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back to article English Defence League website 'defaced, pwned' by hacktivists

Hacktivists claim to have hacked and defaced the website of the far-right group English Defence League. The englishdefenceleague.org site remains unreachable on Monday morning following a claimed assault by ZHC (ZCompany Hacking Crew). The Pakistani hacking crew claims to have gained access to Gmail accounts owned by EDL …

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Mushroom

Linux = Insecure.

It runs Apache on Linux? Might as well have put out a welcome mat....

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FAIL

Re: Linux = Insecure.

Obvious troll is obvious

F - Try harder next time

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Linux = Insecure.

Oh do give it a rest. It's most likely that this is a configuration error giving a way in, just as if it were a Windows/IIS hosted web site that had been hacked.

Linux is pretty good, Windows is pretty good, del with it. Please stop with the tedious "the one I don't like must be shite", it stinks of just not being arsed to put in the effort to learn it. I have to put up with this all day at work from some of our linux developers, it's just as tedious from them too and they also continually show themselves up as not knowing what they're talking about. Go and learn Linux/UNIX, you'll embiggen your knowledge and make yourself a better IT guy. The same goes for Linux users who don't know Windows.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Linux = Insecure.

Sorry, but he's right.

I use Linux as my desktop operating system and I am a firm supporter of the UNIX model of operating systems, but Apache and PHP on Linux has a number of pitfalls when it comes to configuration and deployment. I wouldn't trust myself to set it up securely.

This doesn't mean that my default set-up is easily exploitable, but it does mean that someone might be able to leverage a web-app issue into a system shell.

Save the web.

Encourage nginx and static HTML.

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Mushroom

Re: Linux = Insecure.

More likely that Right Wing resistance to learning anything new and to paying enough wages to get someone knowledgeable had set in and they weren't going to pay anyone smart enough to secure the site, no matter what OS and web server the site's being run on.

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Shame it's just the website

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

These EDL pricks were in Norwich over the weekend. It was very clear that they are of a lower intelligence (some would say they fitted in) Although to be fair to the fine folk of the city even the flat landers have a high IQ compared to the EDL.

When the one hundred or so idiots began to march they actually went the wrong way, and when interviewed why they are marching the sample poll didn't have a clue. Now I am all for freedom of speech, it is afterall a human right so they can march all they want, but in expressing freedom of speech you have to accept that sooner or later your website will be pwned. And because I am all for freedom of speech I am happy to go on the record to congratulate the ZCompany on their fine work and point out to the EDL that a rag tag bunch of racist bigots doesn't scare anyone. Dinosaurs die out and so do twunts. If you have time then view the youtube clips - the comments are funnier than the actual clips.

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Joke

Re: Shame it's just the website

When the one hundred or so idiots began to march they actually went the wrong way, and when interviewed why they are marching the sample poll didn't have a clue.

Now is that because the marchers didn't know, or just that the samplers couldn't understand the grunting?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Shame it's just the website

There are videos on Youtube of various EDL supporters on marches being interviewed and they really don't know why they're marching.

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Re: Shame it's just the website

"There are videos on Youtube of various EDL supporters on marches being interviewed and they really don't know why they're marching."

Having had a fair bit of experience with the media when I was protesting against the Iraq war and in a few other cases (such as when I worked in the NHS), I can say confidently that most papers and the BBC, when interviewing a hundred people able to put a reasonable point across and a couple of people who prefer to rant incoherently, will normally choose to show the latter. Remember that massive image of a man in a balaclava kicking in the window of a McDonalds that was splashed across most newspapers some years ago? Over a million people marching in overwhelmingly peaceful protest, and that was the image that was on every front page.

The media shows what the media wants to show. Most people who have ever been interviewed by the mainstream media can tell you a story about that. Same goes for your YouTube videos. What is a critic going to post, an EDL member clearly putting a point across about how slaughtering animals without stunning because of a religious edict against it is wrong to them, or the bloke who went along because his mates were on it?

