Microsoft and Nokia have added Google's Android operating system to their list of antitrust grievances against the ad giant, and have filed a formal complaint with European regulators. According to analysts, Android is currently the dominant smartphone operating system and Google also takes the biggest slice of mobile search …
Last time I checked didn't Winmo default to using Bing search and Bing Maps and Nokia to Nokia Maps??? isn't this the pot calling the kettle black? I mean hell Apple dictate you use Apple Maps and Safari though with all these if you really want you can change them!
The problem isn't so much that google are doing it. It's that google are doing it well with good products. Nokia and Microsoft can't compete on quality, so they need to hamstring google via legal action instead to give themselves a fighting chance.
It's the equivalent of ARM releasing a new desktop processor which is 10x more powerful than anything intel could make, only to be sued by intel because ARM is using it's mobile dominance to make a push into the desktop market. Something intel tried in reverse and failed.
The issue is that Android is the dominant mobile OS which automagically might make it unfair.
Especially if you're a failing butthurt whiny tech outfit like Nokia or Microsoft who, let's not forget, are firmly, if not cosily, in bed together in the mobile sector as a last grenade. Ovi(?) maps don't even place in a search for 'map', 'nokia' or 'ovi' in the Play store. Can you actually get ovi maps for Android then ? A bit fecking dumb if you're whining about it and don't even have your own mapping product available on the platform you're whinging about. Don't care if you can, more than happy with Googly maps anyway.
It read pretty much like documents filed against Microsoft not so long ago (browser choice), oh the irony.
"Last time I checked didn't Winmo default to using Bing search and Bing Maps and Nokia to Nokia Maps???"
My WP7.5 phone has this optical search button; the moment I press it (which unfortunately sometimes tends to happen by accident as well) I get Bing. I can configure some aspects like allowing my location to be used, allowing MS to get some search results when it comes to looking for pictures, and enabling the search button in the lock screen (you really don't want that ;-)).
Thing is; I can't tell my phone that it should use Google instead of Bing when I press this button.
This doesn't bother me at all btw., I like it this way, but it does show that something is seriously wrong here.
What about Google's involvement in browser choice?
It's a sad sight to see...
...the once proud Nokia, now being pimped by MSFT.
Android is the dominant OS for portable devices (verging on a monopoly).
Android is made by Google.
It is not possible to remove Google apps (e.g. Chrome, Maps etc).
If it is monopoly abuse for MS to include IE; then it is monopoly abuse for Google to prevent the removal of pre-installed apps. What's sauce for the goose etc.
If they want to blame someone
they should be suing the punters who aren't buying microsoft/nokia et al.
Sorry but Google apps can be removed. Have used and seen Android devices that do not have some or all of google apps. Also Verizon did replace Google search with Bing on one of their Android offerings.
Google doesn't prevent you from removing apps, your phone carrier does. If you got some crappy bundle ware on your phone, chances are that it's not Google's fault at all.
The whole "app store" thing makes it an entirely different world between now and the 90s. So does pervasive and easy networking. Replacing default apps on any OS with a modern package manager is not quite the same thing anymore.
'It is not possible to remove Google apps (e.g. Chrome, Maps etc).'
Bullish, look at cyanogen mod or Amazon's kindle. Booth without chocolate apps.
The Google apps are not part of android, OEMs have to license them from google. The complaint is that google licenses the apps as a whole set instead of individually, and the license requires the OEM to put them on the main homepage. Now, if Android OEMs were making this complaint then it wouldn't seem so petty.
Before version 4.0 it was not possible to disable/remove apps which were preinstalled into a certain part of the phone's storage area (which I forget the name of). In version 4.0 Google added a feature that lets you disable preinstalled apps. They still exist on the phone but are not in the app drawer and do not run. They can't be removed, but removing them would not free up any usable space anyway.
Chrome lets you use Bing as the default search engine, Android lets you use a different app store, lets you download a different maps app and set it as a default, lets you download a different browser and set it as default, lets you download a different keyboard and set it as default, lets you download magazine store apps, lets you download book store apps which use a non-google payment system, lets you use netflix, lets you download a music player and set it as default, lets you use Skydrive, yahoo mail, hotmail...if this suit succeeds then Apple is in the sh*%.
And Android can be used without a Google account.
"Android is the dominant OS for portable devices (verging on a monopoly)." - Google might be privacy-invading sharks, but they're good at what they do. If Android didn't work and wasn't cheap then it wouldn't be adopted.
"It is not possible to remove Google apps (e.g. Chrome, Maps etc)." - it isn't possible to remove Facebook, or Timeline-thingy, or OrangeEtMoi, or the games that don't even work in my country (supplied by Orange France to a person in France, WTF?), or a dozen other things that I just can't get rid of. It gets worse - on the apps listing I can selectively hide my own app installs, but I can do sod all about the baked-in stuff.
