back to article British bookworms deem Amazon 'evil'

“My only real prediction is that it’s all changing.” Well, ask a stupid question - in this case, about the future of book publishing. The lobotomy-inducingly obvious answer was provided by author Neil Gaiman. If I’d written this prediction here on El Reg, I would have been derided as a time-waster specialising in stating the …

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  1. Evil Auditor Silver badge

    Re "famous Neil Gaiman"

    Who the fuck is Neil Gaiman?

    1. Cave Dweller
      Trollface

      Re: Re "famous Neil Gaiman"

      http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Neil+Gaiman

    2. Ian K
      Boffin

      Re: Re "famous Neil Gaiman"

      If only there was some sort of "engine for searching" out there. Better still, one freely accessible to all, maybe on the internet or somewhere like that.

      A ridiculous idea, I know, but one can always dream...

      1. Kubla Cant

        Re: Re: Re "famous Neil Gaiman"

        I think the purpose of a sentence like "Who the fuck is X?" is less to elicit information than to emphasise the obscurity of X. Googling X won't help achieve that.

        1. Evil Auditor Silver badge
          Thumb Up

          Re: Re "famous Neil Gaiman"

          Kubla Cant, thank you. For stating the what I thought was obvious :-)

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Re "famous Neil Gaiman"

          "I think the purpose of a sentence like "Who the fuck is X?" is less to elicit information than to emphasise the obscurity of X."

          It is also commonly used to emphasise how well one has separated oneself from from pop culture and various other frivolous trappings of civilisation. "Look how much of a philistine I am! I don't even know who X is!" is a curiously frequent boast on the internet; I'm not at all sure why people take such pride in it.

          1. TeeCee Gold badge
            Facepalm

            Re: Re "famous Neil Gaiman"

            "...less to elicit information than to emphasise the obscurity of X."

            Which, as it adds yet another reference to X to the world's search engines, has exactly the opposite effect.

        3. Ian K
          Trollface

          Re: Re "famous Neil Gaiman"

          @Kubla - Yeah, I did consider that...but as there didn't seem to be much to choose between "really not knowing who Neil Gaiman is" and "knowing who Neil Gaiman is but also thinking he's obscure" I when for the first option.

          Still, if the OP wants to flaunt feigned ignorance rather and actual ignorance that's their call.

          1. Don Jefe
            Happy

            Re: Re "famous Neil Gaiman"

            I actually have no idea who he is. I'm going to look him up though.

      2. VeganVegan
        Devil

        Re: Re "famous Neil Gaiman"

        I believe the issue is'nt not knowing how to find out,

        it's not wanting to know at all, as in:

        "I'd be ashamed to know that".

      3. JEDIDIAH
        Linux

        Re: Re "famous Neil Gaiman"

        > If only there was some sort of "engine for searching" out there.

        Isn't there a Thatcher quote about having power and being a lady? If you have to say you so, then it isn't true.

        Well, you can apply that same logic to Google.

        If you need Google, then he's probably a nobody or a has-been.

    3. Alistair Dabbs

      Re: Re "famous Neil Gaiman"

      Point taken but I really did think that El Reg readers would know who he is. In future, I will do as newspapers do and write an accreditation before the name - such as "Harry Potter star Richard Griffiths" or "Transformers The Movie voice actor Orson Wells".

      1. Turtle

        I know who the fuck Neil Gaiman is...

        "Point taken but I really did think that El Reg readers would know who he is..."

        I know who the fuck Neil Gaiman is. He's the creep who's worth $20 million, and still goes to raise $20,000 on Kickstarted to finance a poetry tour with his wife, Amanda Snout (nee Palmer). Snout, if you recall, when trying to raise $300,000 on Kickstarter for a new album raised $1.2 million and then tried to enlist pickup musicians to play live with her for "hugs, high fives, and beer" (or some such insulting shite.)

        Yes indeed. I could go on. Because I know who Neil Gaiman is.

        1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

          Re: I know who the fuck Neil Gaiman is...

          > when trying to raise $300,000 on Kickstarter for a new album raised $1.2 million and then tried to enlist pickup musicians to play live with her for "hugs, high fives, and beer" (or some such insulting shite.)

          Everyone loves a trier... More fool those who handed over the $1.2m...

          1. Turtle

            @Phil O'Sophical Re: I know who the fuck Neil Gaiman is...

            "Everyone loves a trier... More fool those who handed over the $1.2m..."

            I don't really have a problem with people giving her money to finance the album - although the fact that either her wealthy husband didn't want to invest in it himself, or that Snout herself preferred to put out a tin cup and go begging, is telling. I do think that the people who contributed even after the original monetary goal was reached were kind of foolish, considering how many more worthwhile things could have been done with their money.

