confiscated and fined if they don't declare it.

              Only get it confiscated if they declare it.

              Why? Well we don't have many nasty things here like Foot and Mouth and nasty Bugs that could destroy our Agricultural industry>

          2. Captain Scarlet Silver badge
            Paris Hilton

            Re: Maybe

            @Chris Wareham:

            I take teabags with me :S

            Whats wrong with me disliking everyone elses tea, no-one has ever had an issue making me tea with my own tea bags.

            1. Psyx

              Re: Maybe

              I take teabags with me too, because everyone else's are swill. But that's rather a different matter to not bother learning manners.

          3. MrXavia
            Thumb Up

            Re: Maybe @Chris Wareham

            So do I! have you ever tasted the tea outside the UK? vile stuff! impossible to get a decent lady grey or even earl grey.... Odd as it may sound, I always take tea to China... they may know & grow very good tea, but they have no idea how to blend it like we do!

            1. Dana W

              Re: Maybe @Chris Wareham

              I drink Twinings and I'm an American. Is that acceptable enough? If its good enough for the queen after all, or so the warrant says.

              I can't vouch for the rest of us "foreigners" but its not 1960, you can get real tea here now. Though you won't get it in a restaurant. Even in coffee houses that have had theoretically good tea, I have had VERY terse discussions with the help about the difference between hot and boiling water.

              Most restaurants end up having Lipton's or worse. Usually steeped in a glass of (sort of) hot water. And it tastes like hot water poured through a new broom. A lot of people I've known say they don't like tea, I have had to make it for them to change their opinion, because most of them have never HAD decent tea.

              I used to work a night shift job and drank Twinings Irish Breakfast to keep me going all night, and when my co-workers wound come in in the morning I'd be brewing it and they would exclaim, "That smells great! What is that?" And I'd have to explain that it was tea, and they would be shocked. Again because to far too many of the people here, sadly, tea is either Lipton's in luke warm water, or a bag of various herbs containing no actual tea usually consumed by their new agey girlfriend in college.

              I wish they still made Twinnings Queen Mary.........

              1. hayseed

                Re: Maybe @Chris Wareham

                Lipton's makes me embarrassed to be an American sometimes..

          4. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Maybe

            "You sound like my parents, who take a box of tea bags with them whenever they go abroad."

            Mine are the same. Even when they go to France they insist on taking their own shoes, because they like the shoes they have, and might want to wear them while they're out there. Instead of getting properly into the culture by wearing a french pair of shoes the whole time they're there. Weird, isn't it?

            Anyway, got to run, need to go kimono shopping for my upcoming trip to Japan.

        3. David Cantrell
          Go

          Re: Maybe

          Yes, we do try to accomodate other peoples' cultures. That's what makes us a more attractive target for immigration than most other places, and why we, with the help of immigrants, do so much better than most other places, attracting the best, brightest, most driven people from those other places.

          1. Nuke
            Flame

            @David Cantrell - Re: Maybe

            Wrote :- "Yes, we do try to accomodate other peoples' cultures. That's ... why we, with the help of immigrants, do so much better than most other places, attracting the best, brightest, most driven .."

            And you, no doubt priding yourself on being worldly, don't give any thought as to whether those other countries might have needed those "bright" (as you believe) people? But lets not mention also the scum who come here because things have become too hot for them back home, getting away from the moderating influence of parents and family, and importing their crime and their violent political and religious feuds.

            And it depends on what you mean by doing "better". Perhaps you mean living in a place looking increasingly like an overcrowded airport lounge, sitting in traffic jams, and seeing what is left of our green spaces being rapidly concreted over to house everyone in ever more cramped living spaces.

        4. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Maybe

          > we get fuck all in the way of accommodation for our needs and wants.

          Oh, apart from that little nicety of generally speaking to us in our own language, but I guess that's nothing?

          1. NomNomNom

            Re: Maybe

            To people saying it's not offensive because Bill Gates is a foreigner, what would YOU say if Bill Gates walked up to the queen of England, slapped her round the face and said FUCK YOU. We need to be more careful.

            1. apjanes
              Angel

              Re: Maybe

              With all due respect, the comparison being drawn is a little extreme. Slapping someone round the face and swearing (most likely with an aggressive tone that you would notice even if you didn't understand the language) is offensive in pretty much ANY culture. A better comparison might be Bill Gates dining with the queen and not stopping eating when she does. A faux pas for sure, but forgiveable.

              1. Adam 1

                Re: Maybe

                " A better comparison might be Bill Gates dining with the queen and not stopping eating when she does."

                Damn, I didn't know that one either.

