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back to article Apple: 27-inch iMac won't ship until next year

Apple's long-delayed 27-inch iMac is now scheduled to ship to US customers sometime next month, according to an updated page on the company's stateside online store. 27-inch iMac listings on Apple's US and UK online stores That's the US store on top, the UK store below The UK store, on the other hand, still lists the " …

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Ahh! Apple - because money doesn't just burn itself you know

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JDX
Gold badge

For those who value aesthetics, they ARE pretty lovely... it's like saying everyone should buy Ford rather than BMW.

Anyway are there any like-for-like non-Apple equivalents? What is there for the image-conscious Windows user who doesn't want to spend £399 on a grey box?

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Anonymous Coward

@JDX

Whilst you sit and look at your computer many of us actually use them.

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JDX
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Re: @JDX

And some of us open the curtains and go outside our bedrooms every now and then.

Could you BE more of a stereotypical nerd?

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Trollface

"...it's like saying everyone should buy Ford rather than BMW."

So... you're saying it's a valid argument, then?

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Trollface

RE "Anyway are there any like-for-like non-Apple equivalents?"

Well if you are interested in both aesthetics, punch and good value for money you can build one yourself (there are some very well designed "bespoke" cases out there if you know where to look, ours is in one of Lian Li's whole body aluminium offerings) and you can definitely obtain and install components at least as good or better for anything up to forty percent cheaper than Apple charge (often for exactly the same brand and quality). Then you simply install the os of your choice, whether it's Windows, Linux (we have both on dual boot) or OSX. Oh, hang on a moment, Cupertino won't allow that will they? You guys actually have to hack the os in order to install it, even if it is a wholly genuine paid for version. Pity that, oh well, carry on paying for your "designer hardware".

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Anonymous Coward

Re: @JDX

I use my Mac all day every (work) day and given the choice of an ugly box or a pretty one... well I'll take the pretty one with all the accessories (webcam, speakers etc. built in, runs near silent...

Why don't we go slag off people for buying B&O hifi equipment after all you can get get cheaper - or how about the people who CHOOSE to pay £120 for a pair of jeans when you get get a pair for £10. Live and let live - if it's their cash let them spend it how they like.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: @JDX

OK, I'm getting rather tired of this. Hereby the brick you deserve.

"because money doesn't just burn itself you know"

"many of us actually use them"

Oh really? How do you manage between all those updates and the crippling cost of software? I rather pay once, have a good machine for 4..5 years or so with affordable software which I am licensed to use on all machines I can log into than bleed cash through the backdoor on let's-hope-it-works-this-time OS upgrades, mucho need for support (nicely handed off to forums) and a lack of usability that a first year UI design student would be ashamed to hand in as first project - yet still have a system that is commercially supported and sports a UI that even a non-nerd has no problem getting used to because making things easy (no, not simple) is a deliberate feature of the platform.

Oh, and the advantage of telling friends to get a Mac is that you can have normal conversations when you meet friends instead of having to dig them out of whatever problems the PC has created. Heck, you may even NOT talk about computers. I know, I know, hard to believe..

How do I know? Because I made that switch only 2 years ago, and originally purely for research. I wasn't planning on changing to OSX but I needed to be conversant with it as it was the only gap in all the versions of commercially supported platforms and versions of Unix I normally use. I gave myself a month to get used to OSX. Within 2 weeks I knew just how much time I was saving, within a month everything Windows had gone, with every software I was using on Windows replaced by an usually better and cheaper OSX equivalent. I've got MacPorts to give me all the things I need in Unix, and the only vestiges of the Windows are some Adobe crap, a copy of MS Office for compatibility reasons (which rarely gets used), and a WinXP VM in case I need it. It's not just the usability I enjoy, it's also the silence of not having to upgrade software every other hour.

The WIn XP VM is interesting: as I only look at it every 2 weeks, starting it means a good 30 minutes of frantic downloads before it is usable. Here is an experiment for you: do NOT use a Windows machine for 2 weeks and see what happens when you switch it on. Xmas may be a good time to try this at the office.

