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back to article PSF warns on angry trademark attacks: Python coders, this is not our way

Python fans have been chastised over their attacks on a tiny web host embroiled in dispute over the Python trademark in Europe that saw the police called in. Top officials from the Python Software Foundation have urged civility and restraint in the dispute, saying death threats and hactivism against the web hosting company - …

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Joke

Death threats and hactivism

That's nothing, I got downvoted on the Reg Forum for saying I thought it was all a bit over the top.

(Joke icon because you never know when a death threat is imminent.)

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Happy

Re: Death threats and hactivism

It's O.K., have some popcorn

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Anonymous Coward

So why not use an Anaconda instead?

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Because that's the Red Hat / Fedora installer?

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Anonymous Coward

"Because that's the Red Hat / Fedora installer?"

Then maybe a black adde... Oh, never mind.

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How a bout a black vegetable?

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Megaphone

Denial only hurts more...

"This is not who we are"

That is a very dangerous comment, and which isn't true perse when you look at what is going on right now. This is not what they wish to be, obviously, but that's a totally different story.

Fact of the matter is that any "banded together" group, whether its Python programmers, C programmers, System engineers, etc.; you simply can't know what that group is capable of when strange things happen. Simply because you don't know every member of said group personally. This is also why it is so important to always be careful with the way in which you bring certain news because one person may act on that totally different than another.

To join the stereotyping somewhat: a "base dweller" may somehow feel that this patent request is hurting or endangering his way of life, as such will respond to that in the best way he deems fit. Possibly trying to undermine or "hurt" the event best as possible. Unfortunately that doesn't always get the desired results. And it seems the Python group isn't fully anticipating on this.

If you look at The Python blog you'll notice this for yourself. There are 3 things people can do:

1) If you work in a company that uses Python write them a company letter about it.

2) Send word of EU publications which use the name Python.

3) Financially support them.

Its good, people who want to help the cause should especially look into items 2 and 3. But where does this leave the average "base dwelling" Python programmer?

Also note this specific quote: "Please do consider helping the PSF in any way you can.".

I am generalizing here; but what could a Python using and loving scriptkiddie do best to help them out ?

That is IMO part of the program. They should try to tunnel all of that. I dunno; host a forum somewhere where people can spout of their annoyances about it. It may not really help them, but at least people get the feeling that they're actually doing something (useful). And I think that could help those people to get some steam off and maybe could provide evidence by itself when looking at the possible numbers.

At least its good to read that these folks got legal counsel; very smart move right there.

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Compromise

Is it possible to share a trademark between two disparate parties? Or perhaps have a trademark with a non-transferrable and non-cancellable right of use....

IANAL but that sounds sensible to me

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Re: Compromise

You can't "share" a trademark, but you can license the right to use them. So Veber could grant PSF a license to use the mark with regard to software (only), since the classes used by the European system include software with servers and on-line services.

The fact that there has been "an initial flurry of emails" between PSF and Veber and yet they haven't already agreed to something as simple as this rather strongly suggests that Poultney is being disingenuous, and was at least willing to entertain a "land grab" of the Python name.

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Holmes

Re: Compromise

Yep.

Going from Veber "blowing off" the PSF to both parties now engaged in "'good-faith negotiations' to settle the trademark dispute" sounds like someone wanted to eat a lot of lasagne but it turned out there was a horse in it. Or serpent maybe.

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Lesson learned?

"Poultney confirmed that he'd not involved any technical staff in the decisions he'd made about the Python product brand and told me he regretted that, because it would probably have helped him understand the likely reaction to his trademark challenge."

Simon Phipps, page 2 on the link below

http://www.infoworld.com/d/open-source-software/grabbing-the-python-name-hosting-firm-gets-bitten-213223

Marketing types should perhaps talk to techies when trying to sell things to techies?

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Flame

Re: Lesson learned?

Perhaps python the language has been a bit slow as having the name trademarked. But what the hell, python the language will remain python the language and perhaps this "saying the Python trademark was at risk in Europe" was the start of this silliness. Stupidity is international indeed.

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Re: Lesson learned?

> python the language will remain python the language

If Veber manages to get their "Section 9: computer software" trademark approved, I find it extremely doubtful that python the language can remain python the language.

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Re: Lesson learned?

"I find it extremely doubtful that python the language can remain python the language." No you are wrong there.

The world is not that applified yet.

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Boffin

Re: Lesson learned?

Hence the need for evidence of uses of the term 'Python' referring to the programming language to be made available to psf so that the application can be contested.

I suspect that Verber's management have had their Ratner moment however and may decide to choose another name for their, no doubt, excellent hosting and 'cloud' services.

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Re: Lesson learned?

> "I find it extremely doubtful that python the language can remain python the language." No you are wrong there. The world is not that applified yet.

Well, you think they would keep a name that would put anyone using it at risk of being taken off the web? How do you advertise computer software that bears a name that is trademarked by someone else?

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Re: Lesson learned?

> The world is not that applified yet.

That would be why LibreOffice is still named OpenOffice, and Jenkins is still named Hudson, yes?

Lindows, ifone, etc...

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Re: Lesson learned?

Erm, the trademark had not been granted, and almost certainly won't be.

That's what the "call to send examples" is about - ensuring that Verber cannot be granted the mark by proving its already in common use in that sphere.

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DN4

Re: Lesson learned?

> Well, you think they would keep a name that would put anyone using it at risk of being taken off the web?

Anyone outside Europe and also anyone inside who wants the trademark invalidated.

If #!/usr/bin/python stops working because of trademark I'm going to start sending death threats too.

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Re: Lesson learned?

> That's what the "call to send examples" is about - ensuring that Verber cannot be granted the mark by proving its already in common use in that sphere.

My point exactly

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Programmer wanted...

... experience in TLFKAP required.

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copyright...

is a pretty good example of prior art. All they need to do is present a copy of Python for Unix/C Programmers Copyright 1993 Guido van Rossum as referenced at:

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.38.2023

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Angel

Our chief weapon is civility...civility and restraint...restraint and civility.... Our two weapons are restraint and civility

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