                1. This post has been deleted by its author

            2. Kubla Cant
              Thumb Down

              Re: Maybe

              @NomNomNom what would YOU say if Bill Gates walked up to the queen of England, slapped her round the face and said FUCK YOU

              Don't be stupid. The problem in Korea was an accidental infringement of a local cultural convention. There are plenty of countries where greeting somebody with your hand in your pocket isn't a problem, but I don't suppose you can instance a single one where slapping somebody's face and saying "fuck you" isn't deliberately offensive.

            3. Richard 22
              FAIL

              Re: Maybe

              {quote}

              To people saying it's not offensive because Bill Gates is a foreigner, what would YOU say if Bill Gates walked up to the queen of England, slapped her round the face and said FUCK YOU. We need to be more careful.

              {quote}

              That only makes sense if Bill Gates genuinely wouldn't have known that to be offensive. Since that would be considered extremely offensive in America too, I think it's a particularly bad example.

            4. Felix Krull

              Re: Maybe

              What would YOU say if Bill Gates walked up to the queen of England, slapped her round the face and said FUCK YOU.

              I'm a staunch royalists and I'd laugh for a week.

            5. Triggerfish

              Re: Maybe @NomNomNom

              Excessive use of hyperbole methinks

            6. Panix
              Thumb Up

              Re: Maybe

              Successful troll is successful

            7. Anonymous Coward
              FAIL

              Re: Maybe

              > slapped her round the face and said FUCK YOU.

              Point taken, but there's a world of difference between putting your hand in your pocket and physically assaulting someone.

              What is being referred to here is a cultural custom.

              Slapping someone on the face is offensive in any culture.

            8. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Maybe

              "To people saying it's not offensive because Bill Gates is a foreigner, what would YOU say if Bill Gates walked up to the queen of England, slapped her round the face and said FUCK YOU."

              With his other hand in his pocket or out?

        5. Psyx
          Flame

          Re: Maybe

          "Certainly in the UK, we have to break backs to accommodate foreign culture and its ways, "

          Bull.

          Speak many languages, do you?

          Understands the rudiments of other world religions and basic manners in other cultures?

          Frankly, Brits are an embarrassment overseas, overladen with Imperial arrogance and an utter unwillingness to adapt to the manners of others.

          1. Triggerfish

            Re: Maybe

            Bull I know plenty of Brits who have made a good life abroad and live within the culture, and Americans and French and Germans etc. There's also plenty who are twats (and usually they tend not to stay long, or are on holiday and don't give a shit), nationality does not define the individual.

            1. Psyx
              Pint

              Re: Maybe

              "Bull I know plenty of Brits who have made a good life abroad and live within the culture"

              They tend to be an exception case. Most Brits living abroad long-term coral themselves into little alcohol-centred Ex-Pat groups and defiantly demand roast dinners and 'proper beer' from their walled communities. It's really sad to see people willing to earn their wage from another nation, but totally unwilling to in any way blend with local culture or people. Truth is that despite our multi-cultural national identity and the fact that a few British people are blisteringly good at fitting in elsewhere and being accepted, the majority of Brits abroad seem to be close-minded ass-hats, as I'm sure most Ex-Pats will attest to.

              1. Triggerfish

                Re: Maybe @Psyx

                I don't doubt there are. Maybe also the ones I have met because you get to know the group and their friends tend to skew my perspective and so I only tend to meet those who have integrated (as much as you can in some cultures).

                But can't see why you think its only Brits, I have met the same idiots from plenty of other countries as well. Its not just some British disease.

          2. Nuke
            Thumb Down

            @Psyx - Re: Maybe

            Wrote :- "Speak many languages, do you? Understands the rudiments of other world religions and basic manners in other cultures? Frankly, Brits are an embarrassment overseas"

            My daughter goes to a "Catholic" School as it was the best around here (I am agnostic BTW). At this school she was taught more about non-Christian religions than about Christianity. Crazy.

            I am not an embarasment overseas as I never go there.

          3. This post has been deleted by its author

        6. NogginTheNog
          WTF?

          Re: Maybe

          "Certainly in the UK, we have to break backs to accommodate foreign culture and its ways, whereas if we go to 99.9% of the countries from which we receive immigrants or asylum seekers"

          Utter bollocks. I think you'll find most immigrants are happy enough to fit into our society, and avoid those parts of it they're not comfortable with. We certainly don't HAVE to break our backs to accomodate anyone, it's just accomodating others is a civilised thing to do.

      2. pPPPP

        Re: Maybe

        >We in the West have to be tolerant in this age of multiculturalism and have to bend over backwards to

        accommodate every 'johnny foreigners' foibles.