"then it is monopoly abuse for Google to prevent the removal of pre-installed apps" - I agree with you. But not just Google (to be honest, I do wonder if the app lock is more Google or more the manufacturer/carrier?). You should be able to remove an unwanted app. Period. Bye bye stupid Orange Backup that has never been configured yet tries to sync my stuff (addressbook?) regularly and fails, and feels the need to tell me about it. Typical crappy Orange stuff. I can't even remove it, kill it, or stake it in the heart.
Re: Huh? Not possible to remove?
I uninstalled Google Goggles and Google Maps from my Android phone just yesterday. Both removed fine, and now I have far more free RAM with their useless services not running anymore.
I know some ROMs won't allow you to remove them, but there lies the beauty of an open source operating system - you can make your own ROM without legal problems (unlike WinMob, etc).
If you root the phone, yes. But this is not something that a typical user would or could do.
In the other cases you will find the pre-installed apps cannot be removed.
Until Google allows users to delete Chrome etc by default in their OS; they are guilty of the sale abuser as MS and deserve the same treatment.
Google is not your friend, you are simply their product.
Requires rooting, not for the faint of heart or general user.
I don't give two shits. They can't deleted, that is abuse.
As for not needing a Google account; you are forced to have one to download apps from the store. Not so bad if that's all it was, but of course it's so much more. And if you want to transfer contacts you have to send everything to Google via your (effectively mandatory) Google account.
Not only can they be removed - they often are, and then some. For a while there Verizon was actually replacing the integrated search functions of their Android phones with Bing search in a way that could not be changed. They stopped that nonsense not because Google told them to, but because returns were horrific.
You don't need root to disable apps. This feature was added by Google for the sole purpose of allowing non-root users to disable preinstalled apps such as Google's own. They can't be deleted because of the type of memory they are installed in, but a disabled app has as much impact on the user and the device as a deleted app. This is not abuse and is not the subject of the complaint.
You need a google account to use the google app store. You need an amazon account to use the Amazon app store. But you do not need to use either.
You do not need to use Google services to store your contacts on an Android phone.
"The problem isn't so much that google are doing it. It's that google are doing it well with good products. Nokia and Microsoft can't compete on quality, so they need to hamstring google via legal action instead to give themselves a fighting chance."
@wowfood: Oh, I didn't notice your post. Could you please specify exactly what are the Nokia's products that are so much worse than any of the Google's cheap trash? Or did you mean their software solutions (which means only maps)?
@AOYGI Android phones preinstalled with a full set of Google apps sell incredibly well. Nokia phones with whatever they have preinstalled don't. Niokia's solution is to remove the Google apps from android phones.
"You don't need root to disable apps. This feature was added by Google for the sole purpose of allowing non-root users to disable preinstalled apps such as Google's own."
What utter crap. Just checked on the ICS - there is no such feature. You fail.
"They can't be deleted because of the type of memory they are installed in"
Thank you for conceding that Google are abusing their position. Can we move on now?
"You do not need to use Google services to store your contacts on an Android phone."
Yes you do, Google provide no other alternative. Please cite the non-Google alternative that is provided natively.
No, you fail.
I pointed out that Google does not abuse their position. What are you on about? I won't hear your nonsense any more but feel free to approach Nokia with your argument that the ghost of an installation of a google app, which cannot be run, does not take up any space on the user's RAM and cannot be accessed from the app drawer, represents an abuse of power. They'll tell you it's nonsense too.
Alternatives to not need to be provided natively for you to use them, but the native app will not send your details to google unless you log in with a google account - which is not a requirement to use the device. If you really hate google so much, just don't buy an android phone; you get the best experience by using it with a google account and benefiting from their services.
You utterly fail.
Incidentally, the native app is non-Google. It's part of AOSP, not the suite of Google apps which the legal complaint is about. It can import and export contacts in vcf format and can also sync with other apps like Skype, Skydrive and Facebook if you prefer to use other contacts services. When people say Android is open, this is the sort of thing they mean. You can use an android phone without ever letting google know how few friends you have.
I have checked Chrome, Facebook, Dropbox, Skydive and all the other bullshit that comes preinstalled (and I'll type slowly so you can keep up):
Even if there was, "Disable" is not good enough; "Delete" is the only acceptable option.
And please stop the "no Google account required" lie. One is 100% mandatory to use all the features of Android _ such as use the app store.
Funny, just checked on my Nexus 7 (you know the stock android one?!?!) and I can disable all the google stuff, even the play store
If you think that needing to have an amazon account before being able to access the amazon store is an abuse then tell Nokia and they can include it in their complaint. It has just as much relevance to anything as your point about needing to have a google account to access the google store. If you don't want to use a google account on android then get your apps from somewhere else. A google account is 100% NON-mandatory to use the features of android (the google apps are not part of android, they are licensed separately - RTFA); that's why you can skip the sign-in when you first set up the device. If you don't want to use the google apps then disable them and you'll never need to know they ever existed. Google can't abuse you when you can't see its apps!
> And if you want to transfer contacts you have to send everything to Google
Wow. I'm glad I didn't know that last time I exported my contacts to my SD card...
