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back to article BIS, bash, bosh: El Reg solves BlackBerry 10 email bafflement

Is a BlackBerry that doesn't use BlackBerry's email service still a BlackBerry? The Company-Otherwise-Known-As-RIM (TCOKARIM*) hopes so. It thinks it's time to move on, and in an attempt to broaden its appeal to new punters the new BlackBerry 10 phones won't support the BlackBerry Internet Service (BIS). Instead, the devices …

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Silver badge
Linux

During the RIM meltdown last year we invested in GOOD Technology that supports iPhones and Androids. One of the things they are raving about in the new phone is seperation of business and personal email. This is already part of GOOD and we use it effortlessly.

Even if the BB10 is perfect (and from what I see, it isn't) we are not going back to BB devices. Too little too late, I am afraid.

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Bronze badge

a question

I can see the separation of personal/business email being fairly simple but what about the rest. Can GOOD provide the same functionality to separate out things like applications and other data? This is fairly important as if you are looking at BYOD and then someone leaves you will want to remotely clear out all the business related stuff and if that hits any personal stuff then someone will not be very happy.

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oh whoopie do for you.

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It's not just the separation of business and personal email, that's easy, it;'s the separation of business and personal everything, including apps. So the user can install a personal app that has no access to corporate data for example.

Just ordered one, will find out if this really works as well as claimed.

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Anonymous Coward

Just have to hope that GOOD really fixed the issues that caused the company I once worked for to reject GOOD as too insecure. Someone other than me wrote up some of the issues with GFE at http://thomascannon.net/projects/android-reversing/

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How does Good cope with rooted/jailbroken personal phones?

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Re: @ Kevin Johnston

but what about the rest. Can GOOD provide the same functionality to separate out things like applications and other data?

Take a look at Sysmosoft's Sense platform. It's a "platform" app, which you can delegate apps into, thus seperating work & personal apps/data. There some downsides we discovered to this solution though, which are probably too detailed to post here.

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@ AC 15

It can, but what it does depends on what you specify in the useage policy.

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FAIL

"consumers will lose the end-to-end encrypted push email offered by BIS servers"

Oh great. Consumers will no longer be getting RIMmed - they'll be getting REAMED OUT thinking they've bought Blackberry's USP only to discover somebody's tinkered with their anus.

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Thumb Up

It's not that bad...

For smaller companies who have one or two Exchange servers, and didn't want the hassle of adding BIS to their infrastructure, adding ActiveSync to the clients makes the Z10 (and Q10) viable options. Say what you like about RIM/BB, but if it's primarily email you need on-the-go and a massive battery life to boot, then the classic blackberry handset form factor is hard to beat.

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Silver badge

Great name

T'COK-A-RIM, great name. And if they do formally change, I trust you'll call them Blackberry - Otherwise Formerly As RIM - or BOF-A-RIM

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Re: Great name

How about simply :

Company Once Curiously Know as RIM

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Re: Great name

Has anyone on this site ever seen a chicken?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x-7v3PJ6Eg

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Bronze badge

Re: Great name

pretty good....but

Company Once Curiously Know as Rim - Its Now Gone , or COCKRING

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Silver badge
Holmes

Are we to understand there's a BES (corporate) e-mail client in BB10 but no BIS (consumer) e-mail client? If I already had an old BlackBerry, a BlackBerry SIM, and BIS via my network operator and I put my BlackBerry SIM in my Z10, my BIS e-mail wouldn't work no matter how much I tinkered with it?

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(Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

Correct.

I tried Blackberry-enabled SIMs and regular SIMs, and there's no difference. I thought it was a bug, rang Canada to check, but it's a feature.

You can make your own arrangement and buy a hosted Blackberry email account, or add Blackberry to a hosted Exchange account (it's a free addon from some mail providers).

The market is much healthier now than a few years ago, as most clients now support Exchange, and you can buy hosted Exchange for around £3/mth.

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Silver badge
Holmes

Re: Correct.

Thanks. So consumers who want to use both BBM and BlackBerry push e-mail on a Z10 could find themselves paying twice, once to the network operator for BBM via BIS if they don't throw BIS in and once to the alternate e-mail provider?

Do you know if the Z10 works with a BES Express server and gives you proper BlackBerry push e-mail (no need to hold the connection open all the time and send wakeup messages every so often)?

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Gold badge
Coat

So they're over the RIM?

Presumably now sliding down the bowl and picking up speed on their way to the U-bend.

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Holmes

U Bend

Before you go, I would like to mention that toilets have S bends. There was a lovely lass at my university with that nickname. (No malice intended, of course.)

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Bronze badge

Baby out with the bathwater.

BIS (and the good text input) is the main reason I keep my 9700. What I would like to see the back of freezes and the need for daily reboots and the limited number of apps I can install. But if I would be losing the two things I like, what is the point?