However, no single brand is God for me - in >30 years experience in electronics, computers, network architecture and security I have learned that you take what works for you and that needs differ for everyone. You thus don't hear me slag off other choices other than from a quality aspect - and I have yet to come across anyone who accuses Microsoft of producing quality..

So you can crawl back under your rock and continue your ignorant life or maybe try another platform for at least a month and see what happens. After all, you can still put Windows on a MacBook. It would be the equivalent of filling up a Porsche with a foot of concrete and yanking up the handbrake before you use it, but that's your choice too. At least it is an INFORMED one at that point, and it may even enable a more adult view on other people's choices.

Sorry for the rant, but it's starting to seriously annoy me that brand w*nking seems to become the norm for a place that normally has reasonably intelligent debate. It appears it has become norm that mentioning a preference for one brand (whatever brand, and for whatever reason) HAS to attract some comment from a Repetitive Stain Injury Sufferer (yes, I left that "r" out) of the perceived "other camp" that it's rubbish and the commentard is a fanboi, usually in a comment laden with indications that the RSIS has never even been in the vicinity of said platform, let alone has tried to use it productively. This then annoys people who know that other camp well, so you trigger a slagging war which is frankly beneath everyone on this site. WTF?

There are arguments for and against every platform, and although I personally have lost the will to live using Windows there may be other people for whom it works - I have even encountered people who like Windows 8. Well, more power to them, and I won't diss their choice. I will, however, reserve the right to diss the supplier, as much as I diss Apple for it's litigation. But not users. It's OK to argue WITH REASONED FACTS for what you believe in, but stick to factual arguments, not personal invective or religion (as an aside, I qualify believing "do not evil" as religion too - I research breaches of law as a hobby) and not every .. bloody .. time ..

No manufacturer could pay me enough to become their fanboi and if anyone accuses me of being one, well, then he/she/it invited the result all by himself. Because I *do* have qualified reasons for my choice, and after experiencing Microsoft for most of my career I can spot BS, empty arguments and creative use of statistics pretty well, even at government and military level. It's the advantage of experience, and being an insider in many camps.

I actually just got an idea for these sorts of messages. I'll have a word with El Reg about this, it may save everyone time.

Let the downvotes begin.

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Windows

Re: RE "Anyway are there any like-for-like non-Apple equivalents?"

Much though i love to apple bash as much as everyone else...(no I don't have one... No I probably never will)

You really can't build a PC with the aesthetics of an iMac - short of spending considerably more money than an iMac would cost you.

Lian Li's offerings?! ROFL!

That would be fine if I wanted my computer to look like something that Dr Who would come across stepping outside his Tardis.

This bugs me big time. Pretty much all off the shelf cases are absolutely butt ugly and a size which hasn't changed since the 1980's.. There is the occasional nice looking screen out there but on the whole the machines are just hideous. Not to mention they never have all the nice little tweaks that Apple usually has with neat folding plugs etc.

The AsRock 3D Vision does come close ... but it comes with a ridiculous price tag too (especially if you add Windows)

And yes when buying something nice to go in my home Aesthetics do matter. No one goes out to purposefully by something that's ugly.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: RE "Anyway are there any like-for-like non-Apple equivalents?"

Is it a single box built into the monitor with one power lead - thought not. Does it run whisper quiet - thought not.

The iMac is not for everyone - if you want to use a different monitor buy a Mac Mini.

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Happy

Re: "Does it run whisper quiet - thought not." I take your point about it not being an.........

...............all-in-one. However, it most certainly does run whisper quiet because in common with many others who get pleasure from building their own I made a point of learning to do it properly rather than just throwing it together.

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Linux

Re: @JDX

For most of us mortals, we have to look at the things to use them. I have to stare at the thing the whole day.

Here's hoping Father Christmas brings me uber touch-typing, mouse-handling skillz as well as the ability to remember where all icons and windows were and will appear.

I wish dell would get its act together and put a nicer bezel on its 2711 and take off the blue lights. Even without a degree in design, I can tell that's ugly.

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Re: @JDX

Does B&O intentionally make their equipment difficult to service by gluing the case shut?

I have the late 2009 21.5" iMac. This model has it's display cover fixed with magnets so no need for a heat gun to open it, and considering this I will not be 'upgrading' to a new iMac.

