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back to article Astronomers find biggest black hole, 17 BILLION times the size of Sun

A team at the Max Planck Institute for Astronomy has found the largest recorded black hole, one that swallows an unprecedented amount of its home galaxy, potentially requiring a rethink in our understanding of galactic formation. The huge hole has been spotted in the heart of the disk system NGC 1277, a smallish galaxy about 10 …

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Trollface

"Time for a rethink" suggests Dr. Karl

Was that quote regarding his thoughts on black holes, or something they picked up at his hairdressers?

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Re: "Time for a rethink" suggests Dr. Karl

I saw the "click to enlarge" link on Karl's picture and got scared.

What happens when two galaxies collide, actually not much since there is so much distance between the stars.

But if the black hole is is on the right trajectory it can swallow up most of the other galaxy and possibly merge the two black holes.

I am curious who funds this work? It is tuition or part of our $16B of debt?

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Alien

I'm sure I saw that guy in 'Independence Day'. Apparently they don't let them out much.

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Ah, thank you!

I was racking my brain trying to think who he looked like.

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Re: "Time for a rethink" suggests Dr. Karl

"I saw the "click to enlarge" link on Karl's picture and got scared."

I don't blame you, it's scary even at normal size

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JDX
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Re: "Time for a rethink" suggests Dr. Karl

What happens if two black holes collide?

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Anonymous Coward

What happens if two black holes collide?

You cant have 2 holes colliding, they become 1 bigger hole soon as they meet

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JDX
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Re: What happens if two black holes collide?

Define 'meet'. Isn't that the same as 'collide'?

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Go

Best use of 'goatse' ever

Carry on.

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Re: Best use of 'goatse' ever

Best use of an email service?

I don't get it...

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Devil

Re: Best use of 'goatse' ever

To help you understand, just google goatse and switch to image view - that should explain everything...

Heh Heh Heh

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Coat

The bloody egg

Looses all credibility using the "Chicken and egg" causality dilemma. It's the Egg! The modern chicken came from an egg laid by its predecessor, a chicken like bird.

Now. Do black holes spawn galaxies, or do galaxies spawn black holes? Perhaps black holes are formed early in the universe and swirl up the soup of matter created by the big bang and form galaxies?

Probably not, but just putting it out there.....

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Alert

Re: The bloody egg

But the chicken and egg scenario does not just relate to that single first chicken.

You said that a chicken like bird laid the egg so it came first. Well, was this bird born or from an egg? The precursor to this bird, was that born or from an egg. Keep going. That is what it refers to.

You make a great point regarding the galaxies though. Were black holes there from the bang or were they formed. Perhaps they even both occurred at the same time.

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Re: The bloody egg

Firstly, no, that's not what it refers to in the minds of the majority of people.

Secondly - if it did - then it's still the egg, unless you're arguing that the modern chicken is the ur-bird from which all other birds are descended.....

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Boffin

Re: The bloody egg

Its all circular.

I would imagine that if you have enough mass concentrated at the center of a black hole, it will explode.

(Boom) or rather a Big Bang.

Of course at that point, time and space would cease to have meaning in the conventional sense....

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Coat

But its not black

Picture is definately mostly orange, with a white bit in the middle.

I'm getting it, I'll be out of here if I can reach escape velocity, hopefully I'm not inside the Schwarzschild radius already.

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Re: But its not black

It's ok. With a black hole that size you should get a great view of the singularity before you're spaghettified out of existence.

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Mushroom

but its not black: definately mostly orange, with a white bit in the middle

that's because it's an inverse fried egg, which probably solves the chicken and egg dilemma in a very tasty way.

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Boffin

Result of galaxy collision?

What if two smaller galaxies rotating in the same plane collided with each other? Couldn't that mutually feed a lot of mass into the black holes at each other's centres before coalescing into one galaxy?

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Boffin

Re: Result of galaxy collision?

Maybe something like that. You have to kill a lot of angular momentum so that most of the galaxies' matter can fall into the centre. Maybe two contra-rotating galaxies with nearly equal but opposite angular momentum approaching each other very slowly (relatively speaking) down a common axis of rotation, leading to a merged one with almost no angular momentum?

I imagine that the astronomers are busy running lots of simulations, trying to work out how it happened, or whether it's physically impossible (under current accepted physics) rather than merely unlikely. The biggest anything is almost always unlikely. and there are a LOT of observable galaxies.

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Boffin

Supposedly

The event horizon would stretch beyond Neptune's orbit

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JDX
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Re: Supposedly

Someone remind me... once you're beyond the event horizon you can never get back but does that also mean you can't escape getting closer and closer, or could you enter into orbit of the singularity inside the EH?

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Re: Supposedly

Inside the Event Horizon the laws of physics break down, no one really knows.

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JDX
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Re: Supposedly

No they don't. As Hawking says in ABHOT, you wouldn't even know you'd crossed the event horizon.

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Re: Supposedly

Ah sorry yes, inside the singularity the laws break down.

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All used for a game of bar billiards created by the gods?

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Yeah. Only scored thirty points too.

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Pint

That guys' pic...

Best photo of a super star yet!

