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back to article Pirate cops bust LITTLE GIRL, take her Winnie-the-Pooh laptop

In their zeal to excise the cancer of copyright-infringing downloads, a Finnish anti-piracy group sent police to the home of a nine-year-old girl, where the coppers confiscated her Winnie-the-Pooh laptop. The Pooh-impounding plods were unleashed upon the young lass by the Finnish Copyright Information and Anti-Piracy Centre ( …

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Childcatcher

9 years old

9!

Pooh to the thugs from the Copyright Stazi.

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Black Helicopters

Re: 9 years old

I'm sure Orlowski will be able to put a positive spin on this.

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Re: Orlowski will be able to put a positive spin on this

I doubt it. My guess is that he absolutely hates this sort of thing because it is something that really *is* capable of convincing the general public that intellectual property rights are inherently evil and must be abolished.

If you wake up in 2020 and discover that inventors and artists can no longer make a living selling their talent and that your international rivals can steal whatever they like from your employer's product line, blame the record companies.

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Devil

Re: Orlowski will be able to put a positive spin on this

I'm generally law abiding when it comes to copyright material, but this sort of this just make you think "fuck 'em", tool up with TOR and download as much as you can.

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Coat

Re: 9 years old

"9!

Pooh to the thugs from the Copyright Stazi."

I have never heard someone 9! = 362,880 years old referred to as a kid. A stiff, yes, a fossil, more likely

Please pass me the one with the elementary algebra book in th epocket

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Facepalm

Re: 9 years old

I think the commenter was going for "9 exclamation mark" not "9 factorial"

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Orlowski will be able to put a positive spin on this

Please don't "tool up with TOR and download as much as you can". The TOR network wasn't designed for that, and it causes massive latency issues for other TOR users (as well as headaches for the volunteers who donate exit nodes).

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Thumb Up

Re: 9 years old

I used to own a calculator that took 27 seconds to work out 49!

I think I bought it from Tandy. Just thought you'd like to know :)

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Thumb Up

Re: 9 years old

I remember my old Casio being similar...

And now my mobile phone, using RealCalc, tells me with no discernable pause for thought that 170!=7.257415615*10^306... Remarkable...

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Windows

Re: 9 years old

I actually welcome this development.

Because, when this 9 year old grows up, she will vote in a government that takes a sensible and balanced view of copyright protection in the digital age.

The deadbeats who are enforcing this kind of stupidity are in the process of sawing off the branch they are sitting on. I don't think the rising generation will wear this.

The Tramp: that is what I'll be when the 9 year old is old enough to vote (Osborne is after my pension)

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Coat

Re: 9 years old

If you really want to be pedantic, a formerly living being from 362,880 years ago is unlikely to have completely fossilized by now (while we're grabbing our textbooks and all).

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I f soviet russiahad only won that war...

They would have had the freedom to do what they liked to survive, if they could and everyone would have beena pirate. Even the policce would have been on the side of the people ....(who pay their wages these days.)

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I'm positive the police are shit.

Every-f-where.

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Re: Orlowski will be able to put a positive spin on this

Is this any worse than what the RIAA did; suing a 7 year old girl whose mother was disabled for downloading a mp3? Maybe Anonymous can invent ways for people do download. Up with the Pirate Party.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Orlowski will be able to put a positive spin on this

In other news, Germany just made anonymous filesharing illegal.

http://torrentfreak.com/anonymous-file-sharing-ruled-illegal-by-german-court-121123/

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Orlowski will be able to put a positive spin on this

"...Germany just made anonymous filesharing illegal."

I can't find the link now but after the last batch of Ip laws were passed in Germany, a spokesman from the German federal police made a statement to the effect that they didn't have sufficient resources to chase copyright infringers as they had more important things to worry about, such as terrorism. He implied that they would only chase infringement of a commercial nature.

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Joke

Re: Orlowski will be able to put a positive spin on this

Yes that is true. The problem here in Germany is that a few windy Lawyers have taken it upon themselves to send out threatening letters with totally out of proportional demands to pay certain certain sums of money. I have a friend who apparently tried to download a film (for 6 min´s) at the same time as uploading it & stating their IP adress as evidence. The fact that the IP adress was wrong (& the line was only 1.2 s so therefore absolutely unable to do such a thing!) they should also sign a form to say they would not do a anything like that again ( DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING LIKE THAT!!!!) was for the Lawyers irrelevant. So now my friend has taken the correspondence to their Lawyer. He just laughed & said wait & see if they are prepared to go to court, as it would be thrownout before it got before a judge!!!!!

What has happen to this poor girl is so heavyhanded that the Father should & must go to a Lawyer & also press charges against these shameless idiots!!!!!!

The fact that the Artist is not bothered enough to help this girl says also a lot about her morals!! I hope she looses a lot of fans& income.

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Headmaster

Re: "9 exclamation mark"

First, it should be "marks" (ie plural) not "mark" .

