back to article England and Germany square off for FIFA goal line tech prize

Little known football teams Sanfrecce Hiroshima and Auckland City made history on Thursday after their Club World Cup match was the first ever official fixture to feature goal line technology. The game saw the use of GoalRef, a radio-based system developed by the Fraunhofer Institute for Integrated Circuits which works by …

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Headmaster

Errata

The decision to introduce the technology comes a whole two 46 years after an infamous disallowed goal by England’s Frank Lampard Geoff Hurst against Germany in the last '66 World Cup. Despite not landing fully across the line it was mysteriously not spotted by either linesman or and referee – prompting gratuitous “we was robbed” "wir wurden bestohlen" outbursts from the English German diaspora all over the world.

there... fixed that for you.

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LPF

Re: Errata

Dream on Thorsten, just accpet it , we stuffed you :D

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Re: Errata

"stuffed"? Such a harsh word. Rather applies to Munich, 2001, I'd say. (or Oxford '09...)

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Happy

Re: Germany vs England

From the outside looking in, it's very easy to see who's the "boss" here.

For England, every game vs Germany is a huge rivalry, high-stakes, must-win game with the nation's pride and honur at stake.

For Germany, it's just another game against a regular opponent, which they most likely will win, business as usual.

England football fans are like the annoying small dogs being aggressive and making lots of noise, and sure, their team will occasionally win a scrap, but they are nowhere when the big dogs are playing

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Ze Germans vill do course haf a more serious and superior machine for ze goal line checking.

It will haf a little dial vid numbers 1-10 called a bias svitch.

It vill says 'to be turned to 10 ven vee play ze Englanders to eliminate ze chance of England goal'

It vill be a no nonsense very serious device jawohl.

This will counter our design which will play 'we won the war, we won the war' every time England score.

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Trollface

I'm torn, I really am

As a youth football coach, I could do with it making offside decisions as well, some of the decisions we get are shocking.

And as a Chelsea fan of 43 years, who firmly believes Fat Frank is the finest midfielder that the permiership has ever seen, it would have been nice to see Frank get the credit for what was a pretty decent and dead cert goal.

But then, as a Northern Irishman as well, who went multi-orgasmic when Sir David Healy scored a blinder against England seeing us win 1-0 in front of the world's finest crowd at Belfast's Windsor Park, I would seriously miss the commentator, pundit, and media whinging were goal-line tech to ensure that England couldn't fall foul of such a goal-line incident again.

England feeling unjust is a highlight of football - perhaps even a highlight of life itself, for example the time I was chased fully half a mile down the road from a pub in Richmond by a bunch of neanderthals throwing glasses, ashtrays, bottles etc at me, simply 'cos I had the cheek to stand up and roar my approval after the legend that is Gianfranco Zola scored the only goal as Italy beat England 1-0 at Wembley leaving the home side sweating on qualification for the 1998 world cup.

A tricky decision for the noodle-man, but on balance, yes, I hope either system gets adopted. Let it be brilliant, except for one high profile mistake that sees England dumped out of a world cup, so I can enjoy all the crying one more time.

Harsh? I don't think so : It's the fact that England fully expects - nay, thinks it has a divine right - to win everything that makes it so much more enjoyable when they win nothing

(and here endeth "I like noodles" chances of getting another upvote ever again)

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I'm torn, I really am

As a youth football coach, I could do with it making offside decisions as well, some of the decisions we get are shocking.

As a parent who watched my 11 year-old son playing for a team last year then wish it coudl also be used in making decisions on when to award a throw-in/corner/goalkick ... some of the "coaches" who acted as linesmen seemed to be under the impression that they were playing rugby (football) so flagged when the ball touched the inside of the line rather than when it fully crossed the outside of it which is the rule in (association) football!

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Re: I'm torn, I really am

I'm not a Chelsea or Man U fan but Paul Scholes was the best midfield player in England by a golden mile.

Incidentally, i'm old enough to have seen Lampard senior playing and he was a great player as well.

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Anonymous Coward

Fat Frank

Takes enough credit as it is, I hear he's recently taken all the credit for all the Higgs Boson work at CERN and has already indicated he will be taking credit for winning next years Tour de France.

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Re: I'm torn, I really am

@bill 36. Scholes excellent, but can't agree he was better than Fat Frank. But you're bang on the money about Frank Senior though, though he had some serious competition in the "great player" rankings in those days, with the likes of Stan Bowles, Charlie George, Eddie Gray etc.

@AC. linesman standards, I don't doubt it. I carry the flag on our side of the pitch and the number of opposition players that scream for a throw-in when the ball's on the line is riduculous, so I assume they've never been told. Then again, some coaches seem to think it's all about winning, whereas my own and my club's view is that it's all about teaching kids to play football so that when it comes to the future, they'll win through ability and teamwork and not because they've a biased linesman (or ref!)

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Devil

Re: Fat Frank

Re taking undue credit, I think you'll find your man is John "I got myself kitted out and went to lift the trophy that my team-mates had won while I sat and watched" Terry

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Re: I'm torn, I really am

Personally, I really like the England football team and have been mightily frustrated by their lack of form in major tournaments.

However, I must now do this in response to the comment from I like noodles:

Away in a-a manger

No-o crib for a bed

The-e little Lord Jesus

Laid down His sweet head.

The stars in the-e bright sky looked down where HEALY, HEALY, HEALY!

