back to article Nokia axes 300 IT bods, outsources 820 to Tata, HCL

Nokia will outsource 820 IT staff and make 300 more redundant, leaving a skeleton IT operation at the troubled phone maker. Up to 560 staff will transfer to Tata Consultancy Services and 260 to HCL Technologies, both of which are headquartered in India. Nokia says it has a relationship with the pair. Only small teams will …

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Unhappy

Nokia to align IT function with its business focus

which with Nokia seems to be 'outsource it! outsource it!!'

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FAIL

Re: Nokia to align IT function with its business focus

For those living under a rock for the last 30 years, this is known as "The Microsoft Effect".

What follows is job losses, shit products, loss of market share and previously loyal customers suddenly hating you before inevitably you go bust and history records you forever as just another of Microsofts bitches. Mysteriously, however, the top brass who's palm was greased with silver over the original deal always seem to do very well out of it..

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Childcatcher

Re: Nokia to align IT function with its business focus

Jesus H. Fucking Christ, Bob. I have had to upvote you again.

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Re: Nokia to align IT function with its business focus

I don't know why you're on about MS over this.

It happens with any OS, including the mainframe IBM OSes that were around when Bill Gates was a lad in shorts and Unix.

But you're right about the bribes, er uh, "fishing trips, free meals, conventions in Bahamas, etc. that are an integral part of doing business". I didn't mention them in my earlier post.

And if the bribes aren't enough, chances are your executive quits and gets hired on at a huge salary by the new outsourcer.

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I see the MS reference now, someone else made the same oversight below

There is a huge difference, a mammoth difference, between doing an MS (or IBM) and opening an office in India and hiring staff loyal to you there, and outsourcing to staff loyal to another company.

Switching to an outsourcer, means having staff dedicated to transferring as much wealth as possible from your company to their company.

It matters not if the outsources is in India, the USA or UK -- look at the NHS e-health contracting. Look at other government contracting to domestic body shops.

It is the change in IT staff allegiance that kills your business. They go from being loyal leaches trying to cost their company as little as possible to leaches loyal to an external blood sucking enterprise that is trying to drain your company of as much wealth as possible.

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Mushroom

Re: Nokia to align IT function with its business focus

Nokia just returned from losses to profitability though (in no small part due to high sales of the Lumia Windows Phone limited only by supply) so clearly what they are doing is working...

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/01/18/a-smart-move-for-nokia.aspx

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/jan/10/nokia-lumia-record-demand

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Mushroom

That's a lot of tech staff to outsource especial for a Tech company! Beginning of the end me thinks.

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Mushroom

Cutting costs is normal for a company that is restructuring.

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Anonymous Coward

Hardly, people outsource to get flexibility.

It's like hosting, you can do it in house but if you want more capacity or less capacity then that means either buying kit or mothballing it.

Same goes for the workforce. You outsource the more generic business functions if you need flexibility.

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They're cutting productivity, not costs.

They're switching from staff loyal to making them Nokia profitable to staff loyal to billing Nokia as much as possible.

The sound you hear is a death knell.

Good to hear this now as I'd been thinking of getting one of their phones.

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Anonymous Coward

> Cutting costs is normal for a company that is restructuring.

Even more so for a company that's going arse over tit.

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"Good to hear this now as I'd been thinking of getting one of their phones."

Unfortunately that 808 PV is their only real smartphone around. All that WP-stuff is more like a featurephone with more apps than the regular featurephones. A superfeaturephone like the iPhone. Way to restricted to be really usefull but great to show off for 5 minutes at a party.

Besides I need 2-way call recording. My 2005 SE K750i had it, my 2008 WM 6.1 Samsung Omnia had it and since then all my Symbian devices had it (improved with automatic call recording even). I can't go back to pre-2005 era crapphones. Especially since these days calling while driving is prohibited in most o/t western world not to mention that automatic call-recording saves me over 20000 UKP a year (for not hiring a secretary to handle my calls).

