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back to article BBC's Incurious George vows to 'calibrate systems' after Savile affair

The BBC's new director general provoked derision from MPs today after spending most of two hours explaining why he had failed to follow up information, as well as having to answer questions about BBC decisions. Entwistle came across a polite man, but no leader, and the picture of the BBC that emerged was more surreally …

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why has this taken so long ?

the information that newsnight's story was spiked , was a story in at least january 2012.. This was noted in last nights Panorama and can be confirmed with a bit of google.

So it's pretty sad for other media outlets to complain about "why didn't the bbc do anything" when they also did nothing this year until the itv documentary came out, which mainly was the same interviews initially taken in the newsnight investigation.

Obviously a bit of beeb bashing is much more fun than investigating Savile.

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Stop

20/20 hindsight

is a wonderful thing. The Thick of It at the weekend parodied the sanctimonious tone of these enquiries perfectly.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: 20/20 hindsight

Rock stars and bands must be breathing a sigh of relief ;)

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h3
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It is stupid wasting all this amount of police resources on stuff that happened so far in the past.

It seems to me instead of investigating and sorting out what is happening now the police are wasting time and resources on stuff that happened in the long since past.

(The grooming of the girls in Rochdale etc is far worse and happened relatively recently. That sort of thing should take priority over stuff that happened so far in the past).

For the past stuff you need only a single officer for each as 20 years vs 25 makes no difference. (Saville is dead nothing can affect him now.)

Every story on "Look North" last night was about police investigations into stuff that happened at least 20 years ago. (One missing person - the media gets the Police to waste resources sending a team to Kos (When it just happens to be pretty pleasant in terms of climate compared to here).

There is loads of missing people but the police decides to focus on what the media tells them to (To the detriment obviously of fairly current stuff.)

People going on about "Closure" irritates me as well. It is like people just say it because other people do.

Whereas the police don't investigate corruption in their own midst at all. (The Met is still corrupt always has been just switched from taking money from the mob to the newspapers.)

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If it happened back then...

...whats to say it isn't happing still? And the people who are still alive that were involved (helping supply children etc) should still be locked up for it.

And it should help stop this happening again, or at least make people feel more at ease in reporting such things without it being covered up.

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Law
WTF?

"(Saville is dead nothing can affect him now.)"

It's not for him... it's for the victims and to find out if anybody covered this crap up deliberately.

"That sort of thing should take priority over stuff that happened so far in the past"

I'm assuming they don't stop investigating other stuff. Organisations can occasionally multi-task.

"People going on about "Closure" irritates me as well. It is like people just say it because other people do."

You've clearly not been in a situation where you've needed closure on something then. When something this nasty has happened to you, and you've taken a massive step of reporting them (while already vulnerable before the attack, even more so after), and then to be ignored while the attacked lives their life happily... it's not right and it twists a person up inside. I only know of people who've needed closure, not experienced it myself - but the need seems to be for some sort of recognition that whatever has happened to them wasn't a minor thing, wasn't just in their head, and wasn't their fault. Closure seems to be the general term to sum that up.

In this case I'm assuming (if it's true, which it looks like it is) there needs to be some exposure and investigation despite the time and death of the alleged attacker, so that policies can change to avoid another celeb being protected by the organisation that should have been exposing his crime. They need to find out who is guilty of a cover up so it doesn't happen again.

But hey - by all means, rant away.. it's not like it involved vulnerable kids or anythi..... oh

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Trollface

Should've put Conrad Black in charge

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Mushroom

Nope...

...should have put Judge Dredd in charge > Judge, Jury and Executioner. All those who stood by and did nothing ARE guilty by their inactions, all those who assisted Savile MUST be identified, all those who took part MUST be identified - ALL MUST PAY FOR THEIR CRIMES!

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Too late to prosecute?

Savile himself is far beyond the reach of the law, of course, and I think both "closure" and stripping him of titles posthumously are empty gestures we shouldn't waste public resources on - however, it seems to be bigger than that. People apparently knew about it and covered it up - those could and should still be prosecuted if there's enough evidence, since that's a crime in itself. Moreover, if they were protecting his child abuse, were they protecting others doing the same thing: it's starting to look as if there could be (or have been) a child abuse ring going on in the BBC - in which case, there can be few cases more deserving of police attention, even now! Catch and nail everyone involved, make an example of them and make sure they can never do it again.

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Beginning of the end for the BBC?

Its (BBC) totally flat footed response to this, and its commercial enemies circling like sharks, lead me to believe.

There was at the very least negligence and a failure of duty of care by BBC managers at the time, and even plausibly some collusion with other BBC employee's over the crimes committed allegedly by JS.

Either way those who would dismantle the BBC have never had such an issue over which to attack it. if there is one thing the general public will never forgive its child abuse..

Having got that cynism out of the way the truth needs to be known, even at the expense of the BBC.

One thing where i would disagree with the article is over luis Theroux, his documentary with Savile completely failed to expose the man, or even a suspicion of what he was up to, the only moment in the whole thing that Jimmy allowed the act to slip was over his enforcer role when he was a nightclub manager, even then he painted himself as a protector of young women as i remember, all be it a volent one to any would be aggressor.

