Feeds

back to article Björk gives up trying to Kickstart Android music app

Elfin Icelandic singer and educator Björk has had to cancel a Kickstarter project to get her music and science app suite Biophilia ported from iOS to Android and Windows 8. The original Manic Pixie Dream Girl was looking for £375,000 to get the multimedia project - which includes an album where each song is a self-contained app …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.

Page:

Bronze badge
FAIL

Having something that sounds like...

...paedophillia on your phone or tablet is probably not something most people would want... tracks as apps? Tracks should are tracks and played in a music player, they don't need their own app

2
18
Anonymous Coward

Re: Having something that sounds like...

Burn the paediatricians! Pitchforks at the ready!

15
0
Bronze badge
Unhappy

Re: Having something that sounds like...

Sadly some mobs of working class did just this during the last pedo revelations

1
1

Re: Having something that sounds like...

No they didn't. One paediatrician had anti-paedophile graffiti sprayed on her house by an unknown vandal or vandals (no reason whatsoever to believe it was a "mob", and certainly no mob was seen or reported). No one was attacked or injured. This is the story which is the grain of truth at the root of this urban legend;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/901723.stm

2
0
Bronze badge

Re: Having something that sounds like...

Also, there really isn't anything as the 'working class' now. It really is a derogatory phrase which should have been consigned to the history books - but is unfortunately still purveyed by a political class, (which still exists), to get votes.

1
0
Anonymous Coward

The class still exists

But they aren't working. "Benefit class" maybe.

1
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: The class still exists

Can we get a "Daily Mail" icon please?

0
0
Childcatcher

Re: The class still exists

Will this one do?

Also, that was my post but I was thinking more about layoffs in the recent recession, the collapse of heavy industry etc.

0
0

Re: The class still exists

So all those. People state king shelves in Telcos, tarmacing the roads, installing your cabling etc are just an annoying illusion.

0
0
Bronze badge
Joke

...or maybe

the music was just sh!t

4
3
Bronze badge
Happy

I thought it was interesting and certainly a novel idea. Didn't get past the first freebie track tho

0
0
Go

£375,000?

Give me £65,000 and I'll do it

3
0
JDX
Gold badge

Re: £375,000?

Mmm, 3.5 man-years of work sounds absolutely crazy. Even re-writing from scratch using the source code as a guide shouldn't take so long!

Clearly this is due to Android being crap... nothing to do with her developers. Perhaps she got quotes and they simply tried to rip her off.

3
5

Re: £375,000?

Ha! I'll do it for the 15k she's already raised. That's a fair amount of cash for one month's work.

1
0
Silver badge

The iPhone has always had a relatively audio low latency around the 8-12ms mark (and built-in wireless MIDI), but Android hasn't always been great for virtual musical instruments:

On the Samsung Galaxy Nexus handset – a device over which Google has more control – they've already improved latency from 100 ms in “Ice Cream Sandwich” (4.0) to “about 12 ms” in “Jelly Bean” (4.1), and want to go oven better. 12 ms is usable; sub-10 ms could really attract sound developers to the platform.

-http://createdigitalmusic.com/2012/07/android-high-performance-audio-in-4-1-and-what-it-means-plus-libpd-goodness-today/

4
3
Paris Hilton

What Dave said. Android blows for musical work, not playback, but anything requiring psuedo-real-time control of audio.

'cause apparently Paris is not much good at real time audio control either.

0
0
WTF?

Does it need programmers that cost nearly £10K a month?

2
0
JDX
Gold badge

That's how much decent programmers cost. It's not what they earn, but it is what your company charges for your time.

0
0
Anonymous Coward

£112,500 p.a.

8 programmers for 5 months - so 40 man months - for £375,000. So that's the equivalent of an average £112,500 p.a. per programmer - to port code. I can't help thinking there's more to this story than meets the eye.

6
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: £112,500 p.a.

she should get another quote fo' sho'

0
0
JDX
Gold badge

Re: £112,500 p.a.

As I said above, that's about the rate a company would often charge its people out at. How else will the company make a fat profit and be able to run all those meetings, buy nice offices, etc?

0
0
Silver badge

I would have thought

that she has sold enough music and made enough money to pay for it herself and doesn't need to beg for charity.

11
0
Thumb Up

Re: I would have thought

Spot on. Particularly when it's for an app to deliver her music, which makes her more money!

That reminds me. I must check my Kickstarter project to buy me a helicopter so I can get to work on time.

4
0
Anonymous Coward

So in summary

If you go down the iPhone route, it's an expensive mistake, as everything is tied to that platform and it's esoteric language (objective C).

Had they gone Android in the first place, they wouldn't have had this problem. The Java language is portable everywhere, and compiles down to Davlik on Android.

6
4
Silver badge

Re: So in summary

Most Android devices can't handle audio fast enough - why do think that most of the commercial audio creation apps are on iOS? (See link above link)

4
7
Silver badge
WTF?

Re: So in summary

Commercial audio creation apps on iOS? Seriously who would be using a phone to create music?

