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back to article Android FOUND ON TABLETS inscribed with WORD OF GOD

A church has handed out tablets instead of hymn books - but not stone ones etched with the 10 commandments: these are Android fondleslabs whose pinch-to-zoom feature is a godsend for elderly parishioners, we're told. The first tab-equipped Church of England congregation at St John's Church in Mickleover, near Derby, clutched …

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I see a crack in this scheme.

The last time I went to church (like before the dawn of time) I remember sitting down on the hymn book with some alarm. How long before one of these doubtless broad bummed ladies and gents suffers the same indignity with a glass fronted tablet.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I see a crack in this scheme.

Yes, he deliberately used Android Tablets knowing there was a 100% chance of them all being returned. It's true he tried it with iPads but not only did they distract the congregation, playing Angry Birds during the sermon, but after the first service 42% were not returned. A week later he had only one left.

So much for the 'thou shall not steal'

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Re: I see a crack in this scheme.

Angry Birds? Is that not available on Satanslabs?

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In-church entertainment.

The internet offers many things far more interesting than a preacher.

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Re: In-church entertainment.

The preacher's daughter?

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Happy

Hacking Hymns

I can easily imagine the fun that could be had by changing a few words :

The Lord's my pusher, I'll not want.

He gets me stoned so high

With weed so green, he leadeth me

The quiets sofas by.

( This was my attempt at an ecological hymn )

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Terminator

Re: Hacking Hymns

"I can easily imagine the fun that could be had by changing a few words :"

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

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Devil

Re: Hacking Hymns

"n a gadda da vida, baby

In a gadda da vida, honey

Don't you know that I'm lovin' you

Oh, won't you come with me

And take my hand

Oh, won't you come with me

And walk this land

Please take my hand"

from The Simpsons

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Techology and Faith

Despite the anti-religious nature of some of El Reg's readers, I see this a good thing in helping the gain access to text that they would have difficulty in getting by say large print texts etc. Although I think a e-reader (e.g. a Kindle) would probably be better then a tablet, as it is much simpler to use then a tablet. I for example have use a Kindle to read a Bible in meeting for worship.

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Re: Techology and Faith

Folks have not needed the ability to read text for religious purposes since time immemorial. Shamans have been pulling the wool over they eyes of TheUneducatedGreatUnwashed for millennia ...

"Techology" is a great misspleling, illustrating my point ;-)

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Re: Techology and Faith

You might not be right...

Just look at modern physics - the Newtonian view of the universe is dead in the water - the universe is a strange place - parallel universes, laws of physics different in different parts of this universe, the duality of matter, quantum entanglement, etc etc.

I'm no expert but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Roots_of_Coincidence might be a place to start.

Remember - your Newtonian/Atheist world view is a faith itself - and it may not be 'right'. After thousands of years of human questioning I find it difficult to think that *we* are the ones who now know it all. Humans have been proved wrong many times in the past - and I think we (i.e. the current western Atheist view) will be proved wrong again.

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Re: Technology and Faith

If God really existed there would be no need for religion.

Technology will not change that fact.

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Re: Techology and Faith

" ...your Newtonian/Atheistic world view ......."

You're preaching to the converted. Most people here are non-Newtonian and some are very spooky. I myself hold a Quantum-Mechanical/Pantheistic universe view. If you want to make a point, you need to slide into one of those universes where Einstein etc didn't happen.

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Re: Techology and Faith

No, just you that are not right. Had to face palm at the logical fallacies in your post.

Newtonian physics hold up just fine given the scales and speeds we tend to operate at in daily life. Apples still fall down the same as in Newtons day. String theory is interesting, but right now the best evidence we have is for exactly one universe which has the same laws applying everywhere. The Higgs-Boson seems to confirm that the standard model still hold as our best explanation of the universe.

Atheism is not a faith - look it up and try to understand. Holding the null hypothesis, which is that you don't believe in god/gods in the absence of evidence is correct and always will be. You can't be wrong if you change your world view in the face of evidence.

Just get your god of choice to chrome plate the moon over night as a demo of there ability and I for one will take another look at your claims.

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Linux

Re: Technology and Faith @Khaptain

Just briefly...

Think about this, a quantum fluctuation that otherwise would annihilate itself created the universe.

Could that not be called a miracle? Is it possible that the universe willed itself into existence?

Maybe you think that will is some sort of chemical reaction, that would be another miracle.

No intelligent being would create life forms in their own world (dimension) because if they turn out bad they will destroy their own creator.

Hence we live in a simulation, a sort of cosmic sweetshop, where you can do anything you like.

You have the choice to become an evil dictator or a saint or anywhere in between. Or you could become obsessed with sex or doughnuts or whatever.