            What I have a problem with, is that Snout, after having gotten what is by *any* standard a large sum of money, was still looking for donations in the form of free labor. I don't know about anyone else, but I would expect someone who has just been the recipient of such generosity (whether merited or not is immaterial) to show some generosity to others, but that didn't happen in Snout's case. Really, it would have been no kind of financial burden for her to have paid these "volunteers" something. But she didn't want too; she seemed to have thought that she had better things to do with the money that she panhandled than to pay the musicians...

            And there's another interesting point. Evidently Snout wanted these charity musicians not for *all* the gigs that were going to support the album, but for some gigs; which if I recall were venues in smaller places, less likely to be reviewed by critics. So if you were in one of these smaller markets, you could have given her money to do the album (and incidentally paid off her personal debts) and then paid money to see the show supporting the album, and gotten to see her play with charity musicians who were donating their time and labor - because Snout was only going to pay the *real* musicians for the big gigs.

            Nice.

            I understand your point that "everyone loves a trier" but I don't agree with it. I think that certain situations (and maybe most situations) impose moral obligations on people, and this was one of them.

      2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Re: Re "famous Neil Gaiman"

        In future, I will do as newspapers do and write an accreditation before the name - such as "Harry Potter star Richard Griffiths" or "Transformers The Movie voice actor Orson Wells".

        A bold move by noted accreditationist Alistair Dabbs!

    4. Turtle

      @Evil Auditor

      "Who the fuck is Neil Gaiman?"

      I don't know why people seem to be having trouble understanding this. To me it obviously meant "Who the fuck is Neil Gaiman that I should care about his opinion?"

      Kind of like if someone said to me, "You need a haircut" and then I would rebut such a statement with the very simple question "Who the fuck are you?" - or, with the suppressed clause being made explicit: "Who the fuck are you that makes you think that you opinion is worth fuck-all, and who the fuck are you that makes you think that *I* should think that your opinion is worth fuck-all?"

      It's got nothing to do with obscurity; it's a pretty common way of expressing contempt for a statement and the person who made it. Well, a pretty common way around where *I* live, anyway.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @Evil Auditor

        Who the fuck is Turtle?

        1. Turtle

          Re: @Evil Auditor

          "Who the fuck is Turtle?"

          You'll never know!

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Devil

      Re: Re "famous Neil Gaiman"

      Fucking priceless....

      "If I might be permitted to make my own suggestions, I think bookshops should also install sofas and coffee machines, and invent a process for ordering out-of-stock titles that doesn’t involve queueing for half an hour to speak to a 17-year-old fuckwit who can’t spell or use a mouse. I have spent less time waiting at a DIY store Customer Services counter."

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

    Would they buy a car that only accepted petrol from a specific filling station?

    Anyone with even the smallest amount of common sense that wanted an e-reader would look to see how many sources of content were available to them, and they would all come to the same conclusion: EPUB. You can use readers and content providers interchangeably, It can use Kobo as either a reader OR a content source for my non-Kobo reader. I can also borrow EPUB ebooks from my library for free with Overdrive.

    When I see people with Kindles, I really wonder how much the human race has devolved. I also think the same thing with iDevice owners.

    1. Shakes
      Black Helicopters

      Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

      World-wide, free of charge 3G access, for one? That's a rather handy feature if you ask me.

      But I'm sorry, you were talking about iDevices, didn't want to interrupt you there...

    2. Mike Brown

      Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

      non techies. i actually recomended a kindle to my wifes great uncle. But then he went and got a 2nd hand kobo, as it was cheaper. Ive had nothing but problems since then. It dosent help he dosent actually have any net connection at home, or a computer for that matter, but the plan was to use the libruarys wifi, and buy all books from amazon thro the device. Nice and easy. Now i have the hassle of trying get books on this device that ideally needs a computer and a net connection, when he has none. He actually enquired about getting newspapers on it!! What would be the point? He only goes to the libruary once a week, and because he is the wifes family i cant tell him to stop being a moron. Now if it was my dad.....

      1. Mike Brown

        Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

        id forgotten about the 3g!! This makes his rash kobo purchase even more annoying.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

        "and because he is the wifes family i cant tell him to stop being a moron..."

        Yeah, you can.

        1. Don Jefe

          Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

          I bet you're a joy at family get togethers.

          "Oh God, Sweaty Neckbeard Came, ugh"...

        2. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
          Mushroom

          Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

          "and because he is the wifes family i cant tell him to stop being a moron..."

          Yeah, you can.

          The Soviets could have nuked American during the Cold War. It was an option that was entirely possible, at the push of a button in fact, and totally within their capabilities.

          However, the retaliation would have been too awful to contemplate. With appalling long term consequences. I put it to you that the same situation would apply in this case...

