Windows 8: A soaraway Kinect? Or is it Red Ink Friday for Microsoft?
Can Windows 8 and Windows RT slabs bring the Kinect effect to Microsoft? That’s the question as US shoppers and retailers begin a four-week shopping frenzy in the run up to Christmas. It was just over two years ago Microsoft launched its hands-free game controller Kinect for the Xbox to wild and unexpected success. This was …
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You're comparing the release of Kinect, an entertainment hardware device, with the release of an operating system? Are you high?
What does Win8 bring over Win7? Metro, barely noticeable under the hood improvements and loss of desktop features - so basically just Metro.
Metro is a consumption interface, the software equivalent of a shiny new peripheral added to a gaming device. The comparison seems very appropriate.
Kinect was not invented by Microsoft
Microsoft bought the Kinect (and the company that made it). If they make their own kit, then they cannot sell it. The XBox sold moderately well, but Microsoft invested $11 billion in it, and have made huge losses and are still making losses on it.
Microsoft have failed with Zune, Surface (yes it has failed all ready) and windows phone. They have no clue how to make products that are desirable to consumers. But they are great at selling spreadsheets to corporations.
What does Win8 bring over Win7?
Affordability.
I got mine for a new (clean) notebook for 29 Eur. That's for the professional version, downloaded directly from MS. Took about 1 hour from opening Google to up-and-running (including the burning of the evaluation version, which was required to start the proper download). I was quite impressed: the jump from winXP to win8 was much less painful than expected.
Now I hope to have some 10 years of quiet before I have to switch again :).
Imagine
You can imagine the kids losing sleep homing that the parents put a Kinect under the Christmas tree to enliven their XBox experience. And parents would like the kids to get some exercise while they play games.
How many kids are going to lose sleep hoping there's a Win8 DVD under the tree?
Re: Affordability
That does show that Microsoft could have skipped spending all that money to develop a phone interface for the desktop, released the kernel improvements as a Win7 service pack AND dropped the price, and still made a shitload of money out of it. After all, it's not like most people are going to buy or otherwise use any OS except Windows when they buy a computer. Microsoft could release a great steaming turd and people will buy it because buying anything else means saying goodbye to the vast majority of all software written for PCs.
In fact, I do believe that's what Microsoft has just done with TIFKAM.
Re: the jump from winXP to win8 was much less painful than expected
Unless, like me, you're jumping XP 32bit -> Win8 64bit and the $39.99 download only gives you a 32bit installer... also not entirely sure how losing ALL your configuration counts as 'less painful' ;)
Re: Kinect was not invented by Microsoft
Micorosft failed with Windows phone?! Are you high? The Lumia 920 is top of the Amazon Best Sellers list above the Galaxy S3 and Note 2 and the 2.5 million initial batch has sold out worldwide already! Hence why Nokia's share price went up about 25% in the last week....
nb - Microsoft didnt buy Kinect - they bought the sensor tech and chip - and designed most of the rest of it including the software in house.
Re: Kinect was not invented by Microsoft
Actually Microsoft make a massive profit on the Xbox - Live has 40 million active subscribers, ther Xbox has an attach rate (number of games sold per console) over double the nearest rival, and they make a profit on every Xbox sold.
"Microsoft's strongest growth came from the Entertainment division where the Xbox resides, however. That group's revenue jumped 14 percent to $4.24 billion, a new high. The Xbox 360 installed base now totals approximately 66 million consoles and 18 million Kinect sensors, Microsoft said. Xbox Live now has 40 million members worldwide, an increase of 33 percent from the prior year period. "
Re: Kinect was not invented by Microsoft
> Actually Microsoft make a massive profit on the Xbox
I really don't know where you get the rubbish you spout, or why.
http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-microsoft-losses-on-xbox-2012-6
"""Overall, the Xbox group has lost $4 billion for Microsoft."""
http://www.lazygamer.net/xbox-360/microsoft-posts-surprising-xbox-360-loss/
"""Microsoft’s entertainment and devices division - which includes its Xbox business – made a staggering loss of $229 million in the first three months of this year,"""
http://www.businessinsider.com/nokia-payments-cause-entertainment-and-devices-division-loss-2012-7
"""Microsoft had a pretty [2nd] good quarter overall, but one thing that stood out was a $263 million loss in the Entertainment and Devices division."""
@ RICHTOt
> Micorosft failed with Windows phone?! Are you high?
You must have been when you predicted that Nokia would sell 30 million WP7 phones this year. They actually have sold less than 10 million, so that would be a failure based on your prediction. Even then they are rumoured to have destroyed 1 million that couldn't be sold to distributors.
Re: Kinect was not invented by Microsoft
> Kinect - they bought the sensor tech and chip - and designed most of the rest of it including the software in house.
They _licenced_ the tech and the support software was written by Rare in the UK.
Re: Kinect was not invented by Microsoft
@RICHTO
"The Lumia 920 is top of the Amazon Best Sellers list above the Galaxy S3 and Note 2"
Did you major in "Critical Information Seeking" and fail badly.