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Mushroom

Seriously what sort of a comparison is that?

Those that value aesthetics run a mile from BMW and their ugly, boring blandness.

In reality the price of iMacs is actually competitive for what you get. The updates are not, obviously, but if you truly stack up an equivalent Dell or whatever you would be surprised.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: @JDX

Yes they probably do - do you really expect you would service your B&O hifi - or more to the point do you reckon 99% of buyers would. I'll save you the bother - the answer is no. Same as how many people service their own car when the bonnet is not glued down etc.?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: @JDX

What is there to "service" in a computer?

You upgrade the RAM and hard disk, big deal. Here's a radical concept, buy it with the RAM and HDD you want and then save yourself the hassle.

The most popular computers are now laptops which suggests that most people are just happy buying a computer, using it then getting another one. Few people do upgrades.

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Here's a radical concept

Things can change. We have a set of 13 Vostro laptops. With a switch from XP Office 03 to Win7 Office 2010 they all also got a RAM upgrade (one screw, open door, snap in RAM). Two people needed to run XP VMs so they also got bigger hard drives (wow three screws). I've also replaced 3 CMOS batteries that died in a two day period (it's been a couple months and no more have died, strange_) they were a bit of a pain requiring me to download the service manual from Dell's site and remove about 9 screws to get to them.

But no heat gun, guitar picks, splurges, or other such things. And if they were still under warranty I could do the upgrades without voiding the warranty.

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Pint

Re: @JDX

What do you think I'm reading this on?

The only reason I even read this article is that I knew the trolls would be out in force. :)

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Re: RE "Anyway are there any like-for-like non-Apple equivalents?"

Nice that you have the time. Some of us don't. Plus I got bored of building computers quite a few years ago, as it's trivially easy. Since having kids any "spare time" I have is spent sleeping!

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Re: @JDX

Well the 8TB hard drive I would like to have in my computer in a couple of years time hasn't been invented yet. Why should I have to buy a brand new computer when the only problem is that my .mkv collection won't fit in it?

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Re: @JDX

I manage 'all those updates' by using an OS that was released in the last decade.

Win 7 or Win 8 are fine for patching, no worse or better than Ubuntu or OSX. Try a more modern version.

And the Dell XPS range has similar aesthetics, specs and a price that's a nudge less too. Imagine HP do something similar too.

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Re: @JDX

And the SD Card slot on the back. I use it several times a day!

I'll skip this one, too. The old one will do what I want from it for another year or two.

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Re: @JDX

Interesting that you should choose B&O, another shining example of style over substance.

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Re: @JDX

Completely agree, that's why I use linux. Now don't let yourself down by trying to explain why Apple is the ONLY MS alternative, you were doing so well.

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FAIL

I wouldn't buy a Ford or a BMW

...I'd buy an Audi.

As for what the computer looks like, well who's dumb enough to give a shit? When I use a computer I'm looking at a rectangular screen. I don't concern myself what the box under the desk looks like, it's only there to contain the components.

And seriously? Does it really matter whether the edge is 5mm or 10mm? Does it affect what the computer does. It only affects how the bloody thing looks like from the side. If you wish to look at the side of your computer to feel complete then please go ahead and waste your money... it is yours after all. Though personally I think you could do far more useful things with it.

Apple's are computers for people who worry about what other people think. It seems they rarely concern themselves with what the computers actually do.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I wouldn't buy a Ford or a BMW

Apple's are computers for people who worry about what other people think. It seems they rarely concern themselves with what the computers actually do.

You have just proven that you have never USED a Mac. Seriously. I want to work, I open the lid (possibly enter a password). I'm ready, I close it. Once a week I may reboot it, just because I prefer that. It's fully encrypted - comes as standard. I need to draw a diagram for a Visio user, I do that in 50% of the time with Omnigraffle AND it looks about 3x as good. I could in theory do without a backup because when I get home it knows it and streams to the disk I have hanging off my router, but I'm old school and make a second one anyway.

I could go on, but I know for a fact that you have not tried to use an OSX machine of late or you would not have posted the above - the way it looks is a benefit, but for many not the deciding factor.

