back to article Nokia: Ship's now stable, all we need is passengers

Europe's biggest technology company Nokia caught a few people by surprise with its outlook yesterday. Nokia released far more information than a company typical discloses in a preview - an unusual amount. Ratings agencies may regard Nokia as "junk", and the fallen industry leader has flogged off and leased back its glittering HQ …

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"but the low-cost Android experience isn't that great"

Theres an understatement, everyone I know with a mid range android phone cannot stand the experience.

Nokia definitely appears to be moving in the right direction, just wish I had purchased some shares back in Q3 2012 when they were running at about US $1.70 a share, could have doubled my money in less than 6 months!!

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Re: Android didn't get to number one by people not standing it

The market doesn't "disagree" because that market had no choice. As Andrew points out, Android is where it is because it was the only competitor to the iPhone, and cheaper at that.

So I would hold off on making such claims about markets for another year yet, to give a low-cost Android/Nokia comparison a chance to prove itself out. One way or the other.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Android didn't get to number one by people not standing it

If Nokia make Android smartphones they become yet another Android vendor with nothing really that differentiates them from HTC, Samsung, LG, etc. At least with Windows Phone 8 they have some different OS to offer...

Note - I have a Lumia 920 upgraded from a Galaxy Nexus. The Lumia 920 has crashed once whilst my Galaxy wouldn't stop sounding the alarm until I pulled the battery out. YMMV.

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Re: Android didn't get to number one by people not standing it

- The market disagrees with your analysis

I agree based on sales numbers it does, but I do not agree based on solely the experience IF and it's a huge if the general public were to get a hands on experience with multiple other devices I think they would realize that there are better options out there than mid ranged android phones.

Speaking from our somewhat "power user" perspective its simply personal preference with high end devices as they all offer a good experience. The mass market really just goes with what their friends have and what the sales person in the store tells them is good for them.

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Re: Android didn't get to number one by people not standing it

So I would hold off on making such claims about markets for another year yet, to give a low-cost Android/Nokia comparison a chance to prove itself out. One way or the other

Unfortunately not sure if a year would be enough, Nokia is a little late to the party and it may not matter whether they can do something better or not.

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Re: Android didn't get to number one by people not standing it

"If Nokia make Android smartphones they become yet another Android vendor with nothing really that differentiates them from HTC, Samsung, LG, etc. At least with Windows Phone 8 they have some different OS to offer..."

They had that with MeeGo before they set fire to several years work and good will...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Android didn't get to number one by people not standing it

Android have 75% of the volume now, but it'll be interesting to see how that plays out by the end of 2013. Saying that, RIM could easily become the 3rd player in the market over MS.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Android didn't get to number one by people not standing it

Something being a "hit" and something being "all they can afford" are two different things.

If Android on the low/mid handsets was so good nobody would buy the expensive handsets. Yet the most popular handset is the S3 which is high end.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Android didn't get to number one by people not standing it

Welcome to The Register !

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Stop

Re: Android didn't get to number one by people not standing it

That's baloney...Android is flexible and powerful but as pointed out by Andrew, it needs quality hardware to run well. Ever used a HTC Wildfire or a Samsung Galaxy Ace? I have, and they are frankly shit. The people who buy these handsets buy them because, as Andrew again pointed out in his article, Android is a known, safe choice. They have heard friends/relatives/coworkers mention Android, the salesperson in the shop bleats on about Android so they buy the crappy Ace/Wildfire/etc because as far as they know it's the best thing they can get for £15 - £20 a month. If they had the money/wanted to spend the money they would buy an iPhone because that is the aspirational handset to have.

The people buying these handsets are not "very attached to Android indeed" either...anyone who actually knows much about Android and has a keen interest in tech is going to be in the more expensive end of the shop and wouldn't touch the low-end models with a barge pole.

