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back to article Samsung's new co-CEO: 'Windows isn't selling very well'

Samsung says it will continue to produce Android phones even as it puts its weight behind the competing Tizen OS, but there's one software partner the South Korean mobile maker isn't so bullish on: Microsoft. "Smartphones and tablets based on Microsoft's Windows operating system aren't selling very well," Samsung mobile chief J. …

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what's that noise?

It's chickens coming home to roost!

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Angel

Re: what's that noise?

The Samsung guy makes a very astute observation here.

I wonder - do you think he knows which religion the new Pope subscribes to?

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If it ain't broke, don't...

"...doesn't indicate a desire to move away from Android"

I read the article, and that part threw me off. What position is Samsung in to move away from Android? Better yet, why where those types of questions focused upon in this article or by the interviewees?

Linux or its kindred (BSD) are the model all these companies have been seeking, because they love money. With a big money partner like Google and a Linux software platform, why leave?

Not to be offensive, but the rest of the article was blah blah. No matter what any 1 person says, it's up to the buyers to give this new mobile its honest review.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: If it ain't broke, don't...

A big company like Samsung is riding the Android bandwagon but they would rather be steering it. Google could turn around at any point and say "sorry, we're not doing OEMs now".

Google really are playing it safe now. They bought Motorola Mobility and yet LG are making their Nexus 4 phones? seems rather bizarre, almost like they're going out of their way to try to demonstrate that they're not going to cut out the OEMs.

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Re: If it ain't broke, don't...

"Google could turn around at any point and say "sorry, we're not doing OEMs now".

Google don't have a choice as to whether you use Android or not. They agreed to that much when they released it under the GPL.

If Google suddenly did an Apple, I think you'd find a very well-stocked alternative to the Play store springing up practically overnight.

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Re: If it ain't broke, don't...

> Google could turn around at any point and say "sorry, we're not doing OEMs now".

No they can't. They may stop developing new versions, but the code that is out there can be used forever without any additional permission from Google. And the code can be added to and enhanced by others.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: If it ain't broke, don't...

In theory, Richard, Yes.

But in practice, FOSS always ends up lacking due to the whims of community Prima Donnas.

I know it's a difficult fact, but Android got to where it is due to ruthless management by big business (Google).

FOSS development that isn't supported in that way almost always leads to multiple "hobby horse" pre-alphas that aren't fit for use and in many cases aren't even fit for purpose.

If Google pulled back from Android it'd be dead inside 6 months as the lunatics took over the asylum.

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Re: If it ain't broke, don't...

I read the article, and that part threw me off. What position is Samsung in to move away from Android?

Samsung is in the position of the company that sells more phones than anyone else in the world, a world in which the majority of buyers don't know or care what OS a phone runs anywhere near as much as people who fight the Android/iOS battles in this forum think they do.

Most people here seem to believe that people choose Android, but in reality most of these people are choosing Samsung, and have little understanding exactly what Android is. They don't care that Android is "open", or that Apple has a "walled garden". They buy based on what their friends have, or maybe the Samsung's bigger screen strikes their fancy over the smaller iPhone. Or, and I know I'll get downvoted by many for daring to suggest this, perhaps the massive advertising and media attention that BOTH companies now get sways them one way or another.

Samsung could easily switch the OS in the next GS and the die hard Android fanboys might wail and moan and say they'll refuse to ever buy another Samsung product. Or might not, if it isn't all that different user experience wise aside from sending all the money from their eyeballs to Google. After all, Tizen will still be open source because it's still Linux, and will most likely (at least at first) be capable of running all their Android apps. The loss of the Android faithful would hardly make a dent in Samsung's sales, and that would be more than made up for by all the money they now send to Google that they'd be collecting instead (yes, Samsung is in this to make money, just like Apple)

Look hard for how little Samsung even mentions Android anymore if you want a clue as to what direction they are going.

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Re: If it ain't broke, don't...

> Android got to where it is due to ruthless management by big business (Google).

I am not sure why you think that Android has 'ruthless' development. You seem to be just making stuff up, probably because you hate anything being successful.

> If Google pulled back from Android it'd be dead inside 6 months as the lunatics took over the asylum.

'Lunatics' such as Samsung, LG, Huawei, and many others ?

Do you think that they don't have the facilities to continue development that they are already involved in ?

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Re: they released it under the GPL.

The linux stuff is GPL but most the android platform is Apache 2.0

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Vic
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Re: If it ain't broke, don't...

> They agreed to that much when they released it under the GPL.

Most of it is Apache, rather than GPL, but nonetheless, anyone with code has the right to create derivatives providing they stick to the licence conditions.

However, Google *could* decide not to release any new code, and take Google Android proprietary. I think that would be a *huge* mistake, but they could.