The Amazon best sellers list changes HOURLY - the Nokias were nowhere when I looked a minute ago. The 920 was No 9 on the with contract list and the 710 was 23 on the unlocked.
Almost all the top phones where Samsung and Blackberry with the odd iPhone
Re: Kinect was not invented by Microsoft
From your own link "The Xbox is now a solidly profitable division."
The Xbox 360 has made over a Billion dollars in clear profit for Microsoft since launch, and they now make about $115 profit from every new Xobx sold:
http://www.tampabay.com/features/popculture/no-new-xbox-until-at-least-2013-but-thats-okay/1220706
http://www.industrygamers.com/news/xbox-360-ships-137-million-units-in-fiscal-2011-profit-doubles/
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/36011/Microsofts_Xbox_360_Division_Sees_132_Billion_Profit_For_Fiscal_Year_2011.php
http://www.vgchartz.com/article/250272/11-million-xbox-360-shipped-for-the-quarter-ending-june-30/
Re: Kinect was not invented by Microsoft
That would obviously be becuase they have all now sold out!
Re: Kinect was not invented by Microsoft
> From your own link "The Xbox is now a solidly profitable division."
Some of your links were from nearly 2 years ago, mine were from this year. Certainly there were quarters when some profit was made in the division, but this year (2012) it has been making losses and the total accumulated loss is over 4 billion.
> they now make about $115 profit from every new Xobx sold:
That is not an actual figure but a guess made by an outsider.
"""Wedbush Securities analyst Michael Pachter told Bloomberg that he estimates each console sold nets Microsoft about $115 in profit.''''
"This was Microsoft’s second foray into hardware"
Apart from the Microsoft Mouse, Microsoft keyboards, some kind of crap media player (Zune?), etc, etc.
Re: "This was Microsoft’s second foray into hardware"
And, obviously, the first Xbox.
Re: "This was Microsoft’s second foray into hardware"
Indeed. According to PCMag.com, Microsoft's first hardware products were released in 1980, and they were expansion cards for the Apple II line...
http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow/story/300240/the-secret-history-of-microsoft-hardware/1
What I need here is the ability to put two icons on my post: a thumbs-up for Kubla and a red-fail for the article. I'll settle for the thumbs-up because Kubla already did the red-fail.
Re: "This was Microsoft’s second foray into hardware"
You can't really count the MS mouse and keyboard, they're just rebranded stuff designed by logitech.
Why does everyone forget Kin??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Kin
It did even worse than Zune. SO badly that most people don't even know it happened.
It had a tile UI - the killer feature carried forward into Win8.
Re: "This was Microsoft’s second foray into hardware"
> they're just rebranded stuff
When the first laser mouse units were designed (not by Logitech) Microsoft purchased the first 6 months production, all of it, whatever they would make, so that Logitech could not get hold of any of them. It may be that the guts of MS and Logitech products are the same but that is because they are both buying units built elsewhere.
Kinnect was also a bought in product and was programmed by Rare in the UK.
Part of the Kinect appeal was hackability, people using it for other purposes.
By launching Surface RT with a locked down secure boot that hackability is lost.
The WHOLE appeal of Kinect was hackability..
Were you not at all suspicious why Engadget constantly posted articles about Kinect hacks? It will all become apparent when you see it's official use, as everything on Xbox Kinect was embarrassingly bad.
It was an elaborate smokescreen by Microsoft and it's pals in the press to make you feel better about your purchase of overpriced junk.
Re: The WHOLE appeal of Kinect was hackability..
No one cares about Kinect any more do they?
Re: The WHOLE appeal of Kinect was hackability..
Not unless you think that dancing Han Solo or Slave Leia is "awesome."
I'm looking forward to seeing Kinect enforcing a per-seat "license" scheme (which they recently patented). That should kill Xbox deader than a Kin.
Re: The WHOLE appeal of Kinect was hackability..
Kinect sold 18 million by Jan 2012 so it seems a lot of people do care....
Re: The WHOLE appeal of Kinect was hackability..
Yes but what are the figures for this year?
Re: The WHOLE appeal of Kinect was hackability..
and then sold 1m in the following year. A combination of channel stuffing, pre-hype and disappointment all in equal measure...
XP
What percentage would buy XP with SP4 proper File Explorer and choice of skins with all spurious services off by default and no "crapware" pre-installed and NT4.0 Enterprise's support for 16G RAM?
It would boot faster than Win7 or Win8
More Software runs on it.
More memory is free for applications
Maybe MS lost sight of what users actually need and want (not the same) about 10 years ago?
How much "success" has each version of Windows because there is no choice and it's pre-installed?
Re: XP
Have to admit my completely virgin Win8 64bit does boot faster than the crusty, decade old XP 32bit install it dual boots the same hardware.
A 45s vs 60s difference. And just like XP it's actually ready to accept *and respond to* input a fair while after that.