After the simulation has run for a set time the Boss's right hand man appears to sort the good from the bad.

The good get to live in the real world, the bad are discarded.

With that in mind, you may wish to ponder the meaning of this parable:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25%3A14-30&version=NIV

Lastly, if you ever get the impression that time itself is speeding up:

Matthew 24:22 - And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

YMMV

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Re: Techology and Faith

Atheism isn't a faith. Quite the opposite. Atheism requires the endless proving of things, evidence and science. There is,in fact, very little "faith" involved at all. The requirement for something to be demonstrated, proven and explained means that faith is the last thing used to form a set of "stuff" to either believe or not believe. Rather the reverse of any faith, where the very lack of any evidence, at all, means that you NEED faith. Because there's f-all else to go on when basing the way you live on the contents of a relatively old book.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Techology and Faith

Actually it looks like they might be one of the few churches that are making an attempt to follow the CofE's "accessibility guidelines" which say that any words etc displayed on a screen should also be available in a large print version.

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Re: Techology and Faith

"the current western Atheist view"

There is no such thing.

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Re: Techology and Faith

"Remember - your Newtonian/Atheist world view is a faith itself"

No it really isn't. It's an understanding of scientific theory based on observable and repeatable evidence. Faith is belief WITHOUT evidence,

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RE: Atheism isn't a faith

I hate to disappoint you but it is.

Science to date has not provided an answer whether there is God or not. So if you state that "there is no God" it requires faith, as there is no evidence for such conclusion. Equally, if you state "there is God" it needs the same amount of faith.

"Atheism requires the endless proving of things"

You are wrong again - it is science that requires the endless proving of things.

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Re: Newtonian Atheism

"Remember - your Newtonian/Atheist world view is a faith itself"

LOL. Last I checked Sir Isaac Newton was a devout Christian... But his laws are holding up quite well for certain input parameters, so there is nothing requiring faith in Newtonian mechanics.

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Re: RE: Atheism isn't a faith @Vlad

Atheism as I believe it comes down to this "I don't believe there is a God, because there is NO proof that there is". Its corollary for me is "If someone proves to me there is a God, I'll quite happily believe in him/her/it".

Not believing is something that has no proof, is not a matter of faith. For example, I don't need faith to not believe that the moon is made of cheese.

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Re: Techology and Faith

I believe the action is more subtle than that - and it has been proven by the placebo effect.

People who simply genuinely 'believe' they will get better can actually make a physical difference here in this physical 'real' world. Some people believe in the power of prayer and don't need to be 'tricked' into producing the same effect.

So we have the power somehow to alter reality - is that us or something else which does it for us?

BTW - There is serious evidence about the laws of physics varying in our universe - see:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19429-laws-of-physics-may-change-across-the-universe.html

If that is the case then this universe is far, far weirder than the (current) Standard Model.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Techology and Faith

@bailey86 You pull that old trick that if science does not have all the answers then religion has them.

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Re: RE: Atheism isn't a faith @Vlad

"I don't believe there is a God, because there is NO proof that there is", "If someone proves to me there is a God, I'll quite happily believe in him/her/it".

That sounds more like agnosticism to me. My understanding of the term atheism is that it states "I believe that there is no God even though there is no specific evidence that there isn't".

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Re: Techology and Faith @Bailey86

A much simpler explanation for the placebo effect is that human organism may mobilise its resources better against an ailment if the brain concludes that it has received help from an external intervention.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: RE: Atheism isn't a faith

RE: @ Vladimir Plouzhnikov

I hate to disappoint you but it is.

Its ok - you havent disappointed anyone because, despite your assertion, it isnt.

Saying it is, doesn't make it so and creating a logical strawman that a lack of belief in gods (atheism) is the same as believing there is no god doesnt help.

I do not believe there is no god. I do not believe there is a god. I require the same amount of faith to not believe that god exists as I do to not believe that Santa exists.

However, you faith in Cthulhu impresses me. Likewise, I am sure not to many Christians, Moslems, Jews etc would be to happy to realise they actually have a devout faith about the existence of Zeus, Santa, Unicorns, etc.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Techology and Faith

People who simply genuinely 'believe' they will get better can actually make a physical difference here in this physical 'real' world. Some people believe in the power of prayer and don't need to be 'tricked' into producing the same effect.

You have a marginal misunderstanding of how the placebo effect works. Giving someone a placebo to treat a self limiting condition and then them getting better is not a sign of the placebo "working." People taking a placebo and reporting vague things about it making them "feel happier" or whatever isnt the same as working either (but is as close as to the point at which it has a "medical" value).

When placebos can actually cure things, they will stop being called placebos and be called medicine.