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Boffin

Re: Baby out with the bathwater.

Lack of BIS is also making me iffy on this. Maybe I should go and upgrade to a 9900 instead, and sit out on this BB10 thing. I was going to jump in, but losing BIS is well, kinda losing the BB security advantage of having a BB. Yes, the handset itself is going to be FIPS 140-2 certified, but the email is going to take longer to get there, and it'll go unencrypted, *and* eat through my standard data plan.

On the upside, by the time I jump to BB10 maybe they'll re-open BIS and they'll have more apps to boot.

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Re: Baby out with the bathwater.

If you've got IMAP via SSL it won't go unencrypted. But if there's no proper push e-mail for non-corporate users, there's no real reason for me to use a BlackBerry. (IMAP IDLE isn't proper push.)

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Now I want one.

Been wanting a Blackberry for the last few years but refused to pay a fiver a month more for something that isn't that much better than the IMAP I already use.

Glad that my next phone doesn't have to mean giving all my data to Google or paying Apple's lawyeers to talk shit.

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Silver badge

Remember back in the days before kitchensinkware?

Life really was much simpler back then.

I know how and where to apply the old tools. And where and when they are appropriate. Which is nearly everywhere. I seem to get more actual work done than my more "up to date" contemporaries using the latest bit of advertising-hyped glitter ... to the point where I am turning down unsolicited contracts, even in this economy.

I rather suspect I'm more "connected" (whatever that means) than most. Probably because I actually understand how the systems work, and don't just blindly do what the marketards tell me.

I have fewer security related issues, too. As do my clients. Imagine that.

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Really, How Many Would Care?

Like dog plus 80% of world, I'm already downloading e-mail to my phone without BIS. In terms of data or power usage it's a minuscule thing. Push e-mail would be nice, but it's hardly a deal breaker.

I'm looking at the new Blackberrys to replace my Google phone not because I want or need BIS, but because I find the Nexus just isn't cut out for creating and handling information. By which I mean, writing an e-mail more than three sentences long.

I've been looking for BB reviews to get a better idea how well it will work for me, but have thus far been frustrated by the fragmentary and biased nature of everything I've found. Between the anti-RIM bitching, and the BB fanboi commentards, there is bloody little useful information to be had.

At least now I know how it will play with Gmail, which I use pretty much exclusively. I think I read that the BB will work OK with Google calendar. But beyond that, not much to go on.

For instance - real world battery life - not "if you turn off 4G." Battery with GPS, WIFI, and full phone function running.

For instance - how does the mapping and GPS compare to Google, or can I use Google's product on the phone?

For instance - how is the BB to use in cold or wet conditions - this is Canada after all, and the Nexus can be pretty irritating in snow and ice.

For instance - how does the camera rate? Does it, unlike my JB powered Nexus, allow me turn off the shutter click?

And, dare I say it, Twitter, Facebook, Google+....

Honestly, I thought that some of the reviewers who've had these phones for several week could have come up with a decently comprehensive review.

(Of course now I'll pointed to a half dozen such reviews. Oh well. (PS - a YouTube video of flashy features doesn't cut it either))

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Re: Really, How Many Would Care?

>Does it, unlike my JB powered Nexus, allow me turn off the shutter click?

That's the law in some places, due to problems with pervs snapping upskirt photos.

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@ Barry Rueger

Shutter click? that's a deal maker for you?

Quite an easy hack to turn it off on your nexus

how is the BB to use in cold or wet conditions?

Depends on the model, but if it has a touch screen, well it would be as bad as your droid.

And, dare I say it, Twitter, Facebook, Google+..

It can do them, just as well \ badly as the other smart phones

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Re: Really, How Many Would Care?

Where? and how do they deal with "real" cameras, all of which AFAIK allow you to run silent?

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Re: @ Barry Rueger

Quite an easy hack to turn it off on your nexus

I'm fairly hack friendly, and even ran CM for a while, but no, turning off the shutter sound is not all that easy on JB.

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Re: Really, How Many Would Care?

People keep telling me this, but no-one ever can offer a link to a specific place or law. Web searches turn up nothing. I call BS on that old story.

Besides, every "real" camera in the world lets you runs of the noises.

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A bit odd

I think dropping BIS is a mistake but I do understand the reasoning as discussed above, BIS is the main reason I went back to BB from a Windows 7.5 phone the data usage was horrendous as I manage 4 different business email accounts for my various small enterprises.

BIS has always given me great reliability, I didnt really suffer with the network issues as I simply logged into my email via other means.

My costs have been minimal since switching back but I do miss that big screen and apps from my iPhone 3GS.

I am none the wiser which way to go in november, Android is too fragmented, IOS could be it and BB has to give me a reason to stick with it....I was really hoping for a big win this time from RIM and its not clear to me (as a fan of BB) that I should stick with them....

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