back to article DoJ to Kim Dotcom: We never asked you to retain files

Days ahead of what The Reg has been told will be an “unforgettable evening” at the Dotcom mansion to launch Kim Dotcom’s new Mega service, US authorities have refuted the brash entrepreneur’s insistence that the files he is being prosecuted for hosting were only there because Dotcom was asked to assist with other piracy …

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Meh

Re: US Authorities

The D of J have spent the last year deleting all the evidence of their communications with Dot Com prior to them stealing his servers.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: US Authorities

Fascism and socialism are both similar? Has someone been tweaking the Eadon script to add idiotic political opinions as well?

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Flame

Re: US Authorities

"This Kim guy is fighting back against..."

You obviously don't know him very well. Do a bit of research on what an utter cock he is before lauding him as the new Jesus just because he happens to be doing something you approve of at the moment.

Bring on the downvotes...

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Re: US Authorities

Yes, he may be a cock but in no way does that excuse what the US Gov have done here.

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Re: US Authorities

Fascism and socialism are both similar?

No, only one of them is.

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Re: US Authorities - F**K Yeah!

Wish I could upvote you twice - Team America? Seems that Parker and Stone had hit the nail on the head.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: utter cock

so thats one utter cock up against a department of utter cocks then? Thought cockfighting was banned, but maybe it isn't in NZ?

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Facepalm

Re: US Authorities

"Fascism and socialism are both similar?"

Yes, pretty much. In socialism (or communism*) all people are equal in theory, some are more equal than others in practice (thanks George Orwell), and the 'all equal' bit frequently means 'all of our countrymen, not the outsiders of course'. Fascism takes the 'us vs them' to the same extreme. And while in theory in communism there is no private property, in practice being in control of what is nominally a state property amounts to the same thing. In both cases, the basic economic principle is, if you're 'in' with the state you'll be given stuff, if not you'll have stuff taken from you. Both aspire to complete state control of every aspect of life, one-party state.

Oh, and you do know that the 'zi' part of Nazi comes from 'sozialist', right?

*For many USians, these 2 are the same. Europeans of course know that it's perfectly possible to live in a democratic socialist state that has far higher standards of living than the US, AND at least as much personal freedom (Scandinavia).

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Re: US Authorities

Swartz was not being prosecuted for copyright violation, and your saying so repeatedly does not make it true.

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FAIL

Re: US Authorities

"The D of J have spent the last year deleting all the evidence of their communications with Dot Com prior to them stealing his servers."

Seriously? You actually think that would happen? That law enforcement agencies have mechanisms in place where it's really easy to just remove any record of court documents, legal proceedings and formal legal requests. You don't think that the Judge signing off on the requests would object to the massive piece of corruption that you are suggesting?

That would clearly be a blisteringly stupid thing to do, because all it would require is for DotCom to have kept ONE email or hard copy in order to catch the DoJ breaking half a dozen laws. And then people would be losing their jobs and going to jail and the entire case would fall apart.

The DoJ's case lawyers aren't going to be that stupid. They might professionally want Kim, but I very much doubt any of them would willingly go to jail over it.

What happened here was clearly that Kim made a baseless allegation, as backed up by his total inability to prove it. If they asked for him to help in operations he would have some kind of record somewhere.

From the look of things, Kim's legal team are out of their depth and making mistakes.

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Boffin

Re: US Authorities

"...scientific works that were created by pubilc [sic] money."

They might have been depending on how they are funded but they were certainly not published with public money. And then you make the assumption that science would be helped by replicating the articles over hundreds of isolated repositories. But don't let any reality get in the way of fantasies.

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Re: US Authorities

@Dante

"Yes, he may be a cock but in no way does that excuse what the US Gov have done here."

I never said it did. They are two quite separate matters.

1.) The US has made a right royal fuck up of this affair.

2.) Kim Dotcom is a fat cocktard.

Different propositions using different words. Different.

Sorry, I'm getting into Compare The Market now...

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Re: US Authorities

Oh dear - another idiot. You do realise that George Orwell was a Socialist?

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IT Angle

National 'socialists' (was Re: US Authorities)

"Oh, and you do know that the 'zi' part of Nazi comes from 'sozialist', right?"

Whilst this is true, the inference that the NSDAP was leftist or socialist is incorrect, although commonly repeated, especially by American right-wing political commentators, to further their own agenda.