I was hoping that RIM's new offering might provide call-recording but I doubt it. Which means i have no choice. The only phone available to handle call-recording out of the box is a symbian device.

And NO I'm NOT interested in tampering/rooting/jailbreakin nor custom firmware etc.. That's way too much hassle for a device that should JUST WORK!

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Re: Beginning of the end me thinks.

Beginning?

Phase 2 or 3 at least.

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Anonymous Coward

Hardly

A look at the recent Nokia financial results and the improvement in the past few months of their share price points to this hardly being the beginning of the end, but rather the start of a fantastic new chapter of rebirth and growth in the company. Their Windows Phone 8 range was sold out for weeks you couldn't buy one anywhere. People are starting to realise there is now a viable alternative to Android and Apple backed by two companies who know a thing or two about computers and mobile phones. What better partnership for your smartphone?

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Pint

Re: Hardly

"I'll have what he's having"

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Hardly

And thn you should probably smoke it ;)

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Hardly

Em, a tech company with no tech. Sounds promising !

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Hardly

That's one of the poorest shills I've seen for a long time - if I was Microsoft I'd be asking for my money back.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Hardly

"backed by two companies who know a thing or two about computers and mobile phones"

I didn't realise that Nokia & MS were getting new expert partners involved

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Re: Hardly

Come on Elop, don't post anonymously!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Hardly

Google didn't exist until 1998, Nokia were producing smartphones a year after in 1999 (Nokia 9100). We all know about Microsoft, much of the early home computer revolution was powered with Microsoft BASIC, being the first thing you saw when you switched on a Commodore PET.

Google haven't developed much from scratch, a few "me too" web services and some search engine technology. Android was developed by Android Inc who Google purchased. The core of the OS is Linux based, again not developed by Google.

Windows Phone 8 is developed by Microsoft, with some contributions from Nokia. I'd call that a lot more of an achievement than using some free OS, a hacked up version of Java started by Apache and some iPhone insired UI designs.

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WTF?

Re: Hardly

Lol, you really believe that tripe don't you.

Nobody I know owns windows phone, you never see them out and about either.

It's a total failure.

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Re: Hardly

> powered with Microsoft BASIC,

MS Basic may well have been used on several early computers but it wasn't written from scratch. It was based on an open source BASIC interpreter for DEC machines, such as the one that BillG programmed at Harvard. Development for Intel 8080 was done using compilers on DEC so the Altair BASIC was developed on DEC at a university (which BillG never paid for the time used) and transferred to Altair on paper tape.

MS-DOS was developed by SCP and initially licenced and then bought outright by MS.

MS-SQL server was bought from Sybase. FrontPage was developed by Vermeer Technologies Inc. The original MS C was bought from Lattice.

In fact most of Microsoft was 'me too' either copying what was already on the market or just buying in a product.

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Re: Hardly

Evening RICHTO, still plugging away at the cr*p

"much of the early home computer revolution was powered with Microsoft BASIC"

much of the early home computer revolution was hindered with Microsoft BASIC - fixed

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Pint

Re: Hardly

I don't know what you are smoking, but could you please put me on to your supplier, because I want some - NOW!

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Re: Hardly

So Chemist, you preferred x86 assembler?

Why don't I believe that.

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Re: Hardly

Me, I jumped from SC/MP assembler to 6809 assembler/Forth to C on 68K and the x86 C under Linux. I have used a MS 6502 ROM basic but it had a huge bug in its garbage collector.

Today all 6 current machines run Linux.

I suppose you don't believe any of this either, but I must admit I don't really care.

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gjw
FAIL

Beginning of the End

The things that led up to the N97 disaster were the beginning of the end afaic. They're just winding up now.

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Thumb Up

Finally!

Finally, Nokia are concentrating on their core business again!

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Re: Finally!

Are they leaving technology and going to strictly stick to sales and marketing other people's products?