Secondly, where is your justification for claiming that the commentator was going for nine exclamation marks. This is a serious journal and it is much more likely that a reader would use the conventional format of one exclamation mark to signify surprise and incredulity.

Thirdly, I've got bored with being literal - one up to Winkypop and one up to Michael H.F. Wilkinson.

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Re: Orlowski will be able to put a positive spin on this

"The artist" can't do much. She can make legally-irrelevant statements in her choice of forums, but as far as actually altering the course of the prosecution is concerned - nope.

About all she could, in theory, do is to pay for the kid's defence and maybe buy her a new laptop. But bear in mind that "big in Finland" does not automatically mean "multi-millionnaire". It's a small market. Would you be willing to pay that kind of money to help a complete stranger? If so, there are probably more deserving cases for your charity.

For the future, of course - when her contract is up for renegotiation, she could hold out for some level of legal control over enforcement of copyrights in her works. But that wouldn't help this family.

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Big Brother

Re: 9 years old

Keep dreaming. At this rate, by the time this 9-year-old is old enough to vote, having sensible views on copyright will be grounds for imprisonment, let alone public service.

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Happy

@Jordan Davenport

And probably isn't au fait with downloading stuff from Pirate Bay, either.

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Trollface

Re: 9 years old

Er, it's, I say, it's a JOKE son! You gotta - I say, you gotta keep on your toes. Toes, that is.

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Anonymous Coward

So the amount is excessive but I don't know what else is wrong with this.

They even openly admin they attempted to steal their work.

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Anonymous Coward

what's wrong is

no illegal copying actually occurred.

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"They even openly admin they attempted to steal their work."

Bzzt! Infringement is not stealing.

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WTF?

I don't know what else is wrong with this??

1) She was nine years old. She probably just googled the song, saw a link and tried to download it. She may not even have realized it was wrong.

2) It was ONE FUCKING TRACK. Which she didn't even succeed in downloading.

3) The original amount asked for was ridiculously excessive. The father probably didn't take it seriously.

3) So, as a result, the police arrive in force, armed with and confiscate a nine-year-old girl's laptop.

And you don't see anything wrong with that??

This is on a par with a nine-year-old kid being arrested for stealing a few sweets from the Pic-and-Mix at Wilkinsons.

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This is a 9 year old CHILD...

She is likely not even aware that what she did was illegal - many adults aren't that sure. Equally, how do they prove that the father had any knowledge that the child attempted this?

This is a ridiculous act of 'summary justice', only matched by the brutal, ham fisted handling by the police.

Would the same gestapo tactics be employed for other minor deeds by a child? Doubtful. And as for the attempt to get the father to sign an NDA over the settlement, I too would apply FOAD as well and post the damn thing and the full story with as many news agencies as possible.

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WTF?

Re: I don't know what else is wrong with this??

"This is on a par with a nine-year-old kid being arrested for stealing a few sweets from the Pic-and-Mix at Wilkinsons."

Given she didn't even download the song & her Dad bought it for her the following day - it's actually more akin to trying to pick up a sweet and finding her hands too small. Tells Daddy who buys her the sweet. Then getting arrested for stealing - totally bizarre.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I don't know what else is wrong with this??

It was an album, according to TorrentFreak.

Still not justified.

No material downloaded.

No material made available for further copying

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FAIL

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

You keep referring to copying as "theft".

Theft has a very specific definition in law: it means, dishonestly taking someone else's property with intent permanently to deprive them of it.

So, please tell me what the thing is that person A had before person B copied a piece of music, that they no longer have afterwards? Because if there is no deprivation, then there is no theft.

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Re: I don't know what else is wrong with this??

"No material made available for further copying"

Especially this one. There is a very strong case to be made against some publishing other people's intellectual property onliine. Merely downloading it without making it available to someone else is on an order of magnitude a lesser infringement (and that's even before considering in this specific case that teh download failed)

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Re: "They even openly admin they attempted to steal their work."

And we slowly walk to a world like "minority report" where just because you might commit a crime your arrested!

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Paris Hilton

Re: I don't know what else is wrong with this??

I'm certainly not excusing the tactics employed by the enforcers, but:

She visits ThePirateBay and is presented with a list of links to d/l the track/album. Aren't they all magnet links nowadays? If so, Winnie the Laptop needs some s/w installed to recognise that link and translate that into a torrent download (ditto if it was an actual .torrent file).

So, either:

a) she didn't have the software (why would a 9-y-o install u-torrent, for example?) in which case the enforcers are monitoring the clicks on ThePirateBay (and I thought they were all cloudy, now, so you couldn't do that).

Or:

b) she did have the software, which may raise eyebrows, but aborts the download before it completes - perhaps due to ISP throttling of P2P? Enforcers are, in this case, monitoring IP addresses in a swarm.

Am I missing something, or is her laptop not as pure as the driven snow (regardless of who installed the software)?

