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back to article UK doesn't have the SKILLS to save itself from cyber threats

The National Audit Office (NAO) has published a report announcing that the UK doesn't have enough skilled workers to protect it against online attacks and asking Blighty's schoolkids to step into the breach. The number of cyber security professionals in the UK has not increased in line with internet growth, according to the NAO …

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Anonymous Coward

Out of work oap

Over 30 aspie, unemployable due to social skills, wants job in cyber security. Instead spends time tinkering with perl/python/shellcode/payloads/metasploit interpreter/gcc/tor/etc to exploit government websites and defacing complaining about unemployment.

Hobbies: Phishing

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Go

Re: Out of work oap

That skillset will positively ROLL OVER anything in my office right now.

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Anonymous Coward

You need to read this ...

"Office Politics: How to Thrive in a World of Lying, Backstabbing and Dirty Tricks"

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Re: Out of work oap

Hobbies: Phishing

By JR Hartley?

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Coffee/keyboard

Re: Out of work oap

Yes. You owe me one :)

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Re: Out of work oap

Sorry you fail the vetting because you have a police caution for hacking the school's admin system when you were 11

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Anonymous Coward

We do have the skills

Just not the people working in the I.T. sector - presumably because the jobs have been outsourced as part of the governments ham fisted handling of the economy.

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Re: We do have the skills

It's just that the skills aren't willing to work for £25k per year (Referring to the MI6 codebraking challenge the other year) when they can get several times that working in the private sector.

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Re: We do have the skills

IT security is an afterthought for most companies and although they have policies in place to allegedly keep employees in line it's rarely acted upon if they don't and most of it is lip service. The simple truth is that we need companies to start hiring IT security staff and backing it up with decisive action from HR departments when something is uncovered.

It's ironic that you can be fired for stealing from your employer if what you've stolen is physical but far fewer people are fired for data theft or losing valuable/damaging data and even fewer are reported to the police or ICO.

We have the skills in the UK, we just need companies and government organisations to start taking it seriously and giving departments with IT security staff in them some real power to make the changes necessary.

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Meh

Boring

How many times a year does this story get rolled out. Of course the skills exist.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Boring

All those people don't understand how to use recruiitment sites then. Have you tried recruiting cyber security bods?

Anon, obviously

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Re: Boring

I have tried recruiting cyber security bods. The key to success is not insulting them with offers below $75K. They average $100K with any sort of experience.

The problem isn't a lack of skills. It is a lack of people willing to work in the middle of a dense urban core (expensive!) for what - when you factor in cost of living - is poverty wages. Fuck HR, and thier government-funded surveys too.

Which reminds me...what is the point of LinkedIn again? And really, who does it serve?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Boring

Search for cyber AND security on jobserve. Oooooo... 6 whole jobs. Oooo 250 pounds per day as a contractor.

Change the search to internet AND security. Oooh. 34 jobs. Massive demand. Oh, and that's a European wide search.

What a bunch of lying shills.

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Chickens coming home to roost

so, totally debase science and technology teaching over a period of years. Allow and encourage a celeb-obsessed culture where the height of aspiration is to flash your bits on big brother. Ignore, and belittle scientists and experts in favour of political expediency.

And THEN act surprised we're not keeping up in the read world.

Well, colour me surprised.

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Re: Chickens coming home to roost

And you have a civil service recruitment process that considers "diversity" to mean you invite old chums from both Oxford AND Cambridge to suggest any suitable chaps

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"...taking evidence from homeopaths"

Isn't that what the current Health Secretary DOES think we should be doing?

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Re: "...taking evidence from homeopaths"

Try the heir to the throne.

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Facepalm

It's no problem!

We'll just outsource our security surveillance to India and China! Just like we do everything else..

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Anonymous Coward

Re: It's no problem!

We'll just outsource our security surveillance to India and China

Why? Google is already doing that..

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Boffin

Get a degree in hard science and then get paid a pittance for highly skilled work on short term contracts only so mortgages are impossible to get. Get a PhD to get paid another couple of grand.