> If Google suddenly did an Apple, I think you'd find a very well-stocked alternative to the Play store

Indeed.

Vic.

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Anonymous Coward

To be fair, most people who want a Windows Phone will buy Nokia, they have the best support, exclusive apps etc.

This has just confirmed what most people suspected of Samsung, they produced a Windows Phone but their heart wasn't in it.

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"...their heart wasn't in it."

And who says passion is dead!

More likely they couldn't get a grip on development times to become a long term player fast enough, so maybe their wallet wasn't in it. However, I prefer to believe it was a lack of passion too, be a nice change :-).

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>they produced a Windows Phone but their heart wasn't in it.

Perhaps it was a little finger-wag to Google, too? Just to keep Android coming?

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Anonymous Coward

"This has just confirmed what most people suspected of Samsung, they produced a Windows Phone but their heart wasn't in it."

That's a fairly plausible assessment, I think. Don't forget that HTC did something very similar, after Microsoft said "nice phone business you have there, it'd be an awful shame if it were to be involved in patent litigation.. by the way, you will be wanting to support WP, right?".

HTC more or less went through the motions.

(Obviously this leaves aside the fact that they seem to be off the boil at the moment too, after chasing a lot of the buzz and indeed customers away by producing too many interchangable and mediocre models, after initial Android success)

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More dire news for Microsoft

No doubt Microsoft fans of Windows Phone 8 and new Tablets will dismiss Samsung as some unknowing "Asian" upstart that has no appreciation or understanding for the 'genius' of Microsoft's products, and that Redmond will still achieve the dominance these minions predicted sometime in the near future.

Apparently they also rejected a recent report from IDC Market Research firm which placed Microsoft smartphone market share in February time frame at approximately 2.9% and the Apple iOS/Android duopoly at approximately 91%. Domination from pittance presence to supplant almost the entire present smartphone OS base.

The news of strong interest in Mozilla FirefoxOS mobile in Europe and now that Samsung, in alliance with Intel will besoon releasing smartphones based in Tizen, 'another' Linux mobile OS is probably enough to send these Microsoft worshippers over the edge of sanity.

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Holmes

Re: More dire news for Microsoft

Correct, but before we hear the sound of tears and violins for microsoft remember these are the patent trolls extorting $5 per handset from the good guys, thus making them a return orders of magnitude greater than their own comedy efforts.

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JDX
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Re: More dire news for Microsoft

The "good guys"? Oh Bob you don't just have wool over your eyes, but a sheep sitting on your face.

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Re: More dire news for Microsoft

Unlike other groups the Windows fans read the article and shake the head about the quality of journalism. The headline says Windows and the article says Win/RT and Windows Phone. Not a single negative word about Windows 8 or the two Win8 tablet pc in there.

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Re: More dire news for Microsoft

mmeier

Re: More dire news for Microsoft

"Unlike other groups the Windows fans read the article and shake the head about the quality of journalism. The headline says Windows and the article says Win/RT and Windows Phone. Not a single negative word about Windows 8 or the two Win8 tablet pc in there."

What is the market share for Win 8? 6%?

Don't count the OEM licenses paid for, just what is on the street.

Why is Win 8 behind where even Vista was at this stage?

People don't want a mobile OS on their desktop. And despite the mantra that the desktop is dead, people seem to want both. I'll grant that 8 is the best and fastest ever made by Microsoft, but perception often becomes reality. And the perception is that 8 is hard to use and sucks. Yeah, there are workarounds, but the average user doesn't want to have to fiddle with it to see a desktop or a start button.

All Microsoft haters should pray every night that Ballmer stays on...

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Re: More dire news for Microsoft

The reason Win8 comes on slowly is partially that the next big changeover is currently being planned and tested. XP will be phased out over the next 12 month and quite a few of our customers [Think 500-15000 workstation] are currently in the early planning / testing with both w7 and w8

As for the "perception" this will quickly change wenn Joe Average gets his first W8 Pc/Notebook and realises what ballshit some "journalists" and "experts" have been sprouting. "Quality" journalism these days results in comments like "The Helix is heavier than the ipad2" as the only commenton it

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Anonymous Coward

Re: More dire news for Microsoft

"The Good Guys"?

LOL

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Re: More dire news for Microsoft

> The reason Win8 comes on slowly is partially that the next big changeover is currently being planned and tested. XP will be phased out over the next 12 month and quite a few of our customers [Think 500-15000 workstation] are currently in the early planning / testing with both w7 and w8

XP, Vista, Win7 also had slow starts from corporates, in fact many businesses haven't moved to Win7 yet. So that doesn't explain away the slow start.