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Re: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Not were I live. Theft is defined as taking some thing that does not belong to you. So if I take your car but give after few days no theft happened right

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Re: I don't know what else is wrong with this??

We know she failed to download it. I agree that we don't know all the details, but when do we ever?

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Re: This is a 9 year old CHILD...

9 year old child? This is a young criminal and we all know what happens to young criminals - they grow old and are going to commit serious crimes. Before you realise she'll be raping your wife, robing your children, terrorising your country or even pirating some software. Lock her up!

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Re: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

"So if I take your car but give after few days no theft happened right"

But then we just come back to the old question: if I made an identical copy of your car without actually taking it away from you, is that theft?

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Mushroom

Re: I don't know what else is wrong with this??

Excuse me Mr Judgemental but I can think of at least one browser that includes a torrent facility.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

So, please tell me what the thing is that person A had before person B copied a piece of music, that they no longer have afterwards? Because if there is no deprivation, then there is no theft.

Having been on the other side of people 'borrowing' IP before - a couple of times conversations have gone something like:

Them: Can we use a photograph you've taken on our website?

Me: If you pay for it.

Them: We don't actually have a budget for photography.

Me: Well, you can't use it then.

only to find they've gone and used it anyway, I'd say the deprivation would be of the revenue that would have been due had the IP been acquired correctly.

Having said that, I do think that the reaction of the CIAPC/police was rather heavy handed and that a more appropriate 'punishment' for a 9*-year old, assuming this hasn't been a regular occurence, would have been to have her attend online-safety and responsibility classes.

* torrentfreak says the attempted download actually happened in 2011, so the kid was probably only 8 years old when it happened.

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Facepalm

Re: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

No it isn't.

Theft is still the act of taking something without the owner's permission with the INTENT to PERMANENTLY DEPRIVE them of the benefits of the item. Intent is a vital part of criminal law. Intent is the difference between negligence, manslaughter, and murder.

Copyright infringment is not theft. Nor a criminal offence for that matter. Still wrong, but still not theft, no matter how blue your face gets, and how many times you say it.

Infringement is what is being discussed here. So please skip the emotional daily mail crap. It isn't the law's fault infringement is not as emotive a word as stealing.

And actually, you are accidentally correct. According to UK law at least, you described taking and driving away. Not theft of a car. Because the intent to deprive is next to impossible to prove.

Take a car, and bring it back, not theft. Not legal either, so you will still be up in front of the beak, but not for theft.

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Stop

Re: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

No - that's why the offence you're charged with is "Taking without the owner's consent".

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Anonymous Coward

Re: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

But then we just come back to the old question: if I made an identical copy of your car without actually taking it away from you, is that theft?

If it was a truely identical copy, you might well owe the car manufacturer a bunch of patent royalties!

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Sideshow Bob: "Do they give out Nobel prizes for attempted chemistry?"

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WTF?

Re: I don't know what else is wrong with this??

This is as cold and as cruel as it gets.

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Anonymous Coward

If you don't know, don't speak out of your ignorance.

My pre-installed linux laptop came with Transmission pre-installed as well. And yes, linux is exactly the system I would buy my little girl, because that effectively prevents her from getting every virus from the web into the home lan.

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FAIL

Re: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Right. Well, it depends.

In Brazil:

If (and only IF) You take my car without permission, and I find out WHILE You have it, then I can put the cops after You for stealing.

BUT

If (and only IF) You take my car, use it a few days and return it BEFORE I find out... then it is not theft. Yes, the law will want a few words with You - but not for stealing. I don't remember what was, but had something to do with "compensation due to wear and tear" and another little things.

At least, was this way about 18 years ago - when I was helping a girlfriend, who was at law school. I remember this very point, because I raised this very question: "What would happen if..."

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Re: This is a 9 year old CHILD...

Agree, but not with the "brutal, ham fisted handling by the police.". I don't think they like to do silly things like that.

What worries me is that they apparently have to do it anyway. In Finland the team is normally a man and a woman, mostly very well behaving, always armed. Arms are used so seldom that I think there is a high risk of them shooting themselves in the leg if they had to use them.

A rotten thing to have happened, not pleased.

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Headmaster

Re: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

She did take someone else's (intellectual) property. If it was done with provable intent to evade paying the license fee, then it was theft. Composers and performers, and perhaps even the horrible multinational companies to whom they sell their copyrights, do have a right to earn a living (and if composers couldn't sell their copyrights, how would they then earn a living? )

Of course it wasn't theft on other grounds. Firstly, a 9-year-old can't reasonably be expected to understand such fine points of the law. What's the age of criminal responsibility in Finland? It's 10 in the UK. Secondly, how can someone know that what is delivered when one clicks a link is delivery of stolen goods? That's as daft as saying you're a thief if you un-knowingly buy a packet of crisps from a shop run by a man who nicked a big box of them from Tesco. It's the person who knowingly posted the link to stolen intellectual property that is the thief.

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