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Pint

Re: Shame it's just the website

"These EDL pricks were in Norwich over the weekend. It was very clear that they are of a lower intelligence"

Also vastly, vastly out-numbered by both counter-protesters (10-to-1!) and old Bill. And yet several of them still decided to try beating someone up in the street:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-20279687

Website hack, though? Frankly I'm surprised it's not being hosted by AOL or Go-Daddy!

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Happy

Re: Shame it's just the website

"There are videos on Youtube of various EDL supporters on marches being interviewed and they really don't know why they're marching."

Well Sheep herd together when they're scared and frightened but I suppose even Sheep at least probably know why they are all running as a herd!

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Re: Shame it's just the website

"Also vastly, vastly out-numbered by both counter-protesters (10-to-1!) and old Bill. And yet several of them still decided to try beating someone up in the street: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-20279687

I've just read your link and nowhere does it say that several (or any) EDL members beat someone up on the street (or anywhere else). All it says is that two people were arrested on "suspected public disorder offences" which is par for the course - the police often arrest some people at protests and then later let them go without charge. Another person it says, was arrested on "suspicion of assault". Nowhere does it say whether the alleged perpetrators were members of the EDL or members of the counter-protest that outnumbered them ten to one and assembled with the stated objective of stopping them getting to the City Hall. It could easily be the other way around to how you have assumed. There have been several instances where anti-EDL protestors have attacked EDL members. In one instance, attacking their bus.

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FAIL

Re: Shame it's just the website

"I've just read your link and nowhere does it say that several (or any) EDL members beat someone up on the street (or anywhere else)."

No, it doesn't. Sorry... for basing that entirely on eye-witness accounts relayed to me in the pub, two hours afterwards, in Norwich. Several EDL protesters were arrested for assaulting a shopper, who was nothing to do with the counter-demo.

"It could easily be the other way around to how you have assumed."

I assumed nothing. Whereas you assumed I was just assuming.

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Re: Shame it's just the website

"I assumed nothing. Whereas you assumed I was just assuming."

Well you wrote that EDL supporters had beaten up someone in the street followed by a colon and a link to a BBC news article. So I think I was right to infer that and you are wrong to say you weren't implying that the BBC article in some way substantiated your statement. If it was a rumour, then you should not have attempted to lend it more authority via BBC news stories.

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Joke

Deleted Facebook

If they have actually managed to delete a Facebook account then these guys are good. That's degree level stuff.

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EDL != Far Right

Pretty much see title. Do they have political views on economy, social welfare or other areas that can be (haphazardly) defined as Right or Left Wing? No. The flawed process in some people's minds is as follows:

1. EDL critical of Islam.

2. I think criticism of Islam is racist.

3. I like to say that racism is the preserve of the Right Wing because I am Left Wing.

4. Whales are mammals, therefore mammals are whales. Mammals are hairy.

5. Shave the whales.

And no, the EDL are not the BNP either.

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Re: EDL != Far Right

I'm met just as many racist left whingers as racist british nazi party types.

Its just the left whingers hide it away in their langauge a lot better.

Oh and most policies of the EDL/BNP are left wing!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: EDL != Far Right

I think it may be your process which is flawed. The only people who claim that people beleive that "criticism of Islam is rascist" are those trying to defend a rascist postion themselves. People criticise the EDL for being rascist because they spend their time on marches calling people niggers and pakis and making monkey gestures at black people as they go past.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: EDL != Far Right

The EDL aren't even critical of Islam, officially. Or weren't when they first started up. The were, however, always critical of Muslim extremism. The problem is that once you start wandering in to such terrotiry and voicing your opinion on a subject (you know, excercising that elusive freedom of speech we hear so much about), the proper neo nazi, American History X types jump on board and associate themselves with the group, thus shadowing the original point and causing much of the public to brand the entire organisaztion and its principals as 'racist'.

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Re: EDL != Far Right

All main stream media refer to the EDL as far right or extreme right. The term is dubious if you take it literally to mean "an exaggerated version of centre right politics". But nobody uses it to mean that. The term "far right" has been common and perfectly well understood for about eighty years. Even the centre right parties refer to the EDL as far right. Arguing that it is inappropriate is semantic guff.