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Re: RE: @Vlad

Vlad,

Do you honestly believe that your faith would exist if you had never been handed a bible, torah, koran. Do you not find it strange that you have to be taught about all these mystery characters, doctrines and beliefs and that all of that teaching requires huge amounts of "faith" in order for it to become believable.

God is unfortunately just another means of control. Almost all Gods and their beliefs are based about one element "Fear". Fear is used in order to manipulate, the fear of God, the Fear of dying, the Fear of going to Hell etc etc etc ...... Whole nations can be moved by using fear, we have seen enough of this all throughout history. It really is a very powerfull "motivator", look at the the media usage today.

God is a concept, that is held merely within your imagination. Your imagination is fuelled by mere words from a book. Without that book your imagination would have gone elsewhere and Gods existance would never have crossed your mind. Your mind would simply have dwelled on other more fundamental things.

God exists only because you want him to and because others want you to think that way. ( it really is vey sad).

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Anonymous Coward

Re: RE: Atheism isn't a faith @Vlad

That sounds more like agnosticism to me. My understanding of the term atheism is that it states "I believe that there is no God even though there is no specific evidence that there isn't".

You've allowed yourself to conflate the terms based on very recent attempts to change the meanings and try to portray atheism as a position of belief.

Atheism is a lack of belief in gods. It is equally valid for any god ever invented, now or in the future.

Agnosticism traditionally holds that nothing can be known for or against the existence of a god.

More generally, being agnostic only makes sense before you consider a position - as I dont know any atheist who would hold to that position, should Zeus turn up one day and say Hi.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Technology and Faith @Khaptain

@ Mystic Megabyte

Think about this, a quantum fluctuation that otherwise would annihilate itself created the universe.

Could that not be called a miracle? Is it possible that the universe willed itself into existence?

There is so much wrong there, I am completely at a loss where to start. Seriously.

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Re: RE: Atheism isn't a faith @AC 09:58 GMT

"I do not believe there is no god. I do not believe there is a god."

OK, so you are agnostic. To me it's not the same as atheist or theist.

"I require the same amount of faith to not believe that god exists as I do to not believe that Santa exists."

So, you are also agnostic about Santa? That a bit more extreme - I always thought that those NORAD games of Santa tracking on the Christmas eve were a bit cruel towards the more naive amongst us. I see I was right...

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Happy

Re: Techology and Faith

"you don't believe in god/gods in the absence of evidence is correct and always will be"

Technically someone religious might use excatly the same argument - that they believe in god(s) in the absence of evidence that none exist.

"Atheism is not a faith "

Atheism, just like religion, has it's basic adherents who are pretty 'meh' about it either way, and the evangelical fundumentalists. Atheist evangelicals (eg Dawkins) have such a firm belief that god(s) do not exist, that they want to convert everyone to their point of view, and will not just STFU about it. In many respects the actions of this movement very closely resembles that of organised religion. (Oh, the ironing!)

Technically, holding the null hypothesis would be agnosticism, ie not believing either that gods exist, nor that they do not exist.

Except that if they DO exist, you'd better be careful you've chosen the correct tablet. Don't want to be caught with an android if there is an iGod :)

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Re: RE: @Vlad

"Do you honestly believe that your faith would exist if you had never been handed a bible, torah, koran."

Or the "Manifesto of the Communist Party"...

"Your imagination is fuelled by mere words from a book."

But what book! Complete collection of Lenin's works, no less.

"God exists only because you want him to and because others want you to think that way."

But others may want me to think that way because God influenced them to do so. ;-)

If you talk about god in the primitive sense of him being a bearded old man on a cloud, micromanaging the evolution of species - it is easy to dismiss the idea and enjoy the feeling of "knowing better".

However, if you ever consider God in a deeper philosophical context of, say, for example, ideas expressed by Spinoza, it's getting much more complicated and much more difficult to simply dismiss as nonsense.

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Re: RE: Atheism isn't a faith

Technically, Atheism is a faith, because an atheist believe there is no god.

Agnosticism is the absence of faith. You do not know whether there are zero, one or many gods. Neither do I.

I personally believe it is unlikely that any "god" or supreme being exists or has ever existed, because the lack of evidence for such an entity speaks volumes to me. However, I do concede that one might, although if it does, I certainly don't believe it is even remotely close to that described by any religion. Therefore I am not a true atheist. The fact that I am prepared to admit that I am wrong is what differentiates me from being an atheist or a religious person, but I think many people would consider themselves atheists even though they would be prepared to admit that they may be wrong. It is purely a technicality.

I think the humanists had it right when they said something like "There's probably no god. Stop worrying and enjoy your life."

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Angel

Re: RE: Atheism isn't a faith

I hate to disappoint you but it is.

