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back to article British armed forces get first new pistol since World War II

The British regular forces are to receive their first new pistol since World War II, as the long-serving Browning 9mm sidearm is replaced by a new weapon from the well-known Austrian firm Glock. Out with the old, in with the new The new pistol is the Glock 17 Gen4, which fires the same NATO standard 9x19mm cartridge as its …

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buy your own desert eagle and pop heads like a melon

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@Zmodem

While the Desert Eagle may look cool, it is possibly the most useless working hand gun in existence!

Better late than never. The Glock is pretty much the AK of the handgun world - very reliable, very simple and thus very popular. Believe it or not, UK aircrew were still being issued Walther PPKs up until a few years ago. That weapon is even more out of date than the Browning.

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The Desert Eagle holds fewer rounds. Those in the services are trained to aim for the centre of mass, not the head. You're also going to have a hell of a time explaining why you can't use the 9mm NATO you've been issued.

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i know, buy pistols are made for close combat situations, if that happens, you do it well with a av`eeet u fux

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if your tip toeing around a building, you dont just want to give someone a limp, and have to waste half the magazine to kill them so you can move on

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Play a lot of COD, do we?

Bigger isn't always better.

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zmodem is right. if you are in a combat situation you need to hit hard, hit fast and move on. for that you generally want a big fucking gun.

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FAIL

"buy your own desert eagle and pop heads like a melon"

a) Handguns are illegal here. To stop kids being mown down by psychopaths. It works pretty well.

b) The Desert Eagle is a gas operated civilian target pistol. Pretty much the last thing you want from a back-up weapon is non-ruggidisation and questionable in-field reliability.

c) Where are you getting your spare ammunition from? I don't believe .50AE is NATO standard.

d) Why the hell would you aim for the head when you were pulling a back-up piece anyway?

e) Aiming at the head rather moots the point of a powerful round. You can kill just as well with a 9mm if you hit them there.

f) Dead is dead. You get no extra points for creating a mess; just a bunch of post-traumatic nightmares.

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FAIL

"zmodem is right."

No he's not.

"if you are in a combat situation you need to hit hard, hit fast and move on. for that you generally want a big fucking gun."

Yes: It's called a 5.56mm assault rifle. The Glock is a back-up piece. No soldier is going to use it or a stupid-ass IMI .50AE poser-piece instead of a real firearm as a matter of preference. Because pistols aren't for actual fighting.

"hit hard, hit fast "

On what planet is a gas-operated 2kg pistol with a 6 shot capacity firing heavy ammunition 'faster' to operate in CQB than a 9mm 650g Glock? And 'hard' is mooted by the fact that unlike the video games, actual people don't have 100 stamina points they can take before falling over.

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if you have to buy your own boots and hats, you might as well go all out and buy your own sidearm, from a irish smuggler

you have a smaller clip with the desert eagle, buy every shot is a kill shot, it might not be much use as a general sidearm for you normal soldier, the army should still have them to give to special OPs, they are better then carrying a shotgun in 2 hands

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Trollface

Deagle brand Deagle!

Every counterstriker is into it!

Me?

If I have to choose, H&K USP. Germans use it. Good enough.

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Hmm a desert eagle, let's see about half the ammo at three times the weight. I'll leave it to Poland's GROM units and carry something more practical instead.

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but the person with the shotgun just gets to sit their and do nothing when your pinned down and targets 500 yards away

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Thumb Down

"if you have to buy your own boots and hats, you might as well go all out and buy your own sidearm, from a irish smuggler"

Or 'terrorist' as we call them here. Seriously: What kind of jack-ass military do you think we run that lets squaddies wander around with illegally obtained and owned firearms that were never intended for anything other than target shooting and posing with?

"the army should still have them to give to special OPs, they are better then carrying a shotgun in 2 hands"

I hate to break this to you, but the only time you should use a pistol in one hand is when you throw it at someone if it jams. I mean it's great that you want to keep a hand free for picking your nose or whatever while firing a .50 Action Express rapidly in one hand, but I think that I'd rather stick to holding the weapon correctly and being able to hit the side of a barn.