That was the case when I graduated nearly 15yr ago and I can only imagine things are even worse now. Science graduates were paid less than Tesco's checkout operators.

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Anonymous Coward

*nods*

I hear you brother *clenches fist, beats chest, raises arm* fight the system, Sci-power!

Scientists are not respected in the UK (aside from Dr. S. Singh and Libel laws...) Take Diamond Light Source, the UK's foremost central research facility. Scientist Positions, "40hr week", minimum 5 years experience in similar role elsewhere, expected on call duties, 32k. (postdocs get more than that abroad...)

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Re: *nods*

Last I herd from a French person was that in France if you have qualification xyz then you must be paid at least a certain amount.

If I remember correctly that French person also said if you cannot find employment at that rate they pay you your job seekers at that rate (I may have mis-heard that part)

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Facepalm

A very informative cyber-article

Geez, maybe they should stop prefixing cyber- to everything and then at least one hurdle to recruitment would be eliminated, namely the embarrassment factor.

It's like someone advertising themselves as "Dad's Dance Club for Girls". it's just cyber-wrong.

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Re: Security skills

Goddammit, that's twice now I've had to give you an upvote.

Stop being so reasonable, will you!!!

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Re: Security skills

This is nonsense, programming isn't any more accessible in Linux or on the Pi than it is in Windows. Put a bunch of Pi's in school and they will get just as neglected at the moment. Education has drummed the fun and imagination out of technology and turned it into a bunch of spreadsheets. THAT is what needs to change, not the platform.

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Unhappy

Re: Security skills

"Stop being so reasonable, will you!!!"

Don't worry.

It won't last.

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Re: Security skills

@Ben

Of course it is, assuming we're comparing a standard school image to an OOB Linux install (apples, oranges does come to mind though). We managed OK on Windows machines though, but did have the 'benefit' of DOS before that..

You're right though, that the core problem is the way the curriculum has taken all the fun out of it. It does it in every area though, I remember being told you can do that if you want, but they won't give you any marks for it, only bits x, y and z will be marked where x,y and z were the most boring unimaginative things you could think of.

Part of the problem is, again, lack of skills. Most teachers aren't going to be happy to let the kids do something they themselves don't understand (unless they have to), which at the moment will generally cover everything except spreadsheets. Again, part of it comes down to pay, with the skillset I have I wouldn't dream of having to deal with a classful of kids for what teachers get, never mind dealing with the difficult parents.

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Coffee/keyboard

Re: Security skills

"shouldn't be teaching Windows to school kids"? You really do need to stick a 50R resistor across your O/P port by the way!

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A true story

I may have told before ...

Back in 2009, my lad was due to chose his GCSE choices. The school held an open evening and 3 local universities all gave a presentation on why kids should aspire to go to university (and thus the choices they should consider).

One chap told us of a student that had graduated in 2007, that had moved to America with her company, and was earning over £40,000 a year. Her company ? Chase Manhattan. Her course ? "Politics and history". Not a doctor. Not an engineer. No cure for cancer from her. No solution to the world energy or hunger crisis from her.

The fact that she was the aspiration this odious smarmy little shit chose to parade in front of 14 year old kids tells me exactly why things are the way they are.

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Unhappy

Re: A true story

""Politics and history""

Read that as Politics with Philosophy and Economics.

Popular with high ranking spooks Intelligence civil servants.

No. They have no idea about cyber security either.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: A true story

well, it's immaterial, since she fucked of to the US, to pay their taxes.

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New headline

- UK Gov doesn't want to pay for skills to save itself from cyber threats -

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Re: New headline

£650m and £8m to Universities?

How much of that actually made it to lowering the barriers to entry in actually getting an education in '"Cyber" security? Given that Uni courses cost £9k a year now, why would you take an expensive course that is only going to garner pay in the low £20k range?

Perhaps some of that could be put towards paying some serious names from the industry to offer a nationwide on-line "Cyber" security course with a nationally recognised qualification for free (or a token amount to sit the exam). I for one would sign up to that.