The EDL are the natural inheritors of the BFP/NF/BNP: their membership is the same, their rhetoric is the same, their propensity for drunkenness and violence is the same. Their complete inability to ever form a coherent political movement or achieve any consistent electoral success is the same.

I have no idea if they have a policy on whales. I suspect it would depend on the colour or cultural background of the whale.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: EDL != Far Right

"most policies of the EDL/BNP are left wing!"

So they're Nationalists and Socialists?

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Re: EDL != Far Right

"The only people who claim that people beleive that "criticism of Islam is rascist" are those trying to defend a rascist postion themselves"

If I parsed the above correctly, then I disagree. It is quite possible to be critical of Islam without being racist. I don't think that really needs supporting here, but for example, I greatly dislike Islam's position on homosexuals, I dislike its practice of animals having to be concious and feeling when killed and that they must die through bleeding to death. Unless you're going to be incredibly strict on your interpretation and exclude vast bodies of Islamic tradition, then I also greatly dislike its prescriptions on the role of women. Yet I have actually dated people of races that are traditionally muslim though they themselves are non-practicing to the point of heresy, and got a long mostly fine. And I've spent time in muslim countries without feeling antipathy or contempt for the locals. Criticism of Islam is not by itself racist.

But it's certainly the case that when you criticize Islam, you will find people leaping to accuse of racism, bigotry, etc. It's unfortunate, but it does happen. I cannot accept that criticism of Islam is racist, else you rule out ever criticising Islam (or religion in general if you apply the principle fairly).

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Re: EDL != Far Right

"But it's certainly the case that when you criticize Islam, you will find people leaping to accuse of racism,"

If this is "certainly the case" then perhaps you can give some examples? It appears to be nothing more than a straw man.

I'm a secularist and a hard atheist. I criticize Islam quite regularly. I have a very simple trick to avoid being labelled a racist ... it's called not being a racist.

The reason groups like the EDL are labelled racist is because their members are overwhelmingly racist. It's not rocket salad.

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Re: EDL != Far Right

"But it's certainly the case that when you criticize Islam, you will find people leaping to accuse of racism,"

If this is "certainly the case" then perhaps you can give some examples?

Here's an example: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-17181861

Google will find plenty more examples of how "comment made against Islam" = racism (in the UK).

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Re: EDL != Far Right

"If this is "certainly the case" then perhaps you can give some examples? It appears to be nothing more than a straw man."

Well, outside of my own life which is personal experience and therefore you wouldn't accept it... Polly Toynbee springs to mind. She's a columnist for the Guardian. She wrote a critical piece about Islam and was then awarded "Islamophobe of the Year Award" and bombarded with accusations of racism.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: EDL != Far Right

"The EDL are the natural inheritors of the BFP/NF/BNP: their membership is the same, their rhetoric is the same, their propensity for drunkenness and violence is the same

I'm not convinced that you are right there. Growing up as a teenager in a world where the Internet was unheard of and the w3 did not exist, the likes of the National Front and Combat18 were historically far more intelligent, organised, active, inciteful and violent. Their membership campaigns of the 70's and 80's were highly targeted and orchestrated and running within schools and educational establishments from secondary and up. Fortunately, violent hate groups such as the National Front and Combat18 no longer demonstrate the same degree of cohesion and organisation and in general their appeal to youth groups has greatly diminished.

"Their complete inability to ever form a coherent political movement or achieve any consistent electoral success is the same."

This however I wholly agree with.

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FAIL

Re: EDL != Far Right

One example from nearly a decade ago of a person who was never actually labelled a racist? That's convincing.

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Re: EDL != Far Right

"One example from nearly a decade ago of a person who was never actually labelled a racist? That's convincing"

Hey, you said it was "nothing more than a straw man" and demanded examples. I could have given you examples from my own life but I decided to give you a notable one that I recalled and which is of public record. Another poster gave you another and I could spend the time finding other examples for you if you wish. But the examples given are sufficient to show that it does happen and that it is not "nothing more than a straw man". You have made your mind up on this anyway. If you genuinely can't see how easy it is to make an ad hominem attack on someone criticising Islam by blurring the boundary into calling them a racist and imagine that this doesn't happen whenever someone wants to disparage a critic (which is a frequent human tendency), then you wont be convinced by any number of examples. If you're genuinely interested in more examples, do a little reading online or try arguing against Islam in different social situations yourself. It will happen unless you happen to be of a non-White race yourself.