Unfortunately people like you assume that because something is common and sells a lot then it must therefore be the item that the customer most wanted out of all the items available - don't let ownership figures confuse you. Look at all the shit underpowered laptops/netbooks that were sold a few years ago to families that picked them up with their weekly shop from Tescos...does that mean that they all very attached to Windows indeed? How about Ford Focuses (or is that Foci?)...do you think Focus drivers are very attached to Ford indeed?

The crying shame for Nokia is that their low-end WP devices run extremely well - little to no lag, reasonable screen res (well, better than the aforementioned Android handsets anyway) and would probably be a much better fit for these £15-£20/month consumers, who just want a reliable, smooth experience with a few games to play and a browser. However the sales people don't want to push WP and people aren't talking about WP so it will never reach middle mass at this rate.

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Re: Android didn't get to number one by people not standing it

@waspy

could not agree more thats exactly my point too.

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Re: Android didn't get to number one by people not standing it

@Waspy: Well I'm pretty keen on Android, but I wouldn't dream of paying even as much as £15-20 per month. That sounds like a lot of money to me. You can buy a perfectly good one for £100 on pay as you go (I bought an Orange San Francisco at this price two years ago; my wife recently bought a Huawei G300 at similar price; both are excellent), and for me about £10 top-up every six weeks or so gives plenty of data & texts. Spreading the handset cost over 2 years, that's about £11 spend per month. It's perfectly possible to do Android on the cheap and get very good results indeed.

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Re: Android didn't get to number one by people not standing it

> their low-end WP devices

There are no 'low-end' WP devices. There are cheap WP7 devices being sold because they are orphaned phones being remaindered at cost or below before they get dumped as unsaleable and unsupportable.

WP8 devices are mid- (620) to high-end (920). There are only so much that the price can be cut when the licence fee to MS must be paid.

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Bronze badge

Re: Android didn't get to number one by people not standing it

" At least with Windows Phone 8 they have some different OS to offer"

Yes, because Samsung, HTC, Huawei and Lenovo definitely don't make WP8 phones....

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Re: Android didn't get to number one by people not standing it

> buy an iPhone because that is the aspirational handset to have.

puking_in_rainbow_colors.jpg

You may be right though.

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Happy

Re: Android didn't get to number one by people not standing it

I had a Samsung Scrote and it was a nice phone. However I now have an Asha 201 and it is the best phone I have ever owned. The phone itself is great. It looks good but you can drop it on a concrete floor. Nokia Suite is great, I have 32GB on flash, the email, twitter, facebook works great - battery is one week. 2Mp Camera is adequate. Even the RDS radio is great. On giffgaff calls are free or 10p and my internet costs are 20p at most a day. People WILL drift back to phones like Asha to use AS PHONES! Oh, and it cost me £40 phone and £10 ssd.

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Re: Nokia Suite is great

Never thought I'd hear that - or agree with it. Apart from insisting on splitting my contact names into imaginary first & surnames, it's pretty solid.

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Mushroom

Re: Nokia sell in a quarter now what they used to sell in 2 weeks

Oh put a sock in it Eadon, you're getting really boring now.

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Stop

Re: Nokia sell in a quarter now what they used to sell in 2 weeks

The game has changed but you are also obviously a troll that needs to comment negatively on anything that is not android based. So Nokia sold off their engineering talent ehhh how come they have the best cell phone camera on the market (920) when they have no engineering talent then.....

I am not gonna try to defend Elop although I am sure there are worse CEO's than him. Nokia shot themselves in the foot a long time ago by pulling out of many markets and not following a sustainable pattern of production in certain countries that they originally had a great presence in.