Although it's difficult to apply labels such as 'left-wing' or 'right-wing', in their current sense to parties that existed in the late 20s and early 30s in Germany, politically, the NSDAP was centrist to right-of-centre. Which is why they managed to collaborate, and got voted into power, with the help of the conservative DNVP (Deutsche Nationale Volkspartei, German National People's Party) and centrist (Centrums-Partei) party, a move that was opposed by the SPD (Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands, social democratic party) and KP (Kommunistische Partei, communist party). in fact, the votes of the KP were declared void, and the party dissolved after the 'Reichstagsbrand', in the wake of which the SA and SS arrested thousands of communists.

Furthermore, after the NSDAP's rise to power, thousands of non-jewish Germans were incarcerated in labour and concentration camps, and persecuted simply because they were members of the KP (Kommunistische Partei, communist party), the SPD (Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands, social democratic party), or members of socialist workers' organisations. A large number of those workers organisations, including the unions, and the "Naturfreunde" (a recreational organisation with historic links to the SPD and the unions), amongst countless others, were also outlawed and dismantled.

My grandfather on my father's side, for example, was sent to the Eastern front for being a member of the SPD.

So, to sum up, there's nothing 'socialist' about the NSDAP. Sorry for the long post, but this sort of thing really gets my goat, probably due to my family history.

IT angle icon, well, because there isn't one.

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C-N
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Re: US Authorities

The US gov has a tradition of choosing unsympathetic characters when attempting to expand judicial power. Downvoted, per your invitation.

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Re: National 'socialists' (was US Authorities)

Thanks for the detail clearing up. I didn't mean to confuse the issue with the last remark re where 'zi' comes from.

I think the core of what I meant is still valid ie that both the perceived right and left wing were in fact based on "us vs them" that was mostly based on ideology and rhetoric while in practice both sides were intent on tight state control exerted by the "us" dedicated to excluding / purging the "them". With respect to 'big brother' state control and vile extermination of perceived enemies there was little difference between fascist Germany/Italy and Soviet USSR (which I believe was also the gist of the OP)

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Re: Dotcom is an utter cock

You yanks really need some more skilled propaganda people. This is the same weak garbage you wheeled out against Assange. I guess we can expect some random sex offence allegation to materalise against Dotcom soon too. Pathetic.

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Re: Dotcom is an utter cock

It's nothing like the Assange sex allegation. My calling him a cock is because it is a fact. He used to cheat at Quake and Counter Strike and would DDoS anyone who called him out on it. He's a tool and I'm nothing to do with the US.

As far as I'm aware, using an aimbot is not an extraditable offence. It just makes you a cock.

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Re: National 'socialists' (was US Authorities)

"[...] both the perceived right and left wing were in fact based on "us vs them" that was mostly based on ideology and rhetoric while in practice both sides were intent on tight state control exerted by the "us" dedicated to excluding / purging the "them". With respect to 'big brother' state control and vile extermination of perceived enemies there was little difference between fascist Germany/Italy and Soviet USSR [...]"

I don't think anybody can argue with this, when you're comparing fascism with Stalinism... there were indeed parallels, as you rightly pointed out.

I wouldn't go quite as far as including all flavours of 'socialism' in general in this statement, though.

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Mushroom

Pull the other one, DOJ

It's got bells and whistles on

(Can we have a Bastille Day like icon, please?)

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Happy

Re: Pull the other one, DOJ

Plus a vote for torches & pitchforks icon too!

A Madame Guillotine icon for Bastille day :oD

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1A
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Who would you trust kim dotcom or the doj/us gov.

us gov has started 2 illegal wars based on lies. Seizes domains without any process. I know who i trust.

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Black Helicopters

I wouldn't trust either of them

But I'd go for drinks with KD...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I wouldn't trust either of them

I suggest locking them all in a room with an open bar....

Then loose the key...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I wouldn't trust either of them

Run.....Save yourself....The key is loose!

Seriously people is it really that hard to spell LOSE? The two words have entirely different meanings and are not interchangeable.

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This post has been deleted by a moderator

WTF?

Re: The Battle for Hearts and Minds is Won with Smarter Intelligence Feed and Novel Cyber Seed.*

Are you *still* here? Wow.

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Pint

Re: I wouldn't trust either of them

"But I'd go for drinks with KD..."

I'd seriously rather go for a beer and a chat with a highly educated lawyer than I would massage Kim's ego by socialising with him.

Plus, he'd eat all the peanuts.

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WTF?

Capitalising Every Word Is The Sign Of A Sick Mind

N/T

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Alien

Re: The Battle for Hearts and Minds is Won with Smarter Intelligence Feed and Novel Cyber Seed.*

Um OK

(Frantically looks around bus for an empty seat to move to)

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WTF?

Re: The Battle for Hearts and Minds is Won with Smarter Intelligence Feed and Novel Cyber Seed.*

How in the hell does a novelty account that just spouts nonsense get a gold badge?