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Re: EDL != Far Right

"Hey, you said it was "nothing more than a straw man" and demanded examples"

And I'm still waiting for an example of "people leaping to label you racist". Whenever you're ready. Take your time.

"It will happen unless you happen to be of a non-White race yourself."

Re-read my original post. I'm a hard atheist and secularist and have been involved in public face-to-face discussions about the dangers of conservative religion - including Islam - for about thirty years. I've never been labelled a racist. Because I'm not a racist. Which part of this is confusing you?

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Re: EDL != Far Right

"And I'm still waiting for an example of "people leaping to label you racist". Whenever you're ready. Take your time."

Well as you don't (so far as I am aware), actually know me, I thought it would be more useful to provide you with an example of it happening to a public figure. If you now really rather I give you personal examples, well I had an argument with some people at a party last year about Islam and when I started saying what I didn't like about it, several of the people started ganging up on me and calling me a racist and wouldn't listen further. It offended their sensibilities to have someone criticizing and racist was a label that seemed close enough to them to use for someone who didn't like Islam. There you go, there's an example of it happening to me. But I stand by my first example of it happening to a public figure that you can verify as being a more useful counter-argument.

"Re-read my original post. I'm a hard atheist and secularist and have been involved in public face-to-face discussions about the dangers of conservative religion - including Islam - for about thirty years. I've never been labelled a racist. Because I'm not a racist. Which part of this is confusing you?"

None of it is confusing to me. I would just then say that your experience is atypical or you have been arguing in different situations (perhaps different demographics) than I have. And your logic that you've never been labelled a racist because you're not a racist, implies you think that someone cannot be falsely labelled as a racist. Do you really think that is so? You haven't answered my points in return, by the way.

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Facepalm

Re: EDL != Far Right

Oh I see. You can't provide a single verifiable example of somebody being labelled a racist for making a reasonable criticism of Islam and yet I'm the one whose experience is atypical? That makes absolutely perfect sense.

Apologies if I haven't addressed any of your points. Perhaps you could repeat them.

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Re: EDL != Far Right

"Oh I see. You can't provide a single verifiable example of somebody being labelled a racist for making a reasonable criticism of Islam and yet I'm the one whose experience is atypical? That makes absolutely perfect sense."

Please see my earlier post about the Guardian columnists experience for a "single verifiable example". FIrst you said that it was a strawman to say that critics of Islam get dismissed as racists and demanded an example. I gave one. Then you said the example was too old and you insisted it had to be an example from my experience. I pointed out that you didn't know me so I thought you'd have preferred a verifiable public example, but I gave you one from my own experience anyway. Now you say there's no "single verifiable example" and I refer you to my first one. This is absurd. You asked me to repeat points that you hadn't addressed. Well okay, here's one from earlier:

People routinely try to disparage and dismiss their opponents in a debate with ad hominems. (See pretty much any discussion on these forums for supporting evidence. ;) . It's a pretty easy ad hominem leap from someone being critical of a religion or culture found nearly exclusively amongst other races to themself, to painting that person as a racist. A perfectly imaginable scenario. I say I've had it happen to me and seen it happen to others, another poster agreed and posted a verifiable example from a public figure. I have done likewise. Yet you are insisting it hasn't happened to you and arguing that to say it happens is (your words) "nothing more than a straw man". So that was the point I feel you skipped over - why does the above sound scenario sound so preposterous to you that you will out of hand reject it when others state that it happens?

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Re: EDL != Far Right

"Please see my earlier post about the Guardian columnists"

... who, as I already pointed out, was never labelled a racist.

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Re: EDL != Far Right

"... who, as I already pointed out, was never labelled a racist."

No you didn't. You arbitrarily decided that the example was too old for you to accept. Go and read further. She says that she received lots of communications calling her a racist and likening her to Nick Griffen.