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Hawkeye works well in cricket and tennis because there is a clear view of the ball from most angles at any time ... perhaps one or two fo the several cameras may occasionally be blocked by a player but the others will have a clear view of the ball abd be able to track it. However this is not the case in football ... what happens in a goal mouth scramble after a corner with half a dozen players lunging for the ball which the goal keeper dives on an claim he grabbed before the ball crossed the line. I think Hawkeye will solve all the cases where TV replays can show that a goal should have been given but may still leave contenious decisions unsolved.

As for the magnetic field system ... wait till Adidas or Nike bring out their new goalie equipemnt with "embedded magnets" (of course, these will only be intended for their theraupeiutic effects on muscles!)

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Re: deshepherd

Sir,

I quote "However this is not the case in football ... what happens in a goal mouth scramble after a corner with half a dozen players lunging for the ball which the goal keeper dives on an claim he grabbed before the ball crossed the line." and I do not understand what part of that situation has to do with either Hawk-Eye or Magnetic Field Football...

Whether the goalie grabbed the ball or not before it crosses the line does not actually form any part of "a goal was scored". A ball can be shot so hard that goalie and ball end up in the net. It still is a goal (and a vomitting goalie, most likely).

Regards,

Guus

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Hawkeye is designed to work in 2-D, calculating where a ball hit the ground. Football score requires 3-D view since the ball can enter at mid-height and get cleared out. Has it been updated to take account of this? Also, requiring line-of-sight might be an issue.

Magnetic field thingy should work whatever is in the way ( but how soon before goalkeepers start hiding field jammers in their caps? Or hacker fans finding a way to signal 'GOAL' to the referee at will?)

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Big Brother

Hawkey 2D?

Hawkeye is most definitely 3D. Anyone watching the recent AUS-SAF test in Perth would understand the importance of bounce. Many appeals were disallowed because the ball was going over the stumps when the bowlers were sure it was hitting.

Not that I think Hawkeye is fallible. It's good, but it still has to make a decision when it's essentially 50/50.

And don't think the controversy will go away. It will change from "was the goal over the line?" to "Hawkey/Magnetic thingy was wrong?" or "why did/didn't the umpire consult the technology?" or "why is it taking so long?" or "why isn't the camera in the right place?".

Controversy is what the sport thrives on.

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Angel

I dont understand why its taken so long to come into football, its not like there isnt the money.

I do wonder though how long it is until it goes against us, a last min goal against england in the semi finals and we'll try and blame the equipment like people say the lie detector is broke on Jeremy Kyle.

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Why it took so long

Is because of Sepp Blatter and his crony Michel Platini.

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Bronze badge

There isn't the money in the game, at grass roots level. FIFA wanted to keep the actual playing of the sport consistent regardless of what level was being played. Introducing tech where it is affordable starts to creep toward having different rules at different levels.

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@werdsmith

"There isn't the money in the game, at grass roots level. FIFA wanted to keep the actual playing of the sport consistent regardless of what level was being played."

As an outsider to the wonders of the internal politics of FIFA, it would seem that what theywant to do is whatever a tiny, select group of aging has-beens grew up with and/or think is "proper". IMO of course. I reckon there's also a big difference between competitive international games and your average Sunday league knock-about - there is a similar usage in tennis at the various levels of the sport, and increasingly cricket, and that doesn't seem to have ruined it at either extreme (IMO again).

"Introducing tech where it is affordable starts to creep toward having different rules at different levels."

The playing rules are the same at any level, regardless of the technology - it's just the degree of assistance that the officials and players can turn to that is different. Whether you approve of the tech is, of course, absolutely up to you - but there is no requirement for change in the core regulations one way or the other. It might seem like it's creeping towards a change in the rules to some, fair enough, but that's not really born out by experience in the sports where such technology is used.

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Facepalm

At the risk of sounding simple-minded...

...why can't football take a lesson from tennis?

All it needs is two officials (let's call them line-judges), stationed permanently at the corners, whose ONLY job is to wave a flag when the ball crosses the line. Perhaps four - one at each corner.

Be a sight more useful than those two "fifth officials" which UEFA have imposed upon us for European matches, who, as far as I can see, seem to have NO influence or effect on the game at all.

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Take the arbitrary decisions out of football...

what are we supposed to get excited over anymore? Let's face it, we still remember the Frank Lampard or Geoff Hurst goals long after everything else is forgotten. What should replace the memories? There are not enough Maradonas around (hand of god, goal of the century, ...) to keep everyone entertained.

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I'd prefer if they just brought in clock stopping to stamp out time-wasting and the joke that is injury time

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the same level of technical assistence to the officials at all levels argument ...

REALLY PISSES ME OFF.

I was never any good at football , and was almost as bad at my chosen sport of tennis.

I played in a few tennis clubs, and they never had people watching every line on all matches. Only would the club final have a few line judges, and certainly not as many as an average match at Wimbledon. Most of the judgements relied on honesty of the players . Whereas if I'd played at Wimbledon, I'd have had lots of line judges.

The idea that a game with a few dozen people watching will ever be as important as one with millions of spectators has got to be a really stupid assessment of importance, and the sooner the stupid old codgers Platini and Blatter retire , the better it will be.

Give us the technology ! Replay refs , hawk-eye , you name it. The LOT please.

Then the bad refereeing decisions in the more WATCHED and more IMPORTANT matches would be much rarer. At the bottom level , it'll still be a pile of shite, but the truth is the standard of play is even shite-ier .

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Me Too

I would also like to be able to send "messages" to the referees watch!

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