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It's odd

but I now know lots of IT experts who have been forced to move abroad due to not being able to find work (one mate was willing to drop from £110k to £45k) but still couldn't find anyone to pay that so is now earning an absolute shedload outside of the EU. This is a no brainer, they can find the staff if they're willing to pay them, but they're not, so they outsource or import and then make up disingenuous articles like this to cover their arses.

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Megaphone

Schools prevent students from exploring, government limits free speech

As the title suggests, schools fsck the chances of kids who are naturally good with this sort of thing. Seriously, teachers soil their pants at the idea of a kid that can do things they can't. As a now 22 year old who left the school system early (and is now taking a degree very late...), schools consist of ego tripping muppets that couldn't make anything of themselves who wish to impose their limitations upon innocent children who would otherwise enjoy learning.

Also, Britain is pretty much the only country where security best practice documents are not publicly available for scrutiny. I double dare you to find me a legit public download link for the complete versions of all of the Good Practice Guides by CESG for example.

If I want to however, I can go to the US NSA and get guides on how to secure IT infrastructure without even having to fill a form in. Yeah, I just said it.. The US are more open and transparent than the country that raised me...

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Anonymous Coward

I have an idea

When such a thing happens, and the red states are hacking our asses off (figuratively) why not put out a cable asking all skilled workers to volunteer their skills in thwarting the nefarious cyber crims?

Oh hang on, that was actually a dream that I had, I got enlisted to make the coffee.

Still, Hollywood? BBC? anyone wanna fund this film?

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Mushroom

Re: I have an idea

I pay enough fucking tax, thank you. I have no interest in doing the states job for free.

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Anonymous Coward

The problem's already been solved.

You asshats seem to have conveniently forgotten that a remedy has already been chosen and implemented! The UK has decided to ration electricity and de-industrialize so very soon the only network you people are going to use is sneaker net - and they won't be Nikes either because anyone who will be able to afford a pair of Nike running shoes will be running like hell to get the fuck out of UK as it finally takes its place among the poorest nations of the world.

A computer can't be hacked if there's no electricity to run it.

Problem solved!

Good work, mates! Long live Soviet England!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The problem's already been solved.

What are you wittering on about? Are you pretending to be English? Are you attempting to troll? If so, you've caught me but I'm afraid it was the random segue between odd subjects that attracted me rather than any outrage at your point. Did you, by the way, have a point?

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Big Brother

" the government needs to get them while they’re young"

And once spying on mastering the internet is up and running we'll know exactly who to get.

Big brother needs you.

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The real problem is a shortage of employers willing to employ people who require an hour or so to get up to speed with the new job. If you aren't already doing a job that's exactly 100% identical to the advertised job, you're worse than scum.

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Anonymous Coward

There are plenty of well-skilled cyber-security people in this country. You know who they are working for though? Private companies..

That's because they pay them a decent wage, unlike the government that was wanting to pay less than what you could get in IT support for a job in London...

Anybody remember that "hacking challenge" that was so abismal the answers were available online in a few hours...

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FAIL

Outsourcing?

I'm sure there's a guy in some Asian country or other who'll do it for $10 / hr.. oh wait, you didn't want to outsource to the people you're trying to protect yourself from? Prolly should have thought of that before you sent the rest of our jobs there..

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Anonymous Coward

I'm obviously doing security for the wrong private company :(

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Doesn't matter

Because we don't have aircraft carriers with aircraft for another decade or two and we've only got about 80,000 troops who are actually not here at the moment.

They'd not need to cyber attack - they could just walk right in and take what they want. Most probably the only official opposition would be some guy from Group4 security on minimum wage (if that).

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Anonymous Coward

Pure garbage

I heard a chap talking about this on the BBc yesterday. The way it was described you would think that this field would now pay better than the banking sector in the good days. Double pay should be easy right?

Show me the money.

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Re: Pure garbage

Banking sector: Where a your high pay grade makes your manager rich

Security sector: Where a your high pay grade makes a customer not poor

The incentives are clear....

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