        Is that why we go to 'johnny foreigner' land, get drunk, fight in the streets, get naked, etc. etc. in our thousands?

        If you go to a foreign country you should live by their rules, or fuck off home. This includes covering up when you go to a conservative culture, and not demanding the right to do exactly that in a western culture. If you don't like someone else's culture, wherever it is, put up with it, or don't go there.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Maybe

          I agree with the "when in Rome" attitude but it should work both ways, anyone from a different culture coming to this country should not try an impose their mores/culture upon us. However in the UK we have become so tolerant with the strange behaviour of immigrants that we have lost our own identity and sight of what it means to be British.

          As to getting drunk, fighting and running naked and/or urinating through the streets, this is not only an "English disease", most cultures also know how to have a good time but ignore their own prudes rather than pay them undue attention.

          1. Psyx
            Pint

            Re: Maybe

            "anyone from a different culture coming to this country should not try an impose their mores/culture upon us. However in the UK we have become so tolerant with the strange behaviour of immigrants that we have lost our own identity and sight of what it means to be British."

            I think you'll find that by definition, being British means moving here from somewhere else and then a generation later getting stuffy about people moving here and not respecting our ways.

            Being British is about being multi-cultural. That's who we are. Ironically, it is the very people harping on about 'being British' and being arsey with other cultures who are the least British of all of us.

            1. Vic

              Re: Maybe

              > it is the very people harping on about 'being British' and being arsey with other cultures

              ...The ones who claim to be "pure Anglo-Saxon" without hint of irony in their voices...

              Vic.

        2. Triggerfish

          Re: Maybe

          I agree you respect the countries culture you are in.

          I have also traveled in a few Asian countries where being a foreigner means that you are not as strictly bound by some of their social conventions than you would have been if you had grown up there, they expect you not to know because you are now Johnny foreigner.

          This has included sitting and having chats and drinks with some guys and then being very surprised on a night out when local shopkeepers start bowing to them and showing far more respect than I have who was treating them as equals. Being outside of the culture does get you some leeway when abroad in some surprising ways sometimes.

          1. Psyx

            Re: Maybe

            "Being outside of the culture does get you some leeway when abroad in some surprising ways sometimes."

            It does, but it has to work in conjunction with an understanding and sympathy to local custom, or at least a basic willingness to be polite. The slightly comical, trying to be polite, open, slightly reserved but cheerful Brit persona cuts one an awful lot of slack internationally - be it in the boardroom or around a Bedouin campfire - but it wouldn't cut ANY ice at all if you were attired in an England shirt and asking for chips, while patronising the locals.

            In short: Basic manners and a willingness to treat people fairly can often shine through and provide leeway, even if one is not familiar with the exact local etiquette.

        3. Peter Holgate

          Re: Maybe

          @pPPPP If you want us to behave their way in their country, then make them behave the way we do in our country.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Maybe

        "We in the West have to be tolerant in this age of multiculturalism and have to bend over backwards to accommodate every 'johnny foreigners' foibles."

        The koreans appear to have had more sense than go down the route of "rainbow diversity" multiculturalism and political correctness BS that we've to put up with here thanks to all the deluded liberal brainwashing over the last 30 years, so they just say it the way they see it. Can't blame them really, if its rude there then its rude. End of. However if I was Gates I'd have just said it was my personal Gangnam Style.

      4. Psyx
        Flame

        Re: Maybe

        "The Koreans should be a little more understanding, especially considering he is a 'foreigner' to them."

        Frankly: Balls.

        It takes little effort and a passing familiarity with the idea of good manners to spend about half an hour reading up on basic etiquette when visiting another country. The idea of not bothering to do so before meeting a Prime Minister is staggeringly rude.

        He is foreign to them, but they are foreign to him. The remiss is his, as the visitor.

        Basic. Fscking. Manners.

        "We in the West have to be tolerant in this age of multiculturalism and have to bend over backwards to accommodate every 'johnny foreigners' foibles."

        Wow. That's amazingly bigoted.

        Clearly you're not bending over backwards at all if you refer to the rest of the planet like that and consider that learning basic etiquette is somehow a massive burden that is taking a step too far.

        1. MrXavia

          Re: Maybe @psyx

          Surely someone should have said to him, when greeting in South Korea you should use both hands or something like that? doesn't the South Korean president have advisors who are there to ensure visits go well?

          Although personally I would never shake someones hand on an official function with one hand in my pocket, I'd find that rude, and i'm British!

          But I do also agree with the post around us bending over backwards for multiculturalism... yes lets accept them into our country, but there is no need for us to bend over backwards to accomodate their culture, they should respect our culture as much as we would respect theirs when we visit their country...

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