      3. Jolyon Smith
        Mushroom

        Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

        Not true. I'm a techie. I have a Kindle Touch and I love it.

        A lot of fellow techie look at me a bit funny when they see me with it and ask questions like "don't you have a tablet ?" and "why would you want something so slow and only black and grey ?". Those who know a bit more (but don't have an e-reader) might also ask: "why would you get an e-reader that is locked to the Amazon store?"

        (Those same techies usuall also have non-"jailbroken" iPads, iPhones or other smart devices, similarly tied to their respective storefronts, but don't seem to appreciate the irony)

        For me, I looked at the Amazon Store, I looked at what books were available. I also looked at alternative sources for books and the process involved in getting books sourced from other than Amazon onto my device.

        The Store Experience (as "sampled" via using the Kindle reader app) was friction free.

        Adding additional books purchased elsewhere into my Kindle library was friction free.

        The Kindle Touch was, at the time, the best e-reader on the market.

        The Kindle jacket case with built in reading light was the best looking and feeling jacket/case solution at the time.

        So, being the sort of sensible chap who adds up the pros and cons and then makes a decision based on relevant factors, rather than being a techno-ideolog who seeks every opportunity to flagellate themselves on the altar of inconvenience just for the sake of being able to flaunt their technocract geek credentials, I bought one.

        And once I explain how all this stuff "just works", and how the display technology is actually far better suited to the function for which the device is specifically intended, as opposed to the gaudy, retina scorching displays of tablets designed to do everything and yet also nothing.... other people quickly "get it" too.

        Especially those who don't initially understand how it is that I am able to sit in the sunshine, enjoying the view with my (polarised) sunnies still on AND still be reading on my device without squinting, constantly twisting and turning the device or shading the screen in a desperate attempt to try to make the display readable, and how I am able to keep pulling this device from my bag or pocket for days on end without having to scrounge a charging cable or swearing cos the battery just died.

        Sometimes being a techie means we are best placed to choose the best, fuss-free solution.

      4. seraphim
        Pint

        Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

        "He only goes to the libruary once a week, and because he is the wifes family i cant tell him to stop being a moron."

        Uh, yes, you can. You can even do it somewhat nicely. Just explain that since your advice wasn't followed in the first place, you're not really sure how to support the device he ultimately settled on, and he'll need to use the normal phone-drone tech support line. Maybe next time he'll listen to start with.

        Beer, because you'll need one after trying to be family tech support.

    3. Rob Moir
      Happy

      Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

      What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

      Oh I see what you did there. How... clever... of you.

      I've got a Kindle and I'm perfectly comfortable with the decision to purchase it, thank you. I'm considering trading up to a 'paperwhite' or Fire HD model too. Much like the iDevice (yep, own them too), I'm far too busy enjoying the fact that it works very well for its intended purpose to even notice the spluttering about "lock in" from people like yourself.

      You and I are both happy with our choices, and there's nothing wrong with that. However, your need to characterise people who disagree with you as having "devolved" in some way says a lot more about you than it does about 'us'...

      1. Richard 116
        Thumb Up

        Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

        @Rob Moir

        Could you possibly pop back and post a variation of that every time there's an Apple/Sony/Microsoft/Amazon/Android/Windows/iOS/Linux/Kindle/iPad/Nexus/whatever discussion on here?

        Well said sir.

      2. h3

        Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

        I have a kindle keyboard 3G - If it broke though I would replace it with the cheapest. (I definitely do not want a touchscreen if I could have a normal one with a backlight I would get that but I want physical page turn buttons and to never touch the screen.)

        I would be more annoyed not having my kindle than my smartphone or tablet.

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

          "never touch the screen."

          Oh god yes! I'm forever having to clean my satnav and phone screens. I do NOT want to have to do that with an e-book reader too!

          Apart from anything else, the ergonomics of correctly positioned buttons to press to turn the page (a la Kindle, for example) is far better than trying to force new technology to pretend it's old technology.

          With a kindle I can hold it in one hand and "turn" pages back and forth with the same hand. On a touchscreen e-reader, you really need to use both hands to be comfortable.

          1. Jolyon Smith

            Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

            Well, I have a touchscreen e-reader (Kindle Touch) and it is also very comfortable to use one-handed.

            Just saying. :)

      3. stuartnz

        Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

        I'm sure you would love the Paperwhite. I traded up to one a few months ago and love it. I really liked my Kindle keyboard, but the Paperwhite is even better, and reinforced my preference for e-ink over reading on backlit devices like my S3 or Nexus 7.

    4. Mr Fuzzy

      Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

      Someone who knows they'll accept mobi files and uses Calibre for library management?

      1. MCG
        Thumb Up

        Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

        Spot on, fuzzy. Since buying my Kindle two years back I've read at least a thousand ebooks without buying a single one from Amazon. Or from anyone else for that matter....