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Re: The Battle for Hearts and Minds is Won with Smarter Intelligence Feed and Novel Cyber Seed.*

How in the hell does a novelty account that just spouts nonsense get a gold badge? ... CynicalPsycho Posted Tuesday 15th January 2013 12:08 GMT

Quite obviously, CynicalPsycho, because more than just nonsense is spouted ..... which is a novelty in this day and age?

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Headmaster

Re: The Battle for Hearts and Minds is Won with Smarter Intelligence Feed and Novel Cyber Seed.*

It's a bronze badge actually.

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Thumb Down

Re: us gov has started 2 illegal wars

Only two?

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Re: us gov has started 2 illegal wars

Or was it US media in order to sell more advertising?

After all they have a fine tradition dating back to the Spanish-American war.

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Devil

Whom to believe

The American DoJ or a 'Personality'?

Neither. They're both utterly corrupt and bereft of any redeeming qualities.

If the action wouldn't kill many innocent and hard-working normal citizens I would wish that the Yellowstone volcano let rip and take Hollywood from this world (and also that square mile in the heart of London where British laws do not apply*).

*Also the North Korean and Chinese leaders so it would have to be a fairly specific volcanic eruption.

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Re: Whom to believe

"Neither. They're both utterly corrupt and bereft of any redeeming qualities."

Yes, but one of them isn't stupid enough to make an allegation that could be disproved with a single email or print-out.

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Re: Whom to believe

It isn't that hard to fabricate an e-mail. You can fabricate the delivery path and the headers and even the content themselves. For that very reason, the football association only accept faxes or e-mailed scanned documents on the transfer deadline.

So unless Kim has something concrete like a signed document from them, then he's going to struggle to prove this case whether it is true or not.

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Holmes

Re: Whom to believe

"It isn't that hard to fabricate an e-mail. "

And it's why the DoJ probably sent the requests in writing, through lawyers.

"So unless Kim has something concrete like a signed document from them, then he's going to struggle to prove this case whether it is true or not."

- Which... you'd keep in hard-copy, given that it was a legal request and would have come through lawyers.

I can't believe that people seriously took Kim shooting his mouth off without any evidence backing him up at face value, and would rather believe that the DoJ ran around and removed all documented and electronic evidence and court records that they did so, and told the Judge never to breathe a word of it.

It's basically a case of weighing the probabilities of a known criminal and loud-mouth making a fictitious statement to cloud the issue versus the likelihood of the DoJ risking their entire case being destroyed and a bunch of people facing jail by putting a massive conspiracy into action.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

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Re: Whom to believe

"I can't believe that people seriously took Kim shooting his mouth off without any evidence backing him up at face value, and would rather believe that the DoJ ran around and removed all documented and electronic evidence and court records that they did so, and told the Judge never to breathe a word of it."

The funny thing is that there was a lot of simliar poo-poo-ing of DotCom's claims about John Banks and after various people had shown their colours the evidence emerged - making a lot of commentators look very silly.

He's shown a few times that he doesn't make outlandish claims about actual events without having the ace up his sleeve to back it.

That doesn't stop him being someone with an ego the size of a mid-size Jovian moon, but as has already been noted - the US DOJ has a history of going after the less sympathetic people when extending to extend their legal reach.

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Alien

Re: Whom to believe

It's basically a case of weighing the probabilities of a known criminal and loud-mouth making a fictitious statement to cloud the issue versus the likelihood of the DoJ risking their entire case being destroyed and a bunch of people facing jail by putting a massive conspiracy into action.

Yea, cause that never happens!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_scandal

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Re: Whom to believe

So the DoJ was behind Watergate? Are you sure it wasn't a bunch of dirty crook politicians?

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Wrong but right

Kim DotCom may be a fat cocktard, but IMO he's a fat cocktard who just happens to be in the right on this particular issue. I really wish my government would stop wasting money on this, confess their sins, and wash their hands of it.

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Megaphone

Funny how

The DOJ denied any direct communications.......and completely ignores that all the communications were through a third party. Hope the Judge picks up on that and reams the DOJ lawyers sideways.

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Anonymous Coward

vice versa

I read somewhere else that he was claiming that as part of cooperating with a warrant from the US they were asked not to alert the suspects in any way, which removing the files would do. So the DoJ not contacting him may well be correct as what was required was communication to remove the files, no contact means don't tamper with evidence, so by not contacting him they were effectively asking him to continue to retain the files

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Anonymous Coward

Reality Time

Mr. Kim is in for a reality check.

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Techdirt goes deeper into detail on what exactly happened in this case here, and it does seem like the DOJ i trying to weasel themselves out of a bad position.

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