This guy ether fooled or intimidated everyone it would seem , including and not surprisingly his fellow creatives, egomaniacs, luvies at the BBC and the general public.

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Re: Beginning of the end for the BBC?

"Beginning of the end for the BBC?"

It will be a very, very long haul for the Beeb if they are to survive. As a part of the deal they will have to cut back from the ludicrous number of Radio stations and other functions that they maintain, and at our expense. They out distance the commercial press and this, under grounds of commercial fairness/competitiveness, is grossly unfair.

The BBC no longer properly act as the guardian of our culture and language (listen for a minute to their journalists consistently mispronouncing common English words and to their poor syntax), have bolloxed their competitions and documentaries so often that it is very clear that there is a core problem with standards, to scratch the iceberg of BBC complacency and cultural aimlessness. All of this must be reviewed as part and parcel of the post Savile process. It is clear now that something happened about 40 - 50 years ago and that it slowly filtered through much if not all of the BBC's functions, perhaps society as a whole, and is now visible on many fronts. Savile is only a part of the problem, and the BBC is not guarding the host culture whilst the host is itself not entirely well and in need of some reminders. Ideally the Beeb would once have done that, but is now so PC that it is uncertain whether keeping our culture alive is racist.

It will be a shame if the Beeb do not survive. When doing their job properly their investigative journalism, news reporting, documentary, film and theatre capabilities are world leading. I believe that the excess of cash bestowed on them by the last government has added to the harm done to them by taking on board the silly culture of the 1960s and 1970s, which can definitely be seen in the gross behaviour of Savile et al.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Beginning of the end for the BBC?

"It will be a very, very long haul for the Beeb if they are to survive"

WTF are you banging on about... I dont see how Savile has an relevance on the number of radio stations, ( or the number of female radio presenters) or your complaint that they dont talk ye olde english. English is a dynamic language and evolves overtime, its not stuck in the 1950s.

This is being blown up by rival companies and is also a very handy diversion from MP's expenses scene 2.....

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Re: Beginning of the end for the BBC?

"The BBC no longer properly act as the guardian of our culture and language (listen for a minute to their journalists consistently mispronouncing common English words and to their poor syntax),"

Can I just offer my compliments for your use of irony there, complaining about the BBC being unable to use language properly when your username refers to a Fast Show sketch whose premise was "Spanish people talk funny".

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FAIL

Re: Beginning of the end for the BBC?

"WTF are you banging on about."

Had you read the whole passage you would have known. I quote from myself:

"All of this must be reviewed as part and parcel of the post Savile process. It is clear now that something happened about 40 - 50 years ago and that it slowly filtered through much if not all of the BBC's functions, perhaps society as a whole, and is now visible on many fronts. Savile is only a part of the problem"

Next time you want to demonstrate a need for remedial reading and comprehension lessons kindly eff off down the hall.

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Re: Beginning of the end for the BBC?

"Can I just offer my compliments for your use of irony there, complaining about the BBC being unable to use language properly when your username refers to a Fast Show sketch whose premise was "Spanish people talk funny"."

Indeed, and I wear it like some would do a badge. Otherwise I am not entirely sure that I can see the point of your reply but, in sum, a handle, a personality, a person, these are not the truths and the truths in themselves are what matters, rather than any form of argumentum ad hominem, no matter how elliptical. Yes, you can congratulate me for an elliptical response if you wish. It's been a long day.

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FAIL

Re: Beginning of the end for the BBC?

I see that others have drawn similar conclusions in respect of a central theme that is responsible for much of the current Beeb ills: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/normantebbit/100186382/the-bbcs-inbred-culture-and-politically-correct-thought-have-ruined-this-valuable-institution-time-for-fresh-blood/

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Re: Beginning of the end for the BBC?

"or your complaint that they dont talk ye olde english."

I just noticed this 'misplaced' piece of preconception. I made no such complaint. It was all in your head. I oppose completely such barbarous mistreatment of the English language by 'Sloany' Beeb journalists who give us "Absaleeetleee" in place of 'absolutely', "reeeeeesarch" instead of "research", "aaahtillereeee" instead of artillery, and others who give us "allodofih" instead of 'a lot of it', "additz" instead of 'at its' "woddidis" instead of "what it is" (itself mangled English), and so on.

If you listen to Brian Glover in Alien3, in the canteen for example, you will hear English spoken properly, with a Yorkshire accent. I don't know what you mean by "olde english" (with or without a capital E), but it is certainly not what I am thinking of; what I have in mind is the complete opposite to the whiny, mangled, sometimes American English so beloved of Beeb journalists, presenters and whatnot. English-English, where people call fools 'arseholes' not 'assholes', and speak English using the letter 't' not the 'ledduh' 'd' that was parodied by 'smashy and nicey' in Spitting Image ( e.g., http://www.thetvlounge.co.uk/sweeney/viewtopic.php?f=33&p=10381502#p10381393 ). Goddid?