By the way, if you're so NOT worried about what other people think, why did you spend the money on an Audi? VW, or even Skoda make good enough cars. Buying an Audi is the equivalent of buying a Mac instead of a PC, so you're a tad inconsistent there..

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Re: RE "Anyway are there any like-for-like non-Apple equivalents?"

Er...no. That's what boot camp is for, or if you wish to have it running on osx then fusion from VMware or parallel will do nicely.

Do your homework first.

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Anonymous Coward

Seriously?

JDX - For those who value aesthetics, they ARE pretty lovely... it's like saying everyone should buy Ford rather than BMW.

So why then would you put up with only getting an i5? and what's with the small screen? 27" simply doesn't cut the mustard ... maybe two or three 27" but one is just shoddy.

A better analogy for the Apple buyer would be wanting a Audi and being given a Škoda.

btw - there is no inherent value in aesthetics, it's all in your head.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: @JDX

Funny then that I just put in extra ram and an SSD hd in mine - it's made it quicker and will extend it's life. As for the cost ... well it was minimal because they've come down in price so much since I bought the thing.

It's take a bit of thinking about ... so I guess you'll miss the point ... but TCO and lifecycle are much improved by buying later.

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JDX
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Re: Seriously?

>> there is no inherent value in aesthetics, it's all in your head

Ah, how rational of you. Because something's [not] important to you, that makes it objective rather than opinion.

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FAIL

Re: I wouldn't buy a Ford or a BMW

You have just proven that you have never USED a Mac.

Ding, wrong answer. I have three Macs, all of which were given to me. All three (Intel iMac, G5, G4) run Debian Linux (the iMac dual boots with Snow Leopard)

I could go on, but I know for a fact that you have not tried to use an OSX machine of late or you would not have posted the above - the way it looks is a benefit, but for many not the deciding factor.

A fact? You don't know me at all, let alone what is in my office.

The truth is though that you cannot do anything on a Mac that can't be achieved on a Windows or Linux box. The only difference is that you pay far more to do it on a Mac.

By the way, if you're so NOT worried about what other people think, why did you spend the money on an Audi? VW, or even Skoda make good enough cars. Buying an Audi is the equivalent of buying a Mac instead of a PC, so you're a tad inconsistent there..

Not inconsistent at all. Cars are nothing like computers. For a start they don't share the same parts (by 3rd party manufacturers) and in my experience Audis are far more reliable than BMWs, they do indeed look better (IMV) but are similarly priced. And by coincidence my ageing 323 just went to the scrapyard along with my vow to never, ever buy another BMW. For me it's either Merc or Audi from now on.

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Boffin

Re: "...it's like saying everyone should buy Ford rather than BMW."

Since they all are liable to have "intel inside" it's more like the choice between a Mondeo and a Jag - or a Vauxhall and a Saab (if they still existed). I know which I'd rather have if I had to spend all day in it.

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The top of the range iMac is $1999, which is £1237.03 at 19.54 GMT 7/12/12 exchange rates. Add 20% VAT and you get £1484.44. Apple charge £1699 in the UK.

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Boffin

You must be new here

There have been many instances of US suppliers using a $1 = £1 exchange rate over the years even when the official rate was £1 = $1.5 or thereabouts.

Pretty well all US Suppliers use an artifical exchange rate, i.e. one that bears no resemblance to the official rates.

Lets take MS SQLServer 2012.

Standard edition inc 10CALs (http://www.sqlmag.com/article/sql-server-2012/sql-server-2012-pricing-smb-market-143092)

Uk Price less VAT = £2495 (http://www.ecostsoftware.com/microsoft/sql-server_f493)

US Price = $895 + $209 per cal = $2090 + $898 = $2988

@ approx $1.5/£1.00 gives £1992. Thats over £500 difference.

So Apple is probably not the worst offender but hey, it is about Apple so automatically they are the one to hate the most.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: You must be new here

You were making sense until the last sentence.

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FAIL

Somebody conveniently forgot about import duty and exchange rate fluctuation (the reason the price doesn't change every month) too.

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rvt

And how does it GET to the UK? By teleportation?