No one is gonna pull themselves up on a Google skirt, even Samsung is going to take a step back from Google....The markets that Nokia sells symbian phones in eventually will change to something else whether that be windows, android, iOS or other. What I do know is that if I had the choice between a cheap windows phone and a cheap android phone I would not choose the android device because as even the author states the experience sucks on low-mid ranged android devices.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Nokia sell in a quarter now what they used to sell in 2 weeks

Elop pretty much made the only decisions it could have done; it needed to raise cash and sold as much as it could to do invest and return to profit. Elop, arguably, was paying for the decisions made by his predecessors who did a bit of a RIM.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Nokia sell in a quarter now what they used to sell in 2 weeks

Worst CEO? really?!

He kept them afloat when they were about to crash and burn like no other company had previously.

Yeah a terrible CEO....

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Re: Nokia sell in a quarter now what they used to sell in 2 weeks

If something sells, it doesn't mean it offers a great user experience. For example, a few years back a good number of people I know bought touch-screen feature phones (often resistive touch tech) in the wake of the original iPhone because they didn't want to spend more, yet many of them wish they'd stuck with a candy-bar phone with buttons.

C'mon Eadon, you're beginning to give Penguins a bad name. I'm not sure who you are trying to convert- those of us here who aren't already with Linux aren't going to be bought round to your view if your comments remain blunt.

Anyways, I'm late for the pub. Have a good weekend.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Nokia sell in a quarter now what they used to sell in 2 weeks

Symbian sales are down to phones like the Pureview 808 which is the best camera phone money can buy. But the phone part sucks.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Nokia sell in a quarter now what they used to sell in 2 weeks

So are MS funding HTC and Samsung too (two other Windows Phone OEMs).

HTC phones have been pushed and shown off by MS as much as Nokia.

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Re: Nokia sell in a quarter now what they used to sell in 2 weeks

I have the Pureview 808 and yes, the camera is amazing. Some recent shots I took astounded the printing lab and had them asking me if I was a pro. I'm not!

And the phone part doesn't suck.

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Re: Nokia sell in a quarter now what they used to sell in 2 weeks

> how come they have the best cell phone camera on the market (920)

Partly because it has a Carl Zeiss lens. The sensor seems to be from OmniVision Technologies, same supplier that HTC and Apple use. The camera is on a bunch of springs and I don't think that there is any real active optical stability beyond that.

While it may be a good phone camera, it can easily be outperformed by even a cheap compact.

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Re: Nokia sell in a quarter now what they used to sell in 2 weeks

Eadon,

You claim that Android is Nokia's only hope - yet HTC is proof that going with Android does not guarantee of success. Both Nokia and HTC have shown that going with Windows Phone was a good decision.

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Flame

Re: Nokia sell in a quarter now what they used to sell in 2 weeks

Elop has to rate as the worst CEO of tech in modern times.

No that would be several ex HP CEOs

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Eadon the Google mouthpiece...

Do they have you on retainer? You really should ask.

Most people don't give a crap what platform it is so long as they can talk/message/photo/browse and play a few games and listen/watch some media. So long as the platform performs adequately and is attractive to use (and WinMo does both at least as well as Droid), then that's a start. This is doubly so at the low/medium end, including the third world.

Only fanboys such as yourself who are so blinkered one way or another get so obsessed. Still, keep trying, maybe Google will send you a nice letter and a badge.

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Re: Android is Nokia only hope

That dockable ubuntu phone/pc might be a better bet

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Meh

My HTC Desire lasts 4 days on a single charge if I don't use it much. It'll last nearly a week if it's left completely alone. However I did have to replace the battery with a 3Ah one.

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My Galaxy Note (first gen) will last three-and-a-half days on a charge, though I'm sparing with the wifi. However, if it wasn't exactly the phone I wanted (handwriting was the killer app for me), I'd probably be looking at one of the new Win8 Nokias.

(Yes, I know I've publicly said on here that Android is Google spyware, and that I'd never buy another Nokia after the recent farcical management decisions. I still believe that Android is Google spyware, and have turned off the "Background Data" to reduce that, and don't wander around with wifi turned on unless I need it. However, the new Nokias are far better than I feared they would be, and I'm keeping an eye on what happens.)