No, it really really isn't.

Faith is a belief in something that you can't rationally prove, but that you want to be true. For example: most Christians believe both in God and the Devil, but they wouldn't claim to have "faith" in the Devil. For a belief to be a faith you have to have some emotional investment in it.

Atheists don't have that emotional involvement with their beliefs. They don't go around saying "Oh, I really hope there isn't a god", they say something like "There is no evidence for the existence of a god in the universe as we currently understand it, and our understanding seems to be getting better all the time" -- so, yes, it's a belief but it isn't a faith.

Actually, Christianity sounds pretty neat in some ways ... if you spend your life being reasonably decent to other people, go to church on Sundays, and remember to say "sorry" before you die for any times when you didn't quite make the required standard then you're guaranteed to spend the rest of eternity (after a possible spell on the naughty step of purgatory, depending on whom you listen to) in perpetual bliss. Wouldn't that be cool? What's not to like?

Sadly, there is no evidence that any of this is true, or even possible, but I can see why some people clutch at the straw of hope that it offers.

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Re: RE: Atheism isn't a faith

An atheist believes... grr. Why can't I edit my post to correct grammar?

Read The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins if you don't believe the above. Of course, he might be wrong, but it's not likely!

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Re: RE: @Vlad

If one accepts Spinozas idea of God and Nature being one in the same substance then theology/religion has no reason for being. The word God is reduced to a synonym.

On another philosophical note :

Quote : Bertrand Russell

"No one can sit at the bedside of a dying child and still believe in God"

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Re: RE: @Vlad

"If one accepts Spinozas idea of God and Nature being one in the same substance then theology/religion has no reason for being. The word God is reduced to a synonym."

Not quite. Spinoza's Nature is more like a subset or a particular manifestation of God.

"No one can sit at the bedside of a dying child and still believe in God"

That's not a philosophical but emotional statement. Anyway, if one follows Spinoza's idea then the child would not have existed in the first place if there were no God.

It's all getting rather too philosophical.

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Happy

Re: RE: Atheism isn't a faith - @dajames

"Atheists don't have that emotional involvement with their beliefs"

Some atheists do - ever read Richard Dawkins?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: RE: Atheism isn't a faith

Technically, Atheism is a faith, because an atheist believe there is no god.

Nope.

An atheist doesnt believe in gods.

If I believed Unicorns didnt exist, in the face of the evidence before me, that would be faith.

However not believing in unicorns is not an act of faith.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: RE: Atheism isn't a faith @AC 09:58 GMT

OK, so you are agnostic. To me it's not the same as atheist or theist.

No, but if you want to label people that way, it is your choice. Just dont expect people to agree with your labels or defend your position towards them for you.

I am an atheist. I do not believe gods of any shape or form exist.

Agnostic and Atheism are not mutually exclusive and atheism is not the alternate faith to theism. That is "theism towards a different deity."

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Childcatcher

Re: RE: Atheism isn't a faith

An Atheist says "There is no evidence for the existence of a God/Gods, therefore I believe that they do not exist".

A Theist says "The evidence for the existence of God/Gods lies in my belief in them".

An Agnostic says "There is currently no evidence in the existence or otherwise of God/Gods, but this might change".

Therefore, Atheism and Theism are both belief systems, whereas Agnositicism is an open minded approach.

As for those who say Santa doesn't exist.....

Oh yes I do!

Icon for the Children at Christmas :-)

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Go

Re: Technology and Faith

"If God really existed there would be no need for religion."

If people didn't exist there would be no need for religion. There, FTFY...

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Re: Techology and Faith

I once read a study that showed that patients who knew others were praying for them to get better more often did worse than those who were not prayed for (or didn't know they were being prayed for). This was attributed to the stress caused by the patients not wanting to disappoint those that were praying for said patient.

Just goes to show how much BS religion is and how feeble the human mind can be for succumbing to it.

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Re: Newtonian Atheism

Where the tablets 2000 years in the making (like jurasic park was 65M)?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: RE: Atheism isn't a faith

An Atheist says "There is no evidence for the existence of a God/Gods, therefore I believe that they do not exist".

Erm, no. An atheist says there is no evidence for the existence of gods, therefore I do not believe they exist.

Saying "I believe they do not exist" carries an assumption that the existence is there.

The list of things which we do not believe in is pretty open ended, none of it is belief that they dont exist. Santa is just one of many entries.

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Didn't know Jeremy Clarkson did church..............

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Joke

Who knew that God loves androids, although I suppose the Google mantra of Do No Evil was appealing. Although i would of thought that with all the churches money they would resurrect the psalm.

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Alert

Cant help noticing...

...the nearest theist is holding it wrong. Looks like its in landscape to me!

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