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back to article Obama calls for study into games ‘n’ guns link

US President Barack Obama has called for a study into whether computer games are a cause of gun violence. Obama yesterday (UK time) announced a set of measures to control guns, among them regulations to more promptly trace firearms used in crimes that will probably mean DBAs in the US public sector get a hurry-up. The main …

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Holmes

Want to throw in some D&D while you're at it? I'm sure there's still some good scapegoat juice left in that one even after the satanic panic.

Anything that gets you away from investigating the real problem. You know, that one that you're forbidden by law from funding research in to.

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Meh

Not the Games it's the culture

In the 1990's an American chap found that he was being sacked from his printing and sinage firm for poor work, time keeping etc. He said, 'is that so' then pulled a 9mm pistol out and began killing people then after he had enough he killed himself.. I forget his name but he is listed on Murderpedia.

The previous month he had joined a gun club to learn to shoot efficiently and bought by mail order 12,000 rounds of ammunition. Apparently he had a lifetime history of depression for which he was being medically treated. He did not play computer games.

Allowing a manic depressive to buy a weapon and ammunition enough for an army without checks is the problem not computer games.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Not the Games it's the culture

I agree checks & balances are needed,

I hope they never go as far as the Idiots we have in power went.. i.e. banning pretty much anything except shotguns & rifles, yet not tightening up checks on who can own, rather why they can own....

I know people I would trust to own Assault rifles & hand guns, I also know people I don't trust with a potato peeler, the whole thing should be checks on the persons sanity, and history...

My dad taught me to shoot at a young age (ok it was air pistols & rifles, but still they are guns)

I was taught safety and responsibility with weapons...

Guns don't kill, people kill, people use whatever weapon they can get...

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Impossibru...

It was determined last election that playing WoW is a-ok.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/maine-candidates-world-of-warcraft-persona-stirs-debate/

I/we still play Everquest (yeah e;\l Reg, I note there was NOT an article talking about EQ's new expansion 'Rain of Fear", like there was for WoW's new Kung Fu Panda's, but I digress).

;)

Jeanmirac lvl 85 Shadow Knight

Getter lvl 70 Druid

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Facepalm

e;\; Reg....

Please excuse... my Home Row seems to be off about ten pixels this morning....

Odd...

;)

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Man who...

...drops drones on innocent civilians and refuses to prosecute Bush-era torturers prepares to shake finger of stern disapproval at (partially) military-supported games devs.

Welcome to dystopia. Please leave your morals behind the metal sliding door and proceed to the decontamination chambers.

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Re: Not the Games it's the culture

>Guns don't kill, people kill, people use whatever weapon they can get...

That's rather the point:

Pissed off Welshman in a transit van- kills two people.

Pissed off taxi driver with a shotgun- kills more people (but only killed that many because he was able to keep moving)

Pissed off youth with a hand gun- kills far more people.

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people. And monkeys kill people if you give them guns and throw themover the wall of Charlton Heston's house."

Eddie Izzard

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Not the Games it's the culture@AC09:24

Guns are mounted on ships, artillery for the army, pistols are hand held, rifles have a rifled barrel.

This includes air 'guns', they are still rifles and pistols, though you may get away with the term gun if they are smooth bore.

If I am wrong correct me, it will show you are as pedantic as I am and I really don't give a hoot!

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WTF?

Apparently

It is quite common in American Cinemas for audiences to cheer and whoop after car chases and gun battles during the film and then clap loudly cheering the film. The phenomenon was first noted in the US during the screening of Reservoir Dogs.

This is possibly a good indicator of American Mentality.

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Hey certain quarters are STILL trying to blame the decline of all civilization on DOOM almost 20 years later.

Government hearings..what could go wrong? Maybe Tipper Gore could help out...John Carmack could end up playing Frank Zappa and CliffyB could be Dee Snyder.

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Devil

Re: Apparently

The "American Mentality"......

As I sit here hand lapping my ruthlessly sharp cutting tools.....

