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back to article BlackBerry slams Z10 returns report as 'false and misleading'

BlackBerry president and CEO Thorsten Heins has fired back at an article in The Wall Street Journal which cites a report that returns of the Z10 are outnumbering sales – and that report was just the latest bad news for the beleaguered smartphone manufacturer. "Return rate statistics show that we are at or below our forecasts and …

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Facepalm

sounds absurd

how can they sell e.g. 100 phones and get 105 back?

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Coat

Re: sounds absurd

Store A sells 100 BB. Store B sells 100 BBs. 110 people (40 who bought phones in Store A, 70 who bought phones in Store B) return their phones to Store B 'cause Store B happens to be on the way to somewhere else and the people who bought from Store A can't be bothered to drive all the way back to Store A. Store B has had 110 phones returned, having sold only 100.

Alternatively, some people bought BBs because they'd previously had one, and liked the brand, but were so disappointed that they not only returned the new one, they got rid of the old one while they were at it.

Ah... where _is_ my coat...

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Joke

Re: sounds absurd

Blackberries got seeds.. You plant them. Wait a bit, a blackberry plant grows, which you harvest and then you got a lot of blackberries, so you can return more than you actually bought.. Rinse, repeat..

So I don't see why that is so absurd...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: sounds absurd

Simple really. Sales have slowed down and during the past XX days (I'm guessing 30 due to return policies) more people have been returning devices than have been purchasing them. Is it really that hard to comprehend?

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Anonymous Coward

But

Still not up to the mark of a decent smartphone.

It's lacking....

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Thumb Down

Re: But

Utter nonsense - no wonder you are just a trolling AC...

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Re: sounds absurd

Couple more options:

1) Some guy at Detwiler Fenton heard about this little mobile shop that his buddy's friend runs. Out of the 10 phones they sold last week, two were BlackBerries, and they had three returned at the same time.

2) As mentioned elsewhere, "Our clients and buddies need this stock driven down so they don't take a bath on this sure thing short we told them about!"

I'm going with option #2

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Anonymous Coward

Re: sounds absurd

It works like this:

Week 1 they sell two Blackberries 10s

Week 2 they sell 1 Blackberry 10, and receive the two back from last week after the customers realise that they could have got a Nokia with a better camera, screen, touch panel, microphones, maps, nav, OS, battery life, Apps, etc. for less money...

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FAIL

Re: sounds absurd

Carphone Whorehouse sells 100 BB. Phones Яu sells 100 BBs. 110 people (40 who bought phones in Carphone Whorehouse, 70 who bought phones in Phones Яu) return their phones to Phones Яu 'cause Phones Яu happens to be on the way to somewhere else and the people who bought from Carphone Whorehouse can't be bothered to drive all the way back to Carphone Whorehouse. Phones Яu has had 110 phones returned, having sold only 70 of them.

Two points:

(1) Why on earth would Phones Яu process returns from phones sold from Carphone Whorehouse?????

(2) Phones Яu has had 110 phones returned, having sold only 70 of them. However Carphone Whorehouse has had ZERO phones returned having sold 100 of them.

(The argument, as presented, is only valid if it were like this: Carphone Whorehouse Guildford sells 100 BB. Carphone Whorehouse Metrotown sells 100 BBs. 110 people (40 who bought phones in Carphone Whorehouse Guildford, 70 who bought phones in Carphone Whorehouse Metrotown) return their phones to Carphone Whorehouse Metrotown 'cause Carphone Whorehouse Metrotown happens to be on the train line where they can stop off before the Guildford location closes. Carphone Whorehouse Metrotown has had 110 phones returned, having sold only 70 of them. - This version of the argument also falls down, when you consider that the report for all Carphone Whorehouse locations will still report 40 phones sold.)

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Linux

Negative and falsified reports are so common about Blackberry now a day. Those reports are generally coming from scum analysts who wrote with the intent to manipulate stock prices. Perhaps these analysts are paid by short-sellers, or brokerage firm with short-selling interests. It is so surprising that Blackberry doesn’t take action to sue these liars even when it came under relentless attacks from false journalism.

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Anonymous Coward

Well the short sellers have billions on the line and they are about to lose their shirts, pants, socks and everything else if Blackberry stock doesn't drop. In total the number of short shares is about 1/3 of the total float. So the rampant disinformation about Blackberry is not at all surprising.

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This post has been deleted by its author

More being returned than currently being sold...

Try this:

A store sells 200 phones the first week, then 100 a week for the next three weeks. Altogether 500 phones sold.