> As for the "perception" this will quickly change

The perception seems to be that the PCs now have the phone UI that they didn't want when they bought their Samsung, so why would they buy that on a PC or laptop? Anyway they spent their budget on an iPad and a SmartTV and their current PC is still running OK, so they won't be buying any more electronics stuff this year.

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Anonymous Coward

It's not that Windows is not selling well

It's because everybody (Google, Samsung and wireless carriers) is making way more money with Android. Besides that, they don't risk becoming slaves of Redmond the way PC OEMs did. It's live and learn, folks! And if Android falls out of fashion then there's other Linux derivatives in line of succession. Windows is not rubbish, it's just that Microsoft can't do much to change this dynamics. Their tight grip on the PC market forced innovation to move elsewhere.

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Pint

Re: It's not that Windows is not selling well

Spot on. Everyone in the chain saw what they'd done to the PC business so went out of their way to stop it happening in mobile. It's clearly worked - the chickens have indeed all come home, and that's the way it's gonna stay, folks.

Nokia were dead anyway - the microsoft tie up was a postmortem spasm.

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Re: It's not that Windows is not selling well

There's no incentives for hopping in bed with Microsoft, while Windows phone is a good effort it's still got most of the problems 7 had so why should the carriers really push the platform?

Firefox OS despite seeming quite lackluster is at least giving the carriers what they want and Microsoft probably should have paid more attention to that or at least delivered on the end user experience which they're not doing while they still lack some of the most popular apps and some of the more glaring problems/missing features which hasn't improved greatly despite having plenty of time to resolve since WP 7 came out.

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Linux

Re: It's not that Windows is not selling well

Indeed.

Amusingly, Nokia are testing their latest hardware with Android 4.2 at present (according to my inside man!) and they have plans to compete with their own Windoze product!

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Re: It's not that Windows is not selling well

At this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia

See (about 1/3 way down) "Financial Difficulties and Restructuring"

There is a graph showing ms' declining presence....

Lots of interesting tidbits about this Samsung competitor. I didn't know that Nokia's official language was English.

They were into rubber, TVs, and computers...

Samsung Group:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung

Is an interesting story, too. Started out as delivering groceries and selling own-made noodles.

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Trollface

O'Realowski?

People making money with Android? I thought Android was bad because it involved giving Intellectual Property away, which leads to crappy phones, market fragmentation and dead, festering puppies?

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Re: It's not that Windows is not selling well

On the language point, there are 5 million native Finish speakers, and 360 million native English speakers plus a further 1.125 billion with English as their second language or spoken as a foreign language.

To be a global business from Finland, it is useful to adopt English - 5 million v roughly 1.5 billion.

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Linux

Re: It's not that Windows is not selling well

""Nokia were dead anyway - the microsoft tie up was a postmortem spasm.""

Nope, Not if they had made an Android-based Lumia.

The quality of Nokia's handset is astounding and lots of folks would have bought an Android handset from Nokia.

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Linux

Re: It's not that Windows is not selling well

"""Amusingly, Nokia are testing their latest hardware with Android 4.2 at present (according to my inside man!) and they have plans to compete with their own Windoze product!"""

I wish that you are not trolling.

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filing around 120 patents

I hope they're not for removing people from photographs or Theremin-style finger detection (and any musical uses of same) because I already invented those and documented them here in the forums.

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Re: filing around 120 patents

Prior art regarding "removing people from photographs" has already been established by some Georgian with the improbable name "Steelman" back in the 30s, really.

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Unhappy

Why Care About The OS?

Why does anyone care about the operating system used on a mobile telephone?

It used to be that you bought a phone that suited your finances, pocket or handbag size, needs, reception in your normal area and had the features you required.

Do people really buy a phone based on either who made the stupid thing or what operating system it runs? Perhaps that is why so many phones cannot do basic phone tasks very well..

Personally I do not care who made it or what operating system it runs, I just want it to have the features I need. Sadly this appears to be impossible to achieve with 'modern' devices which appear to celebrate the fact that they either cannot do what I need or do it so appallingly badly as to be useless.

Shame is I have an elderly phone that already does precisely what I need. Long may it keep working.

I just hope that the idiots in OFCOM do nothing to stop it being used.

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Trollface

Re: Why Care About The OS?

I guess your new to these forums? The people who hate Apple and would never by something from them, whilst frothing about Android, is only matched by those people who love Apple no matter what crap they produce.

Windows seems to be hated by just about everyone though.

Hey I wonder if I can get down votes from three camps that'd be novel.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Why Care About The OS?

"...Hey I wonder if I can get down votes from three camps that'd be novel..."

Only three camps? Don't do yourself down. By spelling you're and buy wrong and missing out a fair bit of punctuation, you can attract downvotes from the Grammar Nazis too!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Why Care About The OS?