Try importing anything yourself for a change and you can see for yourself how prices can add-up.

At least in holland there is also a import tax (I believe).

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Anonymous Coward

"And how does it GET to the UK? By teleportation"

I assumed for the moment, it came by boat came from China, the same way they get to the US.

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FAIL

Re: You must be new here @Steve Davies 3

RM writes:-"The UK prices for the same two models are £1,099 and £1,249, respectively, reflecting the traditionally higher prices paid in Blighty for Apple kit. At Friday's exchange rate, those UK prices work out to $2,400 and $2,725."

That's crap. That would be a dollar exchange rate of $2.1838 to the £.

On Sunday 9 December at 1809:-

£1099 = $1762.63 and £1249 = $2003.21

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Much as I love...

...moaning about Apple, every second article I read on the Reg these days is Apple-related.

Come on Reg, you're spending a disproportionate amount of time on their shenanigans. Give us some real news.

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Headmaster

Re: Much as I love...

There are 51 articles on the front page of El Reg. Of them, 7 are about Apple, and another 4 mention Apple or iDevices either in passing, or alongside competing devices.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Much as I love...

There is no other interesting news - the others are just waiting to see what Apple do then get busy trying to do it also. I switched from Windows about 18 months ago - Windows 7 - it's ok but it's nothing on OSX. I recon the time saved from using OSX has paid for itself many times over. TimeMachine and having to perform a recovery is so much easier and quicker than windows and a normal user can do it - out of the box. To get close with Windows it's extra hardware or a lot more faff.

I can still run Windows but now it's literally a few 'legacy' company applications we have that would cost too much to re-write - so we just run them under a VM. Best of both worlds.

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Re: Much as I love...

+1 forget the aesthetics. A noob-usable backup system in time-machine and ilife are the reasons for recommending a mac to your Aunt May.

Using W7 is nicer than XP, but I find it more confusing with things not where you expect them - Control panel is now a bit of a farce of non-meaningful catagories. The mac's centralised and simple config does much better for non-corporate hosts.

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Re: Much as I love...

XP had Shadow Copy, but your Aunt Mary would still have to seek out a 3rd party utility for actually making image backups. Win 7 has a TimeMachine- like image back up utility built in, but it fails halfway through if you don't turn off MS's own AV software first! FFS, how difficult would it be to add a notification window telling the user: "Before making this backup, first run a virus scan and take any recommended actions" - if not have the backup system do this itself?

There are a lot of Aunt Marys out there, and many of us who might be called upon to provide tech support for a cup of tea and a slice of cake... and we might not want to have to receive a phone call every time the OS throws an esoteric message at them. Having the user's computer make backups of itself without their input makes life easier for everyone involved.

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Facepalm

Re: Much as I love...

There are 51 articles on the front page of El Reg. Of them, 7 are about Apple, and another 4 mention Apple or iDevices either in passing, or alongside competing devices.

Wow! I can't believe someone was anal enough to take what I wrote LITERALLY, and count all the articles in the front page that referenced Apple.

You, sir, need to get a life.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Much as I love...

Point is Windows does not (out of the box) have anything as good / reliable as TimeMachine. We tested the backup (as you should) - could do a full re-install to the same or a different Mac and be back up and working in about 30-40 minutes. The big deal is it's so simple anyone could do it - when you plug in a hard drive it instantly asks if you want to use it for TimeMachine (if not already configured).

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FAIL

"Before making this backup, first run a virus scan"

Hopeless. Why should that be necessary? How long does that take? How often do you want to run a backup? Time Machine is always on, requires no attention from me so I can work uninterrupted, backs up silently and in 2 years I've never lost anything, just go back and get it.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "Before making this backup, first run a virus scan"

Macs don't get viruses

Macs just work

Mac build quality is second to none

So.... why do you need a backup and have to restore things?

Hmm.. that leaves user error.

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Silver badge

Re: "Before making this backup, first run a virus scan"

Mac Hard drives are just as likely to fail as PC hard drives, as they are the same hard drives. I don't know what the SSD drives are like.

Being able to go back in time to recover a file you have accidentally deleted or changed is very useful, and you can do that with out having to call your IT guru for help.

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