Hmmm but America has 5% of the worlds population, consumes 2/3rd of the worlds anti psychotic drugs, a fair slice of the population is incredibly stupid, the American media are a bunch of corporate wankers who tie in with the military industrial complex, and getting their own senators into power....

So you have a nation on permanent war footing, against imaginary enemies, under the guise of "spreading freedom and democracy" to every other country that has oil or minerals.... that they want to steal by sending in the military...

And Obama - just how many fucking bullshit studies have been done, so far, that link or not, computer games to nutters with guns?

One American kid I went to school with, said, some 30 years ago, that gun murders are so common, that unless there is like 20 people dead, a shoot out of 3 or 4 people etc., does not even make the news.

And yet in Australia, he said, one person gets shot and it's major head lines.... and he could not believe the difference in the way the media here, reported it, as compared to "every day shoot outs" in the USA.

So Obasma puts his hand on his cock and comes out with another bullshit idiot study that has been done 500 times before.....

While the amount of drone attacks on people in Afganistan and Pakistan, has multiplied like 10 fold, since he took over from Bush......

Satan - he was a born liar.

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Guns don't kill people

Animated sprites of guns kill people

And the cup-cakes in Pacman caused obesity

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Re: Guns don't kill people

... and playing Monopoly as a child made me a millionaire.

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Correlation =/= Causation

Playing video games makes you a killer - doubtful.

Playing video games and killing people because your parents didn't give you any time - plausible.

or

Playing video games because you don't get on well with people - plausible.

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Re: Correlation =/= Causation

I agree Dave,

Maybe they could do a study along the lines of:

Subject group 1 - Hardened gamers who are able to lay hands on fairly readily available weapons

Subject group 2 - Hardened gamers who cant get hands on weapons

Maybe then we can see how many more weapon rampages there are in one group over the other?

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Mushroom

Re: Correlation =/= Causation

Doubt you would find many that fell into group 2.

Most hardened gamers have a pretty good idea how to use common household items as weapons, especially if they tabletop gamed for any period.

Now who's for a game of Killer (tm Steve Jackson Games)?

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Coat

Re: Guns don't kill people

"If video games influenced life, kids who grew up in the 80’s would be running around in darkened rooms, listening to repetitive electronic music, and popping magic pills.

..Oh, wait….”

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Re: Guns don't kill people

And kids who grew up in the 70s would be playing squash, very slowly, in black and white

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Guns don't kill people

"And the cup-cakes in Pacman caused obesity"

Well that gave certainly made me spend the 90s in dark rooms munching pills!

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Re: Guns don't kill people

Not to mention all that urban planning fad spawned by Sim City.

Guns don't kill people.

Fathers with beautiful daughters do.

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Happy

White House Accused of Lateral Thinking

This is great news, although somehow I doubt that anyone will listen to the results.

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Holmes

Re: White House Accused of Lateral Thinking

American right wing groups have a long history of rejecting science or experts in any field and being damn proud of it.

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Re: White House Accused of Lateral Thinking

If only they would add films and TV into the mix, because it's all media right?

In a gun game, you usually bring your own morals (up to a point obviously - the game kind of forces you to shoot people).

In films and TV the morals of the characters are also pushed down your brain-stem - far more influential I would have thought

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Gav
Holmes

Re: White House Accused of Lateral Thinking

... except where it suits them.

It's a right-wing personality trait the world over to over-confidence in subjective personal experience as a indication of universal "natural" law. If anyone disputes that personal experience as being universal, then clearly they are wrong, probably deceitfully so. This personality also finds it difficult to believe that the rest of us are equipped with just as much intelligence, morals and self-control as them.

So if their personal experience is to find video games violent, then heaven knows what that must be doing to those weak-willed amongst us! Should any study indicate this as a possibility (and I, personally, can't say it's beyond impossible) then I'm sure the results will be embraced of proof of what they always knew anyway.