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Re: EDL != Far Right

Also, after skipping over my points, and then when this is pointed out, asking for me to repeat them for you, and my doing so, I would think you would have the courtesy to respond to them the second time around. After all, you asked for them to be re-stated (to save you scrolling up a page, presumably).

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Re: EDL != Far Right

Here's what I wrote:

"One example from nearly a decade ago of a person who was never actually labelled a racist? "

Apologies if you found that sentence too long to read all the way to the end.

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Re: EDL != Far Right

""One example from nearly a decade ago of a person who was never actually labelled a racist? " Apologies if you found that sentence too long to read all the way to the end."

But as they state themselves, they received many accusations of being a racst. This is a matter of public record. As to being able to read to the end, why do you repeatedly avoid the question I ask about why you think it is impossible that what I and others have said happens, happens when we've both given you examples (note there is more than one publically verifiable example been given to you despite you saying otherwise) and shown how naturally it can occur?

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Anonymous Coward

I wonder if the ist of funders will include the biggest one, MOSSAD'S Nachum Shifren?

Or just a list of council estate hooligans.

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Anonymous Coward

Never heard of the Jewish Branch of the EDL then? They cooperate closely with several jewish groups.

Oh no, that must mean they're part of the vast MOSSAD conspiracy!!!!!111eleventyoneomgwtf11!!

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FAIL

Would that be the Jewish EDL group led by Roberta Moore - a charming woman who openly supported Breivik and who is neither Jewish nor English?

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Anonymous Coward

Not Helpful

I don't see that this is a helpful action by the hacking crew, I can't see how someone visiting the EDL web site would look at what they've done and think "I hadn't really thought about this until now, I shall stop being a racist, homophobic, islamophobic, scumbag forthwith."

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Thumb Up

Re: Not Helpful

The defacing of the site - maybe not, but making names public could be a positive move. I'm sure EDL members will have no problem with it anyway, as I'm sure they'll be proud of their membership.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Not Helpful

sorry, I disagree - I don't think that it would be useful, i can't be verified, it wouldn't be acceptable for any other list like this to be released and with this sort of list there is a risk of attacks against the members.

That's not to say that I don't think we should take every opportunity to show them for the bigots they are, just every opportunity within the law.

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Re: Not Helpful

"I'm sure EDL members will have no problem with it anyway, as I'm sure they'll be proud of their membership"

Then you would be wrong. How would you like it if your place of work or prospective employer could look up your political history and use that as a basis for hiring you or not? Though I expect a double-standard along the lines of you would make an exception for groups that you personally don't approve of.

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Re: Not Helpful

Actually, furthermore, there is a physical risk to both people and property involved here. Members of the EDL have been attacked for their membership or attendence at events. Circulating a list around like this (and assuming it was actually genuine - good luck proving you're not supposed to be on it), is circulating a list of targets for some.

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Re: Not Helpful

tough shit. the EDL are a bunch of hate-filled, knuckle-dragging numpties. Their activists are the same thugs and shit-bags that support and work for the BNP/NF etc.

Those that don't support a harmonious law abiding society and preaching hate, causing violence, fear and division have no rights to complain about their rights. Hope they get the sort of justice they deserve - fuckers.

BTW this includes anyone in the above category, not just EDL.

Anyway back to the matter at hand. Ha-bloody-ha!

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Re: Not Helpful

The EU has recently ruled that you cannot discriminate against employees or potential employees on the basis of their political affiliation - there was an unfair dismissal case involving a BNP councillor.

There's obviously a small irony in a strongly anti-EU party using EU law to defend themselves. But the basic principle should apply regardless of which barmy fringe party one supports. If it isn't pertinent to your ability to do a job then it can't be used as a criterion for employment.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Not Helpful

@Some Beggar - You can discriminate in situations where your political beliefs would prevent you from being able to carry out your work - UK Police, for instance, are not allowed to be members of organisations like the NF/BNP.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Not Helpful

@Cocknee - While I do sympathise with your position, my concern is that if we don't protect these scum and give them the same rights as everyone else enjoys, we become the same as them. If we allow them to feel persecuted, it can only strengthen their resolve and probably their numbers.

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