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Mushroom

Still haven't taken their inept marketing department out back and shot them?

Then they're not really fixing the problem them.

Well, unless they made a start by taking Elop out back and shooting him.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Still haven't taken their inept marketing department out back and shot them?

I'm not sure they've got an 'out back' any more - I think they've sold it off. They'll have to take them out front!

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Anonymous Coward

"Windows Phone 8 handset maker"

Not "Finnish phone maker" any more...

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Re: "Windows Phone 8 handset maker"

"Finnish"?

Just finished more like.

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HCL were there already for about two years. Raise a ticket, hear nothing back

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Anonymous Coward

Singapore based companies are better. They say "yes yes yes"' first of all, and only then do nothing. Communication is important, don't they know that? ;)

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Meh

James47 - Hah! I remember that and all the moaning about them on the internal facebook tool (socialcircle or socialjerk or something it was called).

At least I got paid off by Nokia a year ago, rather that than getting shifted sideways into HCL. I feel for those left behind.

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Anonymous Coward

it wasn't the n97 vs the iphone

...it was Elop, who completely betrayed them as he bent over forwards for his old lover Ballmer.

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im sick of getting turned down at job interviews for not being indian

okay i said it. when the guy interviewing you is indian, and all his staff are indians, and he says you can do the job but he gives the job to another indian because you are white - that is racism. and ive seen it so many times.

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Re: im sick of getting turned down at job interviews for not being indian

Indian, Chinese, American, ...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: im sick of getting turned down at job interviews for not being indian

I think they'ŗe trying it on with contracts in Europe as well. The clue is they never phone you back, even though you might be the only candidate that speaks the relevant local language and has the right skills and certs... I think they are routinely lying to the customer who needs the staff, too.

Presumable they just keep searching and searching and then lose the contract. Do their bosses in UK know, or the press?

Any elections coming up soon? Maybe some big fines to the agencies for violating EU and UK employment and discrimination regs or a couple of weeks porridge would wake them up.

Could be ever so easily tested by a couple of journalists or an EU researcher, just make up a name for a suitable CV ;)

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Re: im sick of getting turned down at job interviews for not being indian

i'm going to set up an Indian account on monster and put on the Short Circuit accent and take the piss with these guys.

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Meh

Nokia is going the way of Commodore

They had it all, but they fucked it all away :/

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Nokia is going the way of Commodore

Ahh, reminds me of the old Whitney Houston song ....

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"Nokia to align IT function with its business focus"

how do you align with "up own arse"?

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Unhappy

So the MS philosophy is infesting Nokia as well

MS, and companies living in the MS ecosystem are the ones that rely heavily in outsourcing everything to India. So it seems Elop is infesting Nokia with this mindset as well. So sad...

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between opening an office in India and hiring staff loyal to you, and outsourcing to staff

There is a huge difference, a mammoth difference, between opening an office in India and hiring staff loyal to you there, and outsourcing where you're getting staff loyal to another company.

Opening an office in India, or other comparatively low wage area, like Ireland or Canada, that cuts payroll expenses.

Switching to an outsourcer, means having staff dedicated to transferring as much wealth as possible from your company to their company.

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Anonymous Coward

Can all the prophets, oracles and technology visionaries on here who have all posted to say that Nokia is heading for the wall please back up their claims with facts, figures & URLs where applicable?

It just seems to be a bunch of Android fandroids spouting doom and gloom because they are concerned about an OS that isn't tied to one specific hardware manufacturer that could eat at Androids marketshare in 2/3 years time.

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Stop

When was the last time saw anyone with a Nokia smartphone

Exactly....

A barren marketplace and a non existent user base and some BS to keep shareholders happy

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> please back up their claims with facts, figures & URLs where applicable?

> because they are concerned about an OS ... that could eat at Androids marketshare in 2/3 years time.

What astounding irony. You demand facts and figures and then make completely unsupported speculative claims.

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