"Damn kids, with their new-fangled phones, get off my lawn"

Yes, I care, as the software that I run on mine* tends to all exist on a particular platform, in this case Android. This is where most of the "features" that I care about come from, beyond very basic phone and housekeeping functions. I'd have to take it into account if I were looking at some new shiny- would my current software work on it, or is an equivalent available.

Smartphones are little computers, it's a consideration just the same as if I bought a ton of Mac software, and then decided that the Chromebook Pixel was so shiny that I had to have one.

Since I am not a luddite simpleton, I prefer to look *before* I leap, not buy new shiny because it's a nice colour, and then blame everyone else when my stuff doesn't run.

* They're proper little computers these days, I heard. Damn kids, completely closed devices were good enough for my Grandfather...

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Re: Why Care About The OS?

"Why does anyone care about the operating system used on a mobile telephone?"

No-one does, but the youngsters have started using the word "phone" to refer to a hand-held PC. Usually these have SIMs in them, so they aren't actually not phones, but calling them phones is a bit like calling your car a portable radio.

I, too, have an elderly phone that does what I need, so you're speaking my language. Sadly, we are no longer speaking the vernacular.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Why Care About The OS?

You forgot to mention Sony, also more or less universally hated these days by the nerd fraternity

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Re: Why Care About The OS?

Many people still do. That's why I amcurrently using an Android based N7000 instead of an iPhone (regular updates) or a WP system (one Ul for all) Only Smartphone with a stylus and that is my basic need

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Why Care About The OS?

"You forgot to mention Sony, also more or less universally hated these days by the nerd fraternity"

They invented the idea of putting rootkits on your computer without your permission. As far as I'm concerned that means that I don't buy their products and I don't allow their products to be connected to my network. That's why.

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Re: Why Care About The OS?

Few people have the time or tools to evaluate hardware, firmware, and software mix, so they rely on brands, (except Apple) there are three brands to consider: one for the hardware, one for the firmware/OS, and a multitude for the software/apps.

Like with cars, there are different manufacturers, VW might use Bosch electronics, and you might fit Michelin tyres.

A strong brand might have enough goodwill to survive a few mistakes. You pay a little extra for a brand because of the notion of quality (not luxury) it provides (McDonalds is not a luxury experience, but of a known quality).

How do brands become strong?

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Freudian Slip?

"We like Android and we plan to continue our good relations with Google," he said. "I don't think it's correct to say that there's friction."

Who says there's friction?

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Re: Freudian Slip?

quite:

WSJ: Samsung has become a dominant maker of Android-based phones. Has your relationship with Google changed?

Mr. Shin: We like Android and we plan to continue our good relations with Google. I don't think it's correct to say that there's friction.

Statement Analysis:

Two sentences that oppose one another, the first says they like Google, so it is probably true. However one suspects that the sentence really was more like "We like android but we prefer Tizen" in his head.

He also says he doesn't think it is correct to say there's friction, as above, it's very non committal. He might not use the word friction, but he might use another word in his head.

OTOH, there is no surprise here, Samsung would rather drop Android, if they can, for Tizen.

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Re: "We like android but we prefer Tizen"

They could well do, but the economic fact of life is that Android sells itself while they would have to make a lot more effort to shift Tizen phones. It could well be a case of

Anything for an easy life

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Re: "We like android but we prefer Tizen"

I think you have missed the last 6 months, Samsung have been branding themselves strongly. They have been pretty much ignoring the Android branding where they can.

Originally people bought Android because they wanted a phone that was like the iPhone. Now people want a Samsung, very few people buy it because its Android, not in the general public anyway.

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Anonymous Coward

News flash

I'd consider myself a W8 fanboy, but only because I've used it and it's a really slick OS, I don't even own one. We'll I was looking I to my crystal ball this morning and let me tell you whatiI saw. Windows 8 will continue to grow slowly but surely as MS relentlessly pour money into it, not necessarily becoming number one but becoming a big player. Tizen and FirefoxOS will both die without most people even realising they existed.

I for one have not heard anything about strong interest in FirefoxOS.

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Re: News flash

> Windows 8 will continue to grow slowly but surely as MS relentlessly pour money into it, not necessarily becoming number one but becoming a big player. Tizen and FirefoxOS will both die without most people even realising they existed.

I suspect that you mean 'Windows PHONE 8' which is a completely different thing.

Several predictions, such as by IDC just over a year ago, had WP7 overtaking iOS by 2015 but these predicted a 9-10% share for 2012 and that failed. The trend is downwards.

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Stop

Platform trolling aside, is it any wonder based on their portfolio of products based on Windows Phone compared to say Nokia or even HTC.

Not saying the platform is amazing, or that what Samsung is saying is untrue - but if I was buying a WP device (and I have done) then Samsung would be the last of the vendors to get a look in. No value added.

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