And .50AE has hell of a lot less energy than a shotgun does anyway.

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Well

"when your pinned down and targets 500 yards away" ...you'll feel very silly for leaving your SA80 on the kitchen counter.

A pistol is for when you're caught with your trousers down at close range and, for whatever reason, you can't use your main weapon. .50 cal is for heavy machine guns (less important these days) and ridiculously long range rifles (hardly ever needed).

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the pistol would`nt jam if you never used it, village platoons, even in afgan and iraq, the shotgun goes in first, after the village has been cleared, the shotgun serves no use and nor does the person who is carrying it

the desert eagle is a sidearm, leaving all to carry a proper gun when a single kill shot is not needed

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Joke

The CTs armed forces should also look into using bunny hopping to get to unreachable locations and gain superior speed over the Ts other combatants..

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@Flawless101

They should also be taught to fire a rocket at their feet while in mid jump will boost their jump considerably, thus allowing them to reach even more inaccessible locations.

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Meh

"the pistol would`nt jam if you never used it"

Oh, so that's the key to reliability: If one carries a fragile, civilian, over-complicated piece of chrome-plated trash around in a desert long enough without using it, it'll definitely work when you really, really, really need it to.

Sweet. If only we'd have thought of doing that with the IW/LSW.

"the desert eagle is a sidearm"

...That weighs 2kg unloaded. I can hear the PBIs squealing with glee at the prospect of carrying more useless, heavy, unreliable sh!t already!

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Facepalm

Yes, yes you do want to leave him with a limp.

A live prisoner is a burden on his colleagues who then need to medivac him out.

Or alternatively can be taken as POW and questioned, potentially providing a source of humint if you can entice him to volunteer more than the personal details the Geneva Convention requires.

War is about wounding, not killing (unless you absolutely have to). Once he ceases to be a threat, your job is done, and "being alive" does not necessarily constitute a threat.

Plus, as others have more than adequately mentioned, getting shot hurts. You may be able to carry on running in CoD, taking 4/5 shots to die from a "wimpy" 9mm, but in real life your average solider will be rolling around on the floor shouting "ow fuckity ow. You shot me!" whilst painting the decor a damp shade of claret.

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FAIL

Desert Eagle? Are you kidding?

Why??? Seriously, it's a silly, silly gun. For a start its HUGE, it's heavy, its clumsy, it has terrible capacity, and it has all the concealability of a watermelon.

I've been shooting since I was 18 and I've seen quite a few people with Desert Eagles, and whereas I hate the people who try to disparagingly compare weapons with genitalia, the Desert Eagle comes close. it's a gun favored by insecure man children desperately trying to overcompensate for something.

It's the trophy wife, combover, cheap sports car, midlife crisis of handguns . It's usually in the hands of skinny short guys trying to prove they are "real men" and people who do 99% of their shooting on an XBOX.

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its only chrome in the movies, 2kg is nothing, if you dont need 5kg in ammo, only the 1kg and a maximum of 10 clips for a maybe 4 days roll

every gun jams

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Paris Hilton

First slug in the bad guy; second slug in the Moon.

'Nuff said.

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Coat

Desert Eagles ....

Love the comments about the IMI Desert Eagle. So lets get some facts straight.

The Dersert Eagle was originally produced in two calibres, .357 magnum for armed forces and the police and .44 magnum for fire arms enthusiasts.

The 50cal Desert Eagle was originally produced ONLY for the US collectors/firearms-nut market. I'm not sure it was ever officially sold else where.

The .357 magnum model proved to have too recoil for combat situations (where a proper firing stance may not be possible) and so proved to be unpopular with the troops. As a result it was dropped and replaced with the IMI Jericho, which comes with two barrels, tow magazines, etc to be able to use one of two rounds. The classic 9x19mm and the harder hitting, but less rounds in the magazine 10mm magnum.