Should the study suggest there is no link, it will of course be indication that it was conducted by idiots who have vested interests in ignoring what everyone knows as common sense. The cancer in our society goes as deep as we always suspected and starts with Obama!

Either way the right wing believes what it chooses to believe.

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Happy

Re: White House Accused of Lateral Thinking

Every games console should come with the game Flower - you play the part of petal, drifting in the breeze and bringing colour to the meadows of a gently rolling landscape. It certainly calmed me down after I discovered that the last ten years have left my reflexes too blunt to play WipEout HD!

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Anonymous Coward

@Gav

The interesting thing about your post is that you could replace every occurrence of "right-wing" with "left-wing" and it would just as true as it is now.

But you are too bigoted to notice. "Either way Gav believes what he chooses to believe."

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Re: @Gav

>The interesting thing about your post is that you could replace every occurrence of "right-wing" with "left-wing" and it would just as true as it is now.

No, you can't just swap 'right-wing' for 'left-wing'. Here's why: http://www.ted.com/talks/david_pizarro_the_strange_politics_of_disgust.html

or teacher.edmonds.wednet.edu/edmondswoodway/jspears/documents/conservsatives_are_more_easily_disgusted_than_liberals.pdf [Warning: PDF] if you want the sources.

Gaz was referring to published articles. It is in fact you, AC, who is believing what you choose to.

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@Obsolutions

I don't think its such great news, but then again I also don't live in the US.

To me this strongly looks like an issue of shoving away responsibilities. The administration can't (most likely won't / refuses) to make their own stand on a topic which has become a rather sensitive one. And many people getting involved with a topic automatically means many voters may form their opinion.

The reason I'm so cynical is because this means absolutely nothing by itself. They call out for a study; ok.. Who is going to be researching what exactly, how is the research going to be performed, -what- exactly is going to be researched?

Because in general a research is as good as the used methods and the (sometimes twisted) way the end results get interpretated. You can easily make a research which proves A look as if it fully proves B by merely presenting the results in a different manner.

I wouldn't be surprised if the administration eventually uses the results of the study to give the DA office a slap on the hands and then everyone can go on with their lives while in the end nothing has really changed. The major issue is that it really looked good and official on paper.

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Unhappy

Re: White House Accused of Lateral Thinking

"American right wing groups have a long history of rejecting science or experts in any field and being damn proud of it."

Including (but not limited to) evolution.

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Devil

Games 'n guns link?

I've visited half a dozen firearms dealers and still cannot buy a Flak Cannon, Rail Gun, Rocket Launcher or Health Pickups...

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Re: Games 'n guns link?

Let alone a phased plasma rifle in a 40 watt range...

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Re: Games 'n guns link?

Try your local flea market. Tha'ts where I got my BFG

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MJI
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Re: Games 'n guns link?

I'd be happy with a STA52, or a M82, but anyone know where I could get a Bullseye from?

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Unhappy

Re: Games 'n guns link?

Apparently they don't make Wattz 2000 rifles...

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Re: Games 'n guns link?

I was wondering where my Raven was... or the Awesome.... or the Atlas... and I was hoping to get one of the new Clan Mech's when they're released, but I'm not sure who will be selling them...

On the other hand, it's no problem if I did go around slaughtering thousands, is it? After all: They re-spawn after a few minutes, or appear at the shrine, or I can resurrect them, or they can take 100 rounds of .44 exploding magnum rounds and still keep carting that half-tonne flamethrower around...

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Go

Re: Games 'n guns link?

Thank you for the MechWarrior Online reference! (Or as I prefer to call it, Stompy Robots)

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FAIL

Maybe instead of pissing away money the yanks don't have on a study he could simply look at anyone of the dozens of accredited studies that have already been done... you know the ones that show just like any form of violent media, games don't cause violent behaviour, they might escalate it, but the person already needs to be a few bits short of a byte.

But oh no, let's not deal with the real problems like a lack of mental health treatment or controlling access to firearms, let's blame video games and movies... hell why not claim comics cause homosexuality while we're at it! Oh wait... that's already been done.