OK I acknowledge that a lot of music production these days is done on Apple products (Macs are well known for this) and I'm sure Snow Leopard (or whatever the latest Big Cat is these days) is great for it, but honestly I cant imagine anyone seriously into audio creation using a phone to produce their music with...

5
2
Anonymous Coward

Re: So in summary

...Acording to Apple...

Apple say alot of things about Android, and 99% of the time it's utter bullshit. They know that by claiming that Android lacks low latency audio (without any evidence to back it up), they have created a nice little excuse for developers to thus use when someone asks for an Android version.

Android latency varies by device, Jellybean devices usually very good.

4
2

Re: So in summary

think this was "proved" by the Gadget Show. Recorded a new tune on an iPad and promised it would be the theme tune from then on. New series started, the tune was still there, but, the iPad recorded version was binned and a better version was in place. Of course, the tune they used was terrible anyway, but the iPad version made it even worse.

No idea if they are still using the tune, as I stopped watching after the first episode of the new format.

0
2
Silver badge

Re: So in summary

>Commercial audio creation apps on iOS? Seriously who would be using a phone to create music?

Lots of people... smart phones are less phones, and more general-purpose computers. The iPad is commonly used as a control surface for a Mac, for virtual mixing desks and the like, and will happily act as a synth for any MIDI keyboard attached to it- handy for recording melodies on the road. True, you wouldn't want to pass your audio stream through an iDevice- but then you wouldn't through any kit that wasn't designed for it- hence pricey external soundcards with branded ADCs. This should give you a flavour:

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2011/02/how-to-use-midi-to-make-an-ipad-more-musically-connected-productive-video-resources/

This guy routinely uses the G sensors in an arm-mounted iPhone in live performances- the rest of the kit he has built/modified himself and has open-sourced it on Thingiverse: http://onyx-ashanti.com/

Then you have all the acoustic musicians who use the iPad in place of sheet music http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/08/musicians-embrace-the-ipad-leave-sheet-music-at-home/243726/ , and use phones as guitar tuners and sound recorders (with plug-in microphones and ADCs).

I'm sure you don't need reminding that technology (and drugs) can change the sound of music, from Bach's clavier, through Wheatsone's concertina to Bo Diddely's solid-bodied electric guitar and the 808 and DX7 in the eighties.

5
5
Silver badge

Re: So in summary

>Apple say alot of things about Android, and 99% of the time it's utter bullshit. They know that by claiming that >Android lacks low latency audio (without any evidence to back it up),

Apple don't say that- Android users do (and demonstrate it), as do Google Android engineers. Horse's mouth. A Google Android engineer: "Latency is a big problem. We’re working at, hopefully we hope to be able to do something about it with ICS." It was a Google who said that on a Galaxy Nexus they had 100ms on ICS and 10ms on JB.

- http://www.rossbencina.com/code/dave-sparks-on-android-audio-latency-at-google-io-2011

I've posted links to back up observations, but you don't. Yet you complain about a lack of evidence. Oh well.

>they [Apple] have created a nice little excuse for developers to thus use when someone asks for an Android version.

Your theory gives Apple an excuse, but it is the developers who haven't developed the apps for Android- you haven't explained their motive for not doing so. In the link in an above post is an audio software developer stating their reasons for concentrating on iDevices first: basically, it comes down to latency, and also the smaller number of hardware variations amongst iDevices over Android devices. Sounds plausible, no?

>Android latency varies by device, Jellybean devices usually very good.

I said Jelly Bean was good in my original comment- and that 3rd party developers are actively looking at it now. But most Android devices aren't JB yet. Other enhancements for JB include USB audio device support and multichannel audio (including via HDMI). Google are also looking at imposing strict maximum latency requirements for third-party vendors at some time in the future.

I'm not for a moment saying that iPhones are the best phones for everyone, I'm just describing the evolving situation. I own an Android phone, and naturally want it to get better over time.

4
4
Anonymous Coward

Re: So in summary

Objective C is hardly esoteric. As a simple superset of C/C++, it's built into g++. If so inclined, you can write iPhone apps entirely in C/C++ with some calls to Obj-C classes sprinkled in to handle the UI. This is infinitely more programmer-friendly than trying to write UI in a Java layer and the backend in a C++ layer, and contorting yourself to connect the two, as many Android app developers end up doing.

3
2
Silver badge

Re: So in summary

>Objective C is hardly esoteric.

Only because Apple has had a decade for the ages business wise. You would have asked people in the mid to late 90s and they would have answered differently. Jobs pretty much single handedly kept ObjC from fading into the dust bin of obscure languages.

3
2
Silver badge

Re: So in summary

All you're seeing there is that when someone uses an Apple product, they have to advertise the fact, and it gets an article in the news. (And it's still a device looking for use - great, I can lug a big expensive device around, and leave the paper at home!)

Obviously one can use devices to display sheet music, including tablets, same with using devices in performances. Sorry, nothing special or magical about IOS.

2
1
Silver badge

Re: So in summary

I think it's unfair to compare on what Google say, as it's penalising them for being honest, whilst Apple meanwhile claim their devices are "magical"... (meanwhile most Apple users see imperfections as "Why would you want to do that", or even a feature).