Frankly I expected more improvement just from jumping 32-64bit and the clean file system advantage. Like previous smoke and mirrors it feels like it starts much faster but it's really just putting the screens up while it finishes loading.
It would boot faster than Win7 or Win8
More Software runs on it.
More memory is free for applications
All of those are false.
Nice try.
@dogged
Ahem. All of those are *true*. Booting means - from on button to usable (when the hourglass and disk thrashing vaguely stops.
Re: @dogged
My Samsung tablet is "instant on". I press the power button and the logon screen appears. I enter my password and the UI appears. Sub-second response each time. On my 15 year old daughters Asus laptop the boot time to password is less than 10 seconds, over 50% improvement. From password entry to UI taking input less than 2. Significant improvements from previous Windows 7. Shutdown is almost instaneous, although the disk busy light keeps going for a couple of seconds after the UI has gone.
Re: @dogged
That's not a tablet. You are using your Etch-a-sketch again.
Re: @dogged
And there speaks the voice of total ignorance. For your information I'm talking about the Samsung Ativ Smart PC Pro model XE700T1C.
Re: Instant On
That's easy when it never really turns off.
I have an Asus Transformer Prime that does the same thing. Oh, and an old Windows XP laptop that's pretty similar. Even Linux machines are at it.
Now try Windows 8 from a cold boot, and enjoy watching Mint v12 beat it to a usable desktop.
Kinect effect
I think it already has this.
Tell everyone it's amazing, when actually it's utter shite.
Buying Windows 8
Almost all of the people buying windows 8 are just buying a new computer that happens to come with windows 8. I don't think you will find a lot of people who are buying because they want Windows 8.
Re: Buying Windows 8
I'd love to see the sales returns numbers. "This isn't windows"!
A *BIG* difference
The Kinect is open enough to allow people to connect it to what they want, hack away at it and do cool new things that MS never thought of. All this brings press coverage for the Kinect and is, in effect, free PR. (I'm ignoring the legal threats MS issued to the first hackers.)
Win8, on the other hand, is locked down tight and so is the hardware. No hacking, no cool new ideas, nothing. So all MS get is the bad press about how shit Win8 is (and it is shit).
The poor quality of the Surface.
Oh, and the bad press about blocking the Linux Foundation's attempts to get their own bootloader signed.
And the other bad press about dodgy firmware that only accepts the MS boot label.
And the...you get the idea.
Re: A *BIG* difference
"And the...you get the idea."
Are the missing words 'other made up shite I am spouting' ...?
Re: A *BIG* difference
Why don't you Linux fanbois go make your own tablet? Then you can hack something that no-one else would want to use so you wouldn't harm anyone.
Re: A *BIG* difference
> Why don't you Linux fanbois go make your own tablet?
Well actually 'Linux fanbois' are making tablets: they call them Android, but underneath they are Linux.
> that no-one else would want to use
Only about a million units a day for Android.
Re: A *BIG* difference
And there is the problem in a nutshell. Every different flavour of unix/linux. Fracturing all over the place yet again. Except of course with Android you have to pay for the Apple and Microsoft patent licensing or risk the legal big guns being turned on you. Just ask HTC.
So why don't you go and hack those then? Why do want to install Linux on a Windows tablet? Hardware no good?
Re: A *BIG* difference
Sour grapes at an OS with a Linux kernel under there somewhere getting to be phenomenally, unbelievably successful?
Let me look at your posting history...
Yep. Sour grapes. Sorry boy, but Microsoft aren't going to borg this industry. Neither are Apple, now.
Re: A *BIG* difference
To add to Richard's excellent response, there is the PengPod and the Vivaldi Tablet, plus any number of "odd ball" things coming out of China. Oh and the WebOS unit that HP dropped during it's most recent schizophrenic fit. Need I go on?
If you hate Linux, good luck in using your fridge, PVR, eReader, car and router; all of which are probably running a Linux in one form or another.
Re: A *BIG* difference
"Why do want to install Linux on a Windows tablet?"
Why should MS be allowed to dictate to me what I can do with my own property?
Would you be happy with Ford telling you which company's fuel you can use? Or what clothes you have to wear when driving?
It's the principle. My device, my choice. And yes, before you start, Apple are equally guilty (but they're not a convicted monopolist yet and are not restricting choice on other company's products like MS are).
Re:"convicted monopolist"
you keep saying that, as if MS were convicted of having a monopoly when you KNOW because I and other have told you, this is not the case. There is nothing illegal about a monopoly or about trying to get one.
They were accused of trying to leverage an OS monopoly into a browser monopoly at a time when the other browser (Netscape Navigator) wanted money for their product and MS didn't. They gave it away for free with the OS. You could still install Netscape Navigator easily enough; IE never blocked Navigator from working.
These days, anyone who cares can use the browser ballot to install whatever they like. For free. Do you think browsers would be free if not for MS? Because I have to say, I doubt it.
"convicted monopolist" again and again and again. You don't even know what you're typing. I reckon it's a reflex.
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