Incidentally, I know from a US based friend and gun nut that the IMI Jericho is actually sold in the US as the Desert Eagle - I know so as we got into an argument as he claimed he had a 9mm Eagle - he sent me photos and I sent back reference photos.

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I bleive that US army used to allow privatly owned wepons

Patton was famous for it and certainly Mad Jack Churchils longbow and broad sword where not oficial issue wepons

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Re: Desert Eagles ....

you dont care for stances, if you kick open a door, aim and shoot

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"2kg is nothing, if you dont need 5kg in ammo, only the 1kg and a maximum of 10 clips for a maybe 4 days roll"

Clearly you have never carried 3 bags of sugar around a desert for 4 days.

"every gun jams"

Every girlfriend cheats, but I don't see that as a good reason to date the one who does it four times a day.

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Re: Desert Eagles ....

"you dont care for stances, if you kick open a door then hop around on one leg with either a broken ankle or a foot embedded in an interior door while someone with an AK pops a dozen rounds into the fool ass of anyone who learned FIBUA by watching 'Navy SEALS'"

Fixed that for you. So you now want to use your back-up weapon for leading the clearing of a house. Personally, I'd get some other bastard to clear it using the proper tools* while I found a real weapon.

*ie grenades. Lots of them.

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Stop

You honestly think

That you could hit something with a pistol at 500 yards? Shotguns like pistols are close combat weapons. At longer range you need a rifle. Even modern assault rifles aren't designed for much beyond 500 meters.

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FAIL

Re: Desert Eagles ....

ITT: Everything you need to know about weaponry you can learn from counterstrike

just hope the Terr's don't AWP you eh?

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Stop

Re: Desert Eagles ....

@Zmodem

Seriously, where did you get all this rubbish from?!

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Re: You honestly think

Yep, the range issue turned out to be quite a problem for the yanks in Afghanistan as the shiny M4 replacement for the venerable M16s also dropped max range from 800m to 600m. Unfortunately the rifle fire coming in from the other side tended to outrange it significantly.

On the other hand, the various AK designs tend to be accurate out to only 350-400m so the M4 is pretty good in its weight class.

Still better than a pistol, expensive toy or not - your Desert Eagle has an effective range of around 50m

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Pint

Re: You honestly think

"Yep, the range issue turned out to be quite a problem for the yanks in Afghanistan as the shiny M4 replacement for the venerable M16s..."

I'd be very impressed if an individual rifleman could tag a target at 800m with an iron sighted M-16! I think the M-4 is rated at 400m or less, isn't it? Certainly I've never known Americans to train at 500m+ with them. The L85A1 used to be rated to 400m (w/ SUSAT) for individual fire.

But yeah: Conflicts for the last 50 years have been pretty short-ranged affairs, and that - coupled with mechanisation - brought down the perceived need for a long-range clout. Then we get something that goes against the grain and designated marksmen and sniper weapons at squad level are all the rage.

"Still better than a pistol, expensive toy or not - your Desert Eagle has an effective range of around 50m"

To be fair, I expect they're better ranged than that, given that long-range target shooting is what they are designed for.

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Re: You honestly think

Next you will suggest the armed forces should take out a knife when running...

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Anonymous Coward

The point is not always to kill

One of the reasons the SA80 has 5.56mm and not the 7.xxmm round is that the 5.56 is more likely to wound and the 7.xx is more likely to kil.....

Whats the point you say...why don't you kill....

Well in military tactics if a soldier is dead - no one is going to try and recover them, but if they are wounded, two maybe three of the opposition (sometimes more) will be busy treating evacuating etc and will be out of the fire fight!

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Happy

Re: Desert Eagle? Are you kidding?

"...... it's a gun favored by insecure man children desperately trying to overcompensate for something......" On visits to ranges in the US it used to be almost certain you would find someone swaggering around with one. Nearly every bloke in the place would want to shoot it once, just for the experience, but none but said "compensators" would want to shoot it again. Amusingly, I did note that most women at the range also wanted to shoot "a big one" just as much as the average guy.....