"But most Android devices aren't JB yet."

Most devices aren't iphones. One can still buy a specific device if you know you want JB.

1
1
Silver badge

Re: So in summary

You can write the UI in C++ on Android - I don't see why the Java layer on Android needs to be anymore than what you say is needed for iphone?

Although I use Qt on Android, and don't write a single line of Java.

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: So in summary

The Android route would've been a very expensive mistake because it's a commercial software and needs paying customers. This Kickstarter demonstrates the point.

Developing on Android first, not having enough paying customers, then converting to iOS to make some money is the wrong way round -- why do you think so many paid apps are typically developed on iOS first?

1
1
Anonymous Coward

Re: So in summary

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-JYPyMFmLqrk/URUMoAgA77I/AAAAAAAAQtc/C_23DvqxzYo/s884/529593_328286830604295_1500112312_n.jpg

Try and spot objective C on there....

0
0
FAIL

Re: So in summary

"Seriously who would be using a phone to create music?"

Baristas hoping to get out of serving coffee and be the next Moby.,,,,

1
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: So in summary

You can only write the UI elements in Java on Android. You can write stuff in the NDK for performance critical code blocks, but not UI...

0
0

Re: So in summary

There's lots of professional music stuff on iOS, from synth/sampler/sequencer packages (NanoStudio), multi-track recorders (Multitrack DAW, FourTrack), full-blown combinations of the two (GarageBand), MIDI controllers, DAW controllers used in conjunction with software on a laptop, effects apps etc. Often with associated hardware, eg mics, line-in and instrument adapters, pedalboards, you name it. I've even heard of a setup using two iPads and CAT5 to replace hugely expensive multicore cable for the stage/mixer link for PA work. And you may have noticed one act during one of the Olympic ceremonies using three iPads. Most of this stuff works better on the iPad's bigger screen, but lots of it works on the iPhone/iPod touch which is handy for those uses for which you used to use a PortaStudio.

Not to mention the zillions of virtual instruments which are more on the entertainment level, eg the marvellous Pocket Guitar, which really has to be on a phone-sized device for you to play it.

Time to get that imagination of yours working a bit harder :-)

0
0
Anonymous Coward

My problem with Bjork doing this is (a) surely Bjork can afford to pay for this work herself (b) she is really annoying

1
0
Bronze badge
Happy

Why should she pick up the bill for doing this herself, when obviously there's no interest in it? That's a great thing about kickstarter, you can find out whether an idea is worth pursuing without raising cash FIRST and then losing it all if the idea tanks.

1
1
Alien

Bjork?

I thought the mothership had picked her up long ago.

1
0
Alien

Re: Bjork?

No just beamed her across the pond

0
0
Anonymous Coward

More like rewriting than porting

"375,000 bucks in around 28 days for something that has already been there (and should just be transferred to another platform)"

As someone who makes iOS apps and has looked into making Android apps, I encounter this attitude a lot. Most people assume it's easy to port iOS apps to Android and I don't do it for mine simply because I'm too lazy to click on a few buttons (or however the general population thinks apps are ported).

But really, anything to do with UI needs to be completely rewritten and in most cases redesigned because the UI libraries for each system are so radically different. Many apps don't have very sophisticated back ends, so rewriting the UI isn't much different from rewriting the entire app from the ground up.

That being said, 375k seems like a lot to charge for rewriting some song apps. Although I haven't used them so I don't know.

4
2
Silver badge

Re: More like rewriting than porting

You can always go the MonoTouch (with Unity3D for 3D engine) route which some commentards on here swear by but looks to be to be a dead end waiting to happen on IOS anyway.

1
0
Stop

"an app that teaches the basics of music"

May I recommend a book and a recorder. *toot toot*

Worked just fine for me - fun for all ages - no batteries required - let alone a fleet of rip off merchants

As someone with a casual interest in app development this is a fascinating comment section. As a musician this whole topic is quite frankly hilarious, in a very real and very tragic first world sense.

1
1
Boffin

missing information

It would help to give more background information on how Björk has always been using mobile technology for recording, composing and performing songs, but is really into the Apple gear now. Does all kinds of off stuff with it, often customized to her liking.

For the iOS app album she went with some of the top minds: http://www.wired.co.uk/magazine/archive/2011/08/features/music-nature-science . Which also mentions that the developers in that case funded the development themselves and solved with Apple problems of having songs both in app and iTunes stores.

Anyway, way more to this than meets the eye. Dear journalists, please spend a few minutes to ask around before reposting blogosphere quality material?

0
0
Gold badge

I've seen this app...

I've seen this app on television. I like Bjork but the app frankly looked rather silly -- she was using it to play the song, and it looked like there was just a lot of animation on screen and you'd prod various bits to play notes and sounds. The art and music are already in the app, 375,000 pounds sounds like a VERY high bill to port this.

0
0

There can be only one....Speak and Spell

0
0

Page:

This topic is closed for new posts.