      2. Flywheel
        Thumb Down

        Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

        Maybe the type of cretin that enjoys a battery life of 3 weeks, pin-sharp fonts and the ability to carry around hundreds of books?

      3. Tom 11

        Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

        @ Mr Fuzzy,

        And that the email account from Amazon will convert most text formats and mail it out to your Kindle for no extra charge. I have had no problems with mine and I am not the sort of chap who owns anything produced by Apple, Sony or their ilk. As previously mentioned, Calibre and any text editor makes the Kindle an excellent device.

        For an extremely cheap, well designed and thoroughly useful device and supporting services you cannot go wrong with a Kindle, so trolling AC, STFU and GTFO.

    5. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge
      Thumb Down

      Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

      > EPUB. You can use readers and content providers interchangeably

      Funny, I can use my Kindle just like that, too. Only perhaps 10% of the stuff on it was bought from Amazon, and that was because it was the cheapest/most convenient place to buy at the time.

      The Kindle is probably the easiest device to use with Amazon, but not at all difficult to use with other sources. Maybe you need to broaden the material you're reading on your non-KoboKindle?

      1. JEDIDIAH
        Devil

        Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

        Not even epub. Just the Kindle app.

        The Kindle uses content that can be read on any other brand of device. Amazon is very open in this respect. They are anything but a single vendor solution (like Apple). There is simply nothing forcing you to use an Amazon branded device.

    6. aawelj

      Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

      I am that "cretin". I have an old Kindle that, given the amount I read, has paid for itself several times over in terms of the money saved over buying paper books.

      However, given your insightful comments, I can see that in fact my Kindle must in fact be defective in some way, since I have never had any problems downloading material from non- Amazon sources. Yes, I have to download them to a PC first and then swap them to the Kindle, but that's not a lot of effort. A quick Google (who, by the way, provide for all my internet search needs - I must just love those walled gardens!) suggests that EPUB books can be converted so as to be readable on a Kindle in several ways.

      Thank you for pointing this out. I wonder if Amazon will give me a refund? Or are they just too evil?

    7. Jonathan 29

      Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

      The quality of the books available to borrow from Birmingham Central Library is pitiful. I can't speak of other regions as in this global interconnected world I cannot borrow from them apparently. The ability to email books and web articles to the kindle however is a god send.

      1. stuartnz

        Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

        It's the same here in NZ, at least with my local library. When they first announcedd they were getting into ebook lending I was very disappointed that the Kindle was not supported. Then I saw the selection of books available and realised I was missing out on precisely nothing.

    8. Alistair Dabbs

      Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

      Well, this was my point. Ordinary people do not sit around considering the pros and cons of ePub vs Mobi file formats. What they do is buy the slimmest, lightest, most convenient and least hideous e-reader on the market, which is an Amazon Kindle... THEN they discover they've bought into proprietary DRM-saturated Hell.

      1. Matt Siddall

        Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

        "THEN they discover they've bought into proprietary DRM-saturated Hell."

        How do they discover this? When all the books they buy from amazon automagically appear on the device? When the books they buy elsewhere can be fairly easily converted and transferred to the device by plugging it in to the computer, or by sending an email?

        If Amazon prevented you from loading your own books onto the kindle and made it so that every book on their had to be purchased from them, I'd agree with you. But they don't.

        1. Alistair Dabbs

          Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

          >> How do they discover this?

          When they want to lend a book to someone with a non-Amazon e-reader, or their Kindle breaks and they decide to replace it with a Kobo.

          1. Toxteth O'Gravy

            Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

            Or... er... their Kobo breaks and they want to replace it with a Kindle.

            Kindle DRM is at least - cough, cough - easy to remove - cough.

          2. JEDIDIAH
            Devil

            Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

            >>> How do they discover this?

            >

            > When they want to lend a book to someone with a non-Amazon e-reader, or their Kindle breaks and they decide to replace it with a Kobo.

            That sounds like a Kobo problem.

            I can read the books "trapped in DRM hell" on any of our multiple iOS or Android devices. It's just like how I have 4 different brands of streamer device that can handle Amazon Video (or Netflix).

            Some vendors like being a single device walled garden. Amazon isn't one of them.

            1. GrumpyGus
              Thumb Down

              Re: What sort of cretin buys a Amazon Swindle anyway?

              It isn't Hell - the Amazon experience is actually quite pleasant, but you can only read Kindle books on devices that Amazon supports; and Amazon chooses not to support any other e-reader, so the the walls are there - you just haven't tried to leave the garden yet.

              Even iTunes supports one or two non-Apple devices, but I think most people would consider it a restriction if you depend on Apple or Amazon or whoever releasing software for your chosen device.

              Doesn't matter whether it's a single-device walled garden or multiple devices - it's still a closed system.

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