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Re: @Zmodem

what about k100/gp6? http://youtu.be/AxHIKfyFuDU

reliability supposedly in a range of 1mil rounds

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Facepalm

@Zmodem. going for a record?

Seriously, you are getting so many downvotes it is not funny.

>buy every shot is a kill shot

A "kill shot" needs to hit first before it can think about killing anything. Duh!

Two things matter here: accuracy and number of rounds. Pistols will struggle with the first, which is why they are backup weapons (on which you don't want to waste 2 kg of weight allowance).

I'd much rather go with a gun without too much recoil, if I were in combat. Sure, on a range, you can take the appropriate stance and pause between shots. In combat, you want your barrel to remain roughly pointed at the target between shots, not flying around because you just had to shoot an elephant gun at a mosquito.

Second, the ammo volume. .50 rounds are heavy so you won't carry too many. Doesn't give you much chance at wild shots/suppressive fire/etc... Nope, you are stuck with manly aimed fire, using a pistol. Clever.

Just offhand, how many rounds fired do you think it takes an army unit to kill/incapacitate an enemy in combat, on average? Hundreds, if not thousands, except when snipers are involved. Big reason for 5.56, instead of 7.62.

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Re: The point is not always to kill

I think the only place I've seen a Desert Eagle is coming out of Robocop's leg- the film's prop department stuck some extra metal on the end and thought it would appeal to teenage lads and Zmodem. The film, like the rest of the 1980s Verhoven classics, is being remade this year- wonder what they'll give Cyborg Murphy this time?

And Arnie's laser sight in The Terminator required a cable from the sight to a battery on his belt; again just a prop.

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@Zmodem

So when and where did you serve in Iraq or Afghanistan? How many tours did you do?

Just interested in your wealth of experience of combat situations.

Kind of intrigued about these 500 yard gun battles with over-powered handguns and shotguns. Did you not mean 50 yards?

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FAIL

"......every shot is a kill shot....." Go back to Counter Strike. In the real World, shot placement is much more of an issue, and the weapon you can bring quickly to bear with the least pre-aim fiddling (such as cocking the slide or thumbing back the hammer or disengaging any safeties) will usually win the argument, especially if you can bring it back to bear for a second shot quickly. In that respect the Glock is excellent, but it is lighter than the SIG and Hi-Power so may suffer more from recoil. With the Desert Eagle your second shot is going to be long after the Glock shooter has put four or five rounds in you.

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Re: You honestly think

Why would you need a knife when if you have done things properly you will have had the Sarn't Major order "fixed-bayonets" before you start running?

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"2kg is nothing"

Thus speaks the person who has never had to carry a ruck.

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Re: You honestly think

And remember the bomb kit for the fast defuse...

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Re: ...someone swaggering...

Even the other shooters think the guy with IMI's chrome paperweight is an idiot.

Personally, have never bothered to even pick one up.

I have, however, had my shooting position peppered with cases from a DE in .50AE with a bad extractor. THAT was sufficiently annoying that I cut my range time short that day, and have never since agreed to share a shooting line with anyone carrying one of those chrome bricks.

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Re: "2kg is nothing"

i do kung fu with 40kg, 60kg is a boring benchpress half hour

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Re: @Zmodem

"So when and where did you serve in Iraq or Afghanistan? How many tours did you do?"

im no army man, the desert eagle was made in the 90s, when shotguns weight 8kg, a reinvented desert eagle with todays metals, would server more use with 3 people having them with 10 clips each, then 1 person with a shotgun

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Re: @Zmodem

By your arguments of shot weight/calibre being better than magazine capacity we should give all our soldiers sawn-off 12 bores firing deer shot...

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Who do you remind me of...?

Ah yes. Spence from Ronin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=w1MkjmbdHUM#t=71s

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Re: @Zmodem. going for a record?

@Zmodem. going for a record?

a kil shot kills in 1, a sidearm is for close combat, nothing much else, a eagle has a better range then a 12 yard shotgun

Just offhand, how many rounds fired do you think it takes an army unit to kill/incapacitate an enemy in combat, on average?

5. unless your american with 6000 dead troops.

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