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Re: Beginning of the end for the BBC?

I don't think the Beeb has been the bastion of "proper" English (aka Received Pronunciation or whatever the term is) for years if not decades now. I've numerous times heard their announcers refer to things such as "blaccinations" or "terraced attacks".

Mind you, nothing trumps the quiet Sunday afternoon on Radio 4, when a neswreader opened the bulletin with "Israel has been invaded by lesbian forces". Whatever was he thinking?

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Happy

Maybe the Beeb

are saving the 'Best Bits' for Christmas DVD

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@h3

I think the point of investigating it is to find out why and whilst Saville may be dead, you have to find out why it was covered up.

Its probably a good idea you see to

a) maybe get the other people who are still around and so should be prosecuted and find out if they are involved more deeply than just covering it up.

B) stop them from letting it happen again, (or possibly even continue doing so since it must have taken some organisation.

Also closure I can't help think those who were abused would like some justice, I'm pretty sure if you have been abused you'd feel like you'd want those responsible/ complicit in it to to pay.

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The Scum

I've noticed tht the Scum newspaper are going in for their typical, self-promoting "soundbite journalism" over this one; they're demanding that Savile be stripped of his knighthood and OBE, an empty and pointless gesture as both of these are lifetime awards which automatically cease to exist at the bearer's death, regardless.

It's like insisting that Savile Row in the West End be renamed because of this scandal. To Paul Gadd Street?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The Scum

When future generations look back on this story, surely one point of the whole business is the way people trade on their 'honours' like OBE and knighthood. Any attempts to rewrite history by removing these from the public record after death would be a worrying development. What next, shall we remove the title King from Richard III?

Far better for the media to stop using these arcane UK titles for individuals still living, except where the title is relevant for a specific topic. Stop pandering to the egos of the self-serving.

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Unhappy

Incurious George is not alone

I'm sure that more was known than the BBC choose to report. But in slightly different fields, the "I knowed nuffink" defence has been done to death by the Murdochs and the their henchpeople, and by many bankers before select committees, and has proven very useful. Maybe their is a need for a law on "culpable ignorance".

In other fields, it is not uncommon for the heavy hitters in many organisations (successful salesmen, senior executives, high billing partners, high earning traders) to find that so long as their power/success lasts, the organisation will accept any behaviour, and do its utmost to sweep the evidence under the carpet. And here the politicians should remember how they tried to do just this to avoid the publication of expenses data.

I doubt I'm alone in thinking that the BBC management know there's a lot more to this than the case of the scruffy, tracksuit wearing perv.

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FAIL

Beeb bashing...

...by Orlowski. Who'd have guessed?

Andrew, you should also be asking why Thatcher didn't ask more questions when Savile was a regular Xmas guest of hers at Chequers.

You also realise that questioning Savile's behaviour was much like asking if Mother Teresa watched porn, don't you?

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Sadly amusing

This whole affair is a perfect illustration of the average human being's strong desire to see everything as pure black and white. Savile, who always struck me as a bit of a self-advertising clown, was gradually built up to the same general level as Princess Diana. Once exalted, nothing bad could be said (or even thought) about him. The community - the nation - had chosen him as A Good Person, and that was that.

Similarly, nothing good can be said (or even thought) about Adolf Hitler, Stalin, Osama bin Laden, or Mrs Thatcher.

Reality is not like that at all. It's always useful to recall the wise words of Alexandr Solzhenitsyn in “The Gulag Archipelago”:

"If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being".

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Que?

Why would anyone confuse the BBC's director general (traditionally a complaisant political hack) with a journalist?

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Entwistle had failed to enquire, or ask others to enquire

The fact that he needed to know was not known at the time that the now known need to know was known, and therefore those that needed to advise and inform him perhaps felt that the information that he needed as to whether to inform the highest authority of the known information was not yet known, and therefore there was no authority for the authority to be informed because the need to know was not, at that time, known or needed

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Anonymous Coward

I'm not sure

Why has the government decided that the BBC should have taken over investigating/prosecuting a dead man, where the CPS and the police found nothing to charge or interview when he was alive?

I find it hard to believe that over 40 years, if it was well known that JS was a perv, that none of the newspapers could not have found something, and that MI5 would not have informed Mrs Thatcher prior to her Christmas invites to JS about him.

This either means that JS was either very very careful, or he was just one of a group of pervs that were well known and in 'Power' either party government, NHS,civil service or other establishment organisation.

I don't see how it could have been kept quiet, with so many hundreds coming out of the woodwork, without the help of the power of the above. Smells a bit Dunblane cover up to me, though I guess "they" won't be able to hide the reports for 80 Years this time.

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Holmes

Hanlon's Razor

Never attribute to malice, that which can be adequately explained by incompetence.

There didn't need to be a cover-up. Just enough people keeping their mouths shut -- and that's easily explained anyway. Falsely accusing someone of rape is potentially no less damaging for them than actually raping them, especially when they have a lot to lose; and non-rapists vastly outnumber rapists.

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