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The lumen looks like a really nice built phone. Just such a shame its not on Android with its Huge App store and Google features.

Android market is ALL about having the best hardware and hardware is what Nokia do well.

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Anonymous Coward

Sorry, that should say 4G not 3G. There is a 4G S3 but it's a recent model which many people have only just received.

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Anonymous Coward

Android phones are beaten by the Nokia 920. There is no high end Android phone with QI charging, OIS camera and all the other features the 920 has.

You can nitpick about cpu cores, but WP8 doesn't need a hugely powerful CPU.

The Samsung S3 most people own in this country doesn't even do 3G.

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WTF?

minimum system reqs

You must be mistaken, AC. Comparing Android and Windows Phone 7/8 doesn't seem advantageous for Microsoft. E.g., compare 100MB/128MB recommended( at least) up to 2.2 RAM, 2GB storage for Android , and 256MB RAM for Windows Phone 7, 8gb disk storage.

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Meh

I quite like Android on high end kit but I don't really trust Google. In fact as time goes on I trust Google less and less. I have always had good experiences with MS and I would much more readily trust my data in their cloud.

The MS app store and WinPhone8 will only improve over the next 2 years - If Nokia stay with the program I can see a lot of people like myself using Windows Phone8 in the future.

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Alert

Keep the cash pump running!

The article mentions $1bn MS cash support and $1bn income from IP. If the good ship Nokia is leaking those amounts of cash, then the ship is not as stable as it looks. If someone turns off the cash pump, the ship might go down very fast. (Just tell the investors that there is a $1bn / year cash cow on board! And you though the golden cow was only a biblical analogy?)

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Terminator

Symbian...

Bring it back quietly I say & make the 808 available easily in the UK. Better that than sullying Nokia hardware with Android in my eyes. Or an N8 eqivalent with Pureview, that would sell too.

Its clear why Elop did what he did, cant help thinking though that even if the Symbian devs were still fired there was enough life left in Belle for another flagship device or two .

Maybe then when WP is actually up to speed with the competition, people can see a clear & simple upgrade(?) to the latest WP device, that does just what the S^3 devices can do right now and have been doing for the last 2 years!

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Devil

And if Nokia had competitive phones 14 months ago?

Instead of having to wait for Windows Phone 8?

By doubling down on the N9 and launching a Snapdragon N9 variant on Verizon USA? The Lumia 800 was made from that cancelled N9, it was almost ready to launch and Maemo Harmattan was already running on Snapdragon anyway.

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Yup

Each and every day with my N9 is proof enough. Power to Jolla.

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Anonymous Coward

For f&^%'s sake. The article wasn't about whether WP was better than Android. It was about the contents of Nokia's own outlook.

Which, incidentally, is hardly going to say 'Actually folks, the ship is about as stable as the Costa Concordia, nobody's buying the Lumia, and we can't decide whether to have Elop prosecuted or to sue his lobotomist', now, is it.

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Nokia is just another Palm

They're just taking a longer time to roll belly up.

I still have my orphan Palm III/V/Tx and my Nokia N800 sitting in a drawer somewhere. They've been superseded by my aged & shaky Motorola Droid and my Nexus 4 (whenever that actually gets here...)

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Meh

What's missing

Is fresh business class devices that people can be truly productive with. The E6 and E7 are both excellent devices in this regard but what are the current options? Cheapish Asha phones. Hello?

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Re: What's missing

Agreed, don't know how much longer my n900 will hold together. I still can't find a more capable device/system to replace it.

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Re: What's missing

Well, Ive some good news not yet generally known about.

There will be a business class handset within 18 months with the following spec.

It will be like the psion 5 same size and shape

with a modern high res screen

running android jelly bean so it looks like symbian on a Nokia communicator

a full size proper button properly spaced querty kboard

2 part hinged clamshell form factor

made and developed in S Africa.

Priced about the same as an Iphone. 5

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