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Anonymous Coward

@tkioz

"But oh no, let's not deal with the real problems like a lack of _compulsory_ mental health treatment..."

Have you got any more superficial observations to make?

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Re: @tkioz

Piss off AC

Don't use quotation marks for a sentence that tkioz did not use. He did not say 'compulsory'. If you want to quote someone, but believe the quote is missing a word, use [ ] to denote the words you have added.

We have enough straw men already, thank you.

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FAIL

Re: @tkioz

AC, so you are saying that because I think the lack of treatment for the mentally ill I'm in favour of 1984 style mind-control... yeah... bugger off please.

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Childcatcher

Of course there's a link

This very morning I played Quake III for an hour and subsequently couldn't help myself. I hatched a cunning plan to drop an anvil on a wily coyote.

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Boffin

how about another study

How many violent crimes these games have PREVENTED over the years?

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Joke

Re: how about another study

I was going to go beat a hooker to death last night, but I stayed home and played GTA instead.

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And television sitcoms cause ...

... random acts of comedy.

Puh-lease.

The REAL cause of gun violence is bad parenting. End of discussion.

But then that's not politically correct ...

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Unhappy

Re: And television sitcoms cause ...

What a wonderful black and white world you live in. Must be a bit cold at night sleeping on a zebra crossing.

A persons personality is affected by more than just their parental guidance. Environment and peers have just as much effect on a person. There is also genetic variables that determine personality.

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Re: And television sitcoms cause ...

"A persons personality is affected by more than just their parental guidance."

OK, I'll bite ... let's think this through together, shall we?

"Environment and peers have just as much effect on a person."

Until the "age of consent", that's a parent's responsibility, no?

"There is also genetic variables that determine personality."

By definition, parental ... I rest my case.

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Re: And television sitcoms cause ...

Completely agree with you, parents need to control their kids, give them a loving home, teach them discipline...

Unfortunately not every child has a happy home, and the state does have a responsibility to help, so I think schools should also have a responsibility to care for children, to ensure they do their best...make schools the place kids feel safest and happiest... not like when I went to school when I would do anything to avoid it due to the teachers...

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Stop

Re: And television sitcoms cause ...

"The REAL cause of gun violence is bad parenting. End of discussion."

Bullshit.

It's a combination of things. Abusive parents do tend to result in children who are potential problems, but tritely pointing the finger there and saying 'job done' is the epitome in stupidity.

Other factors include but are not limited to:

A healthcare system that means those most in need of mental care can't afford it.

Massive poverty and inequality.

Ease of obtaining firearms, both for criminals and for those who really shouldn't be owning them.

An overly harsh system of incarceration that removes any motivation for criminals NOT to carry a firearm.

A society which is inherently violent and which glamorises and constantly reinforces that violence is a solution to problems.

A score of other social issues, not least of which is condemning anyone who picks up a firearm in desperation as the problem, instead of a desire to prevent the issues which caused them to do so.

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@Psyx (was: Re: And television sitcoms cause ...)

"A healthcare system that means those most in need of mental care can't afford it."

Parents who are incapable of understanding the need to care for children.

"Massive poverty and inequality."

Parents having kids who can't afford to care for those kids.

"Ease of obtaining firearms, both for criminals and for those who really shouldn't be owning them."

Parents not properly teaching kids right from wrong.

"An overly harsh system of incarceration that removes any motivation for criminals NOT to carry a firearm."

Apparently, the parents in your scenario failed.

"A society which is inherently violent and which glamorises and constantly reinforces that violence is a solution to problems."

Oh. You're one of those idiots that thinks TV and video games are more important than parenting. And THAT, friends & foes, is PRECISELY the problem. It has nothing to do with hardware. It's a social issue. Removing any particular bit of hardware from the equation, without addressing the social side of things, will just make other bits of hardware attractive to the social maladroits.

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