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back to article Second Higgs possibility pops up in CERN data

Isn’t that just typical? Science waits half a century for a Higgs boson, and when it arrives, just like a bus, a second one is right behind. That’s the tantalising prospect raised by the most recent release of data from the Large Hadron Collider scientists, who had barely finished celebrating after confirming that they’d spotted …

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Goddam!!

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Goddam!!

CERN has identified a zombie Higgs Boson!!

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Re: Goddam!!

@James Micallef: Exactly my thought! But don't worry, not much of Higgs Boson's brain is left. Now it's just an animal.

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Joke

Amazing!

So CERN finally grew a pair.

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Joke

Re: Amazing!

Erm, wrong gender, they are twin peaks after all...

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Nearly there

Only 40 more to find.

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Facepalm

Re: Nearly there

Yes, but what was the question?

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Mushroom

Re: Nearly there

Might be the case.

I personaly don't elieve we will fully know the higgs boson until we can properly define gravity and by that explain why it is weaker than it is.

For all we know there are many more, some could be created into another universe(s), we just don't know and with that you may well get your 40 or 42, I'm going to pick 13 as this is becomming a lottery :).

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Trollface

Re: explain why [gravity] is weaker than it is

I think you need to explain why your comment is less understandable than it is.

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Re: Nearly there

The only problem being that if we find the answer, it will be replaced by something even more inexplicable....or given that potentially 2 particles have been "found", maybe that is already the case.

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El Reg's comment section has gone down hill.

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Goddam right it has :/

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Pint

"El Reg's comment section has gone down hill."

After midnight, may explain it all.

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Joke

And this is new how?

I doubt we've ever been ON the hill to begin with!

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Headmaster

Technically, it is _always_ after midnight...

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uphill?

I'd have said comment section was up something, but not a hill!

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Happy

In my time...

It was always uphill, both ways!

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Angel

"Technically, it is _always_ after midnight"

If it's always after midnight, when can i feed these gremlins?

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Joke

So we're dealing with a pantheon then.

It seems its not just a one true 'god' particle after all.

(Yes, yes, I know its not a god particle really).

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Funny you should mention 'pantheon'

LHC : a temple dedicated to an unknown god (or two or however many show up)

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Devil

Re: Funny you should mention 'pantheon'

Ooooo there is the heavenly host, in the Old Testament's book of Genius's - so that means there is a lot of gods there.

There are the 5000 semi, demi and gods in the bardo states.

Everyone one of use that the word of god has been given too, is a god, so about 3 billion people have a giddymans bible (or Mao's little red book will do - thus making it about 4 billion people).

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm

Ooooooo that is an awful lot of god particles.

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Re: Funny you should mention 'pantheon'

They are all small gods waiting for people to believe in them.

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Happy

Re: Funny you should mention 'pantheon'

In the beginning was the word, and the word was "Hey, ... you!!"

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Re: So we're dealing with a pantheon then.

There are lots of gods, they are just rolled up too small to see.

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Big Brother

Re: So we're dealing with a pantheon then.

Seems like we must be waiting on the third one - Father, So,n and Holy Ghost, etc.

Where's the priest icon or other icon with religious over/undertones? Guess big brother will have to do...

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Go

Pretty soon bosons are going to be like toasters.....

Man declares particle God, man builds huge temple to find God, man finds God, Man complains that there is to much God!

We need a "deep thought" icon!

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Re: Pretty soon bosons are going to be like toasters.....

Marketing geek at publisher calls particle 'god'. Scientists spend next 30 years trying to loose the name.

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Headmaster

Scientists spend next 30 years trying to LOSE the name.

Sigh.

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Happy

Re: Scientists spend next 30 years trying to LOSE the name.

But, to his credit - if it's loose, it'll fall off any moment...

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Anonymous Coward

It is just statistical error

CMS does not see a difference between the masses. This peak is a single Higgs.

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Boffin

KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON INCREASING STANDARD DEVIATIONS (away from the null hypothesis)

> This peak is a single Higgs.

Most quite likely on a likelihood scale of 0..1

After discussion plots, Tommaso Dorigo of the CMS collaboration has this to say:

So, to answer the question one idea is of course that some miscalibration systematics are affecting either or both mass measurements in ATLAS. However, I am sure this has been beaten down to death by the experimenters before making public the present results.

Another idea is that the gamma-gamma signal contains some unexpected background which somehow shifts the best-fit mass to higher values, also contributing to the anomalously high signal rate. However, this also does not hold much water - if you look at the various mass histograms produced by ATLAS (there is a bunch here) you do not see anything striking as suspicious in the background distributions.

Then there is the possibility of a statistical fluctuation. I think this is the most likely explanation, and I am willing to bet $100 with as many as five takers that the two measurements will be reconciled with each other once more statistics is added, and that no observation of a double state will be made. This however might take three years to sort out, given the impending shutdown of the LHC.

Finally, you might instead want to believe that we are indeed looking at the first hint of new physics -Supersymmetry or some other model producing multiple Higgs-like particles. Very exciting, but I just do not buy that.

Time will tell! So if you have some extra cash to throw away consider taking the bet...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: It is just statistical error

Atlas needs to stop showing off. It's only there to verify CMS data.

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Re: KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON INCREASING STANDARD DEVIATIONS (away from the null hypothesis)

A detailed discussion of why there is really only one Higgs boson here:

http://profmattstrassler.com/2012/12/17/two-higgs-bosons-no-evidence-for-that/

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Anonymous Coward

The failed god hypothesis takes another whack

That's gotta hurt.

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Twin peaks?

Damn fine cherry pie!

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Coat

Re: Twin peaks?

Bob did it.

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Angel

Re: Twin peaks?

For the slack?

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Boffin

Time out a second...

Did they just say a particle that gives *mass* to substances decays into massless photons? I'm not a scientist and my understanding of stuff like this is hazy at best but shouldn't this be impossible? oO

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SJB

Re: Time out a second...

I think you've answered your own question there...

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Re: Time out a second...

Gives mass != has mass

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Boffin

Re: Time out a second...

E=mc^2.

You need two photons to make sure that energy and impulse conservation are observed at all times (one photon cannot freely choose both).

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Big Brother

Re: Time out a second...

The particle has rest mass, yes. 140 GeV/c², was it?

In this universe, any operation conserves the quantity mass energy, not the quantity rest mass. Transformations between energy and rest mass are scaled according E=mc²

So you can have the rest mass of 140 GeV/c² going away as long as the 0-rest-mass-photons coming out of your operations have a total energy of 140 GeV/c²

This is how matter/antimatter annihilation can happen.

Big Brother because Big Mass.

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It's Mrs Higgs Boson.

Look out at double the mass for the Higgs Boson's mother in law.

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As exciting as this is for supporters of the standard model.

Am I the only just a little disappointed that the LHC didn't open a portal to the underworld?

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Coat

Re: As exciting as this is for supporters of the standard model.

Nope, just that we haven't got a portal to Xen.

Or so they'd have us believe.....

Mine's the one with the HEV suit batteries in it.

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Happy

Re: As exciting as this is for supporters of the standard model.

Don't be too down, they've only cranked the thing up to halfway.

There will be plenty of 'MAXIMUM POWER IGOR!' opportunities next year after the strip-down & refurb.

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Go

Re: As exciting as this is for supporters of the standard model.

No, it just turned a bunch of maintenance engineers into cannibalistic zombies.

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Mushroom

Re: As exciting as this is for supporters of the standard model.

They have until friday to destroy the world

21-12-12 .......

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Joke

Has the LHC developed a squint?

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