In week 2 they start to get a few phones back, 50 that week, 100 the next and 150 in week 4. Altogether 300 phones returned, because people try a phone for a week or so before deciding that it is no good for them.

In week 4 they are getting back more than they are selling, which is the claim being made. Bad news for Blackberry if it is true.

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Stop

Re: More being returned than currently being sold...

...but apparently it's not true at all.

BB basically said "publish your numbers, we are not afraid of them" and these scumbags refused to even discuss their methodology, much less show anything to anyone.

Y'know, "put up or shut up" rule.

Since they neither put up nor shut up BB had to move and actually they did the right thing by referring them to the SEC and its Canadian equivalent (instead of bitching about it endlessly.)

Now that shit did hit the fan for them I'm very curious what this company who provides "Institutional Research, Trading, Investment Management and related Brokerage services to select clients and institutions" will show to the SEC about their "direct primary research and leverage proprietary analytic techniques" which resulted in such extreme BS claims...

...pass the popcorn, please.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: More being returned than currently being sold...

like SCO not showing the code that was copied, turned out to be lawyers bullsh*ting all along

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WTF?

Finally - someone steps on these cockroaches aka "analysts"...

...like this one, sporting SIX PEOPLE (yes, a real, giant "research" staff, 6 guys in an office), claiming a bunch of stuff you cannot even process without having an incredible number of connections then refusing to even discuss how they arrived to their BS "results"...

...do I smell a handful of scumbag trying to manipulate the stock they/their buddies/neighbors/etc are shorting? Tell me it ain't so...

...but I also love how ElReg's (resident Apple-cheerleader, as I recall?) writer is also piling on with quoting more BS "analyst" opinion, picking out the negative ones while omitting any positive one, when BB is clearly having a momentum going on...

...it became big worldwide pasttime tradition, to talk smack of BB, regardless of facts, it seems. :)

(PS: I'm a hardcore Android user who always hated BB,never owned one but was greatly impressed recently by the Z10's UI in a TMO store.)

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Stop

Re: Finally - someone steps on these cockroaches aka "analysts"...

Guess what, THEY ARE SCUMBAGS as Reuters just unearthed several dirty stories from their past: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/blackberry-ask-regulators-probe-report-124314147.html

My fav part:

"While a number of brokerage firms have in recent weeks published reports saying Z10 sales in the U.S. market are slow, none of them have flagged any major concerns about returns.

Since 2007, the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, the industry body that oversees broker-dealers, has fined Detwiler over $250,000 and has cited it for several compliance violations over the past decade.

In December 2011, FINRA sanctioned Detwiler for failing to properly supervise its employees and for allowing its brokers to make more trades than necessary in clients' accounts to boost commissions during a period between 2006 and 2009.

In 2007, the firm, which was then called Detwiler Mitchell Fenton & Graves, settled administrative proceedings that the SEC brought against it for failing to supervise Bradford Bleidt, a former employee who had been simultaneously running a $30 million Ponzi scheme."

Ouch - thanks for confirming my suspicion, Yahoo.

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Trollface

Big deal

"saying that 82.6 per cent of 1,500 surveyed US consumers didn't know that BlackBerry 10 had been launched in Canada and Europe."

82.3 % of US consumers think Canada is a small state up north some place where the bad weather comes from, and Europe is some kind of bird.

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Anonymous Coward

Let's get downvoted again

Last time I wrote this I got downvoted, here's a chance to do it again.

The US is a special market. Carriers determine what phones sell. Their advertising determines demand. This affects BlackBerry, HTC and Nokia. But at least HTC and Nokia have American friends - MS and Google.

For BlackBerry, the US market may be only a sideshow (except for QNX). Their problem is the constant market manipulation that happens to companies quoted in the US.

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Windows

Ahh BB10 Finally

Someone to take some more pounding instead of just windows phone :)

tis a good indeed!!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Ahh BB10 Finally

When did Windows Phone ever take a pounding? I only even seem to see good reviews and comments about that.

nb - did you know Windows Phone is now outselling Blackberry by almost 6:1 in the US? (07% market share versus 4.1%)

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Re: Ahh BB10 Finally

"nb - did you know Windows Phone is now outselling Blackberry by almost 6:1 in the US? (07% market share versus 4.1%)"

Ah, that would explain this graph then, no wait

http://regmedia.co.uk/2013/04/05/us_smartphone_market_share_os.jpg

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Re: Ahh BB10 Finally

Reviews - yes you're right, typically seem to be reasonable to good.

On here in comments though, it gets a pounding - "because it's Microsoft"

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Exactly my point

Was not talking about real reviews because overall it seems positive I just meant the microcosm of el reg :)

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