Astronomy is actually getting cool! (again)

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Go

No! Bad! BAD REG!

"17 billion times the size of Sun" should evidently read "17 billion times the mass of Sun".

The SIZE of black hole can be conveniently (but only approximately) described with the Schwarzschild radius (which, amazingly, depends linearly on the mass, instead of, you know, only on the cube root of the mass).

We have:

3.38147 × 10^40 kilograms x 1.485 x 10^-27 m/kg ~ 5 x 10^13 m ~ 333 Astronomical Units.

That's about 12 times the orbit of Pluto. Damn.

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Re: No! Bad! BAD REG!

Sorry, I am going to need that answer expressed in Olympic swimming pools.

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Re: No! Bad! BAD REG!

Volume of a sphere = 4/3*Pi*r^3

1 AU = 149,597,871 km

r = 333AU = 49,816,091,043 km

Olympic Swimming pool volume = >2,500m^3

Volume = 5.1784233056683328044188335230758 * 10^32 km^3 = 5.1784233056683328044188335230758 * 10^41m3 =

2.0713693222673331217675334092303 *10^38 Olympic Swimming pools.

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Re: No! Bad! BAD REG!

Geez, that would take a while to swim across!!

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Re: No! Bad! BAD REG!

That number is pleasingly large

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Pint

Re: No! Bad! BAD REG!

Swim? no think of the amoutn of beer it would hold. That would make for one hell of a party, or just pre dinner drinks if you ever go caving

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Re: No! Bad! BAD REG!

Not very long at all, to swim half-way across. After that all bets are off. Just maybe, ...

There was a young lady named Bright // Who could travel much faster than light. // She took off one day, // In a relative way, // And returned on the previous night.

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Joke

It's the caption's fault

"A really, really, really big hole (click to enlarge)"

-click-

-click-

-click-

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Anonymous Coward

Who's afraid of the big, black hole

The big, black hole

The big, black hole?

Who's afraid of the big, black hole

Tra la la la la

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chalk board

anyone else notice their is a diagram on the chalk board that looks a lot like a penis?

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Thumb Up

It's great to see some hard science from Texas

It's refreshing after all the religious who-harr produced by Texans during the election.

Until next time...

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Coat

The Cygnus and the Palomino have been spotted?

Let's go and investigate!

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well

I guess that really sucks ...

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A really, really, really big hole

"(click to enlarge)" Don't you think it's big enough already?

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Black hole at the center of our galaxy . . .

. . is only 4 million solar masses, not 4 billion. Still, Sgr A* manages to keep a lot of astronomers employed.

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Boffin

Dark Matter

Does this new discovery change the amount of mass they attribute to dark matter? If some (maybe a lot) of black holes are bigger than they thought?

Please someone that knows more about how they caculated the mass the universe should be let me know.

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Boffin

Re: Dark Matter

Well, it's hard to calculate the mass-density of the observable universe exactly, but it's in a very narrow band of all the possibilities. Slightly higher, and the universe would have collapsed back into a singularity (or at least a very small very hot entity) so long ago, that planets and life could never have formed. Slightly lower, and the universe would have expanded so far and so fast that there would be no stars, galaxies, planets or life, just a very thin soup of particles very close to absolute zero.

Hence to the weak antrhopic principle (for atheists) or the hand of $DEITY (for the religious).

Black holes betray their presence by their gravitational influence on the things around them. It's doubtless the odd nature of this galaxy that lets us deduce that the black hole at its centre is a monster, just as "ordinary" galaxies let us deduce the presence of an "ordinary" galactic-centre-sized black hole. So unless monster black holes can be lurking all alone in intergalactic voids (how?), they can't be the dark matter we are looking for. And anyway, we need a dark matter halo to make gravitationally bound galaxies work at all, and then there's the Bullet galaxy where two galaxies have collided head-on and one can observe the separation of the formerly-associated dark matter.

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Facepalm

Biggest != Typical

Shouldn't one always expect the biggest of anything to be an outlier, an anomaly, a bit of a freak? Unless it's difficult to concoct any scenario leading to the formation of this monster, one should surely assume that the observable universe is large enough for even very unlikely things to have happened somewhere.

And of course, the biggest is also the one shouting loudest for our attention. (Well, apart from Gamma-ray bursts, whatever they may be! )

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Boffin

Re: Biggest != Typical

"What's more, the discovery doesn’t seem to be a freak of nature. The team surveying black holes has found five other galaxies with similar characteristics"

"Eight months ago, the team discovered a black hole that could be as large as 30 billion solar masses (though that's unconfirmed)."

Source - The "Astronomers find biggest black hole, 17 BILLION times the size of Sun" Article.

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Flame

Not Einstein Again...

Goofballs don't even know what gravity is or why it works. It acts instantaneously across the Universe. None of that speed of light throttling, not for our bellicose "gravitons", no sir. Einstein kludges up the "fabric of space-time" fairy tale and the number crunchers go into a century long phlogiston orgasm making John Holmes look like a cross-eyed hamster by comparison. WE ARE the "black hole" and the grant funded cardinals and bishops are working us like a twenty dollar convention hooker.

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