I was thinking that with this line "embolden Google to repeat its desktop abuses"
Seriously? This came from Microsoft (by proxy)? They have the biggest ones I've ever seen
'Seriously? This came from Microsoft (by proxy)? They have the biggest ones I've ever seen'
No if it's your strategy to have a software monopoly and crunch all your competitors then it's all right. ;-)
If MS would release a non-crap App for Hotmail on Android, it would certainly show their willingness to compete.
Surely they are overlooking something? With Android you can install whatever you like, even non-Google Play apps. If Microsoft were forced to open Windows Phone up the same way Android already is, Steve Ballmer would be throwing chairs until Christmas.
"They're doing better than us because they let users do what they want and we don't. They shouldn't let people do what they want - it isn't fair."
Disclaimer: my main combo is iPhone/iPad, so I'm not that much of a Google fanboi...
"Disclaimer: my main combo is iPhone/iPad, so I'm not that much of a Google fanboi..."
Are you using "Apple search" ? oh wait ...
The real problem is that Google's services are becoming ubiquitous because generally Google's services work well for most devices as compared with the services from Microsoft. I have never encountered a single problem using Gmail over the web with many different browsers nor have I had any problems using Gmail's IMAP service. The same simply cannot be said for the abomination that is Exchange/lookOut.
"Are you using "Apple search"
On an iOS device, it is the user who choses which search engine to use. Not Apple, not Google, not Microsoft.
The same can be done with Android. The one platform where you can't change the search provider however is Windows Mobile. I wonder if Microsoft are familiar with the definition of "irony"?
If bing were in google's position
Imagine if bing was successful, the monopolist domination would be complete.
Win 8 has a load of 'bing' default apps, IE 9 is by default littered with bing.
A bit rich from MS who have spectacularly failed to provide any and Nokia who squandered the lead they had by going from excellent to crapper than android in the blink of an eye.
I find it amazing that with so many crap systems in the mobile market not one of the players considers building something good and instead they all just concentrate on rushing more and more half-arsed rubbish to market in the hope that the fanbois (of all flavours) wallets will keep salivating like Pavlov's dog and lapping up the shiny.
Re: Unfair competition
Big companies are not good at restricting themselves, so we need a "police" with the power to do at least something about it. So they all complain to the EU, at times, to try to restrict the competition in their favor. Normal business. And poor EU has to look into it every time. What happened to the DoJ or what ever. But in the long run I think, at least I hope, it is for the benefit of us, the consumers.
Re: Unfair competition
"But in the long run I think, at least I hope, it is for the benefit of us, the consumers." - I doubt that.
I'm way too cynical to think common sense will step in for the benefit of customers.
Example. I deal with pounds, euros, and from time to time yen. It was useful to go to Google and type "123 jpy in eur" and when the search came back, there would be a little box below it that said what Google estimated the rate to be. Somebody complained. Now it just provides a bunch of links to other sites which invariably don't tell me until I've gone to the site, enabled scripting, and then entered my value again. Bloody palaver.
I want Google to do this sort of stuff. I want Google to provide its own services where appropriate. If I didn't want Google to do this, I'd use a different search provider. There are alternatives (but they're shit - seriously, compare Bing's maps sometime for starters...), the world doesn't begin with "G" and end with "e".
But no, rather than attempt to create something of equal value, it is far easier to whinge to the EU or anybody else who will listen because Google has the better product and that's a Bad Thing. Wah.
I fail to see how any outcome restricting Google from including their software will ultimately be better for the end user.
This is gross hypocrisy of the highest order.
Google did all that whinging about fair browser choice in a dominant OS but somehow this different. Utter hypocrisy.
Hypocrisy is high indeed in the EU bureaucracy so all bets are off. Although it would be grossly unfair to apply a different standard to Google than was applied to Microsoft in the IE browser choice debacle don't count on the large fines and user-hostile demands being applied here.
Um, it was Opera who raised the browser choice thing in the EU...
Forcing users to choose the Chocolate Factory's map, email and video services
Map… Yeah, everybody's doing the same, but Android is dominant, so Google are the one who should offer more choice than Apple or Nokia, as usual. I'm not sure how this can fit with the fact that Google Maps was already the dominant maps internet service before the first Android phone came out, though. If anything, I would rather say that Google is unfairly pushing Android by having it as default on Android phones, something that it is withholding from other phones.
Email… Would people really create a new email address on a different service because it is the default app on their new cell phone??
Video… Hang on, Microsoft has a video sharing service?
Re: Forcing users to choose the Chocolate Factory's map, email and video services
Imagine trying to say the same thing to Apple if ios were 'dominant'
'Having waited three years for any response from Apple Corp we have no choice but to impose fines"
The next morning
"Apple launches appeal against unfair fines levied by the EU Competition Commission - 'Having invented competition we feel these fines are unwarranted and unjust' said CEO Tim Cook in a press statement today"
Re: Forcing users to choose the Chocolate Factory's map, email and video services
Did you really say and mean Google is competing unfairly by forcing people to use Android on a Android phone? really?
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