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back to article Apple to drop chip-baking partnership with Samsung?

Apple is planning to shift production of its ARM-based microprocessors from Samsung to the Taiwanese chip-baking giant TSMC as early as next year, according to a report by the China Economic News Service (CENS). The report, spotted by MacRumors, cites CitiGroup Global Markets analyst J.T. Hsu as saying that TSMC will be Apple's …

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Anonymous Coward

Cut off nose to spite face

Note that Apple have reportedly already dumped Samsung as a supplier of batteries and displays. Combined with their dumping of Google Maps for a far-inferior alternative, it really looks to me like they are getting rid of suppliers whom they've fallen out with even when the consequences are negative for their own users. This is not a good choice. Is this what Jobs meant by his "thermonuclear" reaction to Android?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Cut off nose to spite face

NO, they are clearing the decks and getting ready for a massive patent onslaught.

By moving away from Samsung they will not be beholden to their arch enemies.

That and they can get it cheaper elsewhere.

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Joke

Re: Cut off nose to spite face

This action might just result in CPUs that glow a bit green when they come out of suspend, or maybe purple when you hold them the wrong way.

Never mind, I'm sure they'll still sell like sliced bread*.

Doesn't sliced bread have a patent infringing form factor?

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Anonymous Coward

The fastest phone in the world, the issue with Maps isn't stopping or holding back their sales is it?

Maps can be sorted out, it'll take time though, but if Maps had not been a disaster.......

I'd be more worried about getting that Promised Android update, next year perhaps unless you have to buy a new phone for it.

Still gives people something to moan about, but strangely, most of the moaning doesn't come from iPhone users. Now that's telling.

Go hit that downvotes button show me your jealousy baby show me your jealousy!

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Anonymous Coward

@AC 19:13

Down voted, not because of jealousy, but because aside from what you said about "Maps can be sorted out" the rest of your post is rubbish. You want updates without carrier interference, you get a Nexus. Fastest phone in the world? That'd be the S3.

As for maps, that just demonstrates everything that is wrong with the iPhone and it has nothing to do with the specs/capability of the device itself. It has everything to do with Apple having complete control over it while having no problem with shafting it's customers to spite it's competitors.

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Anonymous Coward

Spite?

>That and they can get it cheaper elsewhere.

Don't think it's anything to do with 'that'. It's simply about profit - labour and production costs are considerably cheaper in Taiwan - Samsung knock out the A5/A6s in their Texas plant....

Apple will save money, it's not their nose or Samsung's either - their lossy US manufacturing is about appeasing the protectionist tendancy through investment in US workers and jobs.

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Anonymous Coward

@AC 20:30

You are a jealous Anonymous Coward and you deserve a down vote even mentioning S3 which fails to navigate properly and watching the level people go to shut down services running to prevent gratuitous advertisements being constantly displayed across their Galaxy is a joke and a half in itself. Did you buy a phone or did you buy a lifetime subscription to endless ads?

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Anonymous Coward

Here a Troll, there a Troll, everywhere a Troll Troll

Who are these Apple Hating Trolls? Have you considered this? Ever?

Simple, they are predominantly male, aged between 13 and 29, own a middle of the road Android device. Their computing skills, if you can call them skills are virtually limited to switch it off switch it on, reinstall. They have poor people skills, most still live at home and spend hours online with 'friends' on Facebook. They have limited literacy and numeracy skills and low self esteem, they have low paid or commission only jobs. A few are lower skilled junior managers, probably by default. They drive round in small 8 year old hatchbacks. They obsess about other people's success and how unfair it is. They put £20 a week on the lottery in the hope of a better life.

They are emotionally backward, lacking empathy having spent too many hours playing computer games alone. Their parents tell them and anyone else, how clever they are, spending all that time working on the computer in their room, ' he was up all night, ' they crow ' he's inventing a new computer thing'. He was but he was watching porn. The parents are happy that he doesn't get up till 4pm. Their only concern is that he hasn't got a girlfriend, they worry he is gay. He'll be a millionaire next year he will they say to console themselves.

To boost his self esteem, he logs on to this site and spouts puerile comments, bigs himself up claiming to be a high earner and knows all about technology.

Sad isn't it.

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Holmes

Re: Here a Troll, there a Troll, everywhere a Troll Troll

Whereas all Apple fans are the true friends of dorothy - the obvious "elephant in the room" reason prettiness matters above such trivia as dodgy antennas, comedy maps and - what's this latest one? - oh yes, purple photos.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Here a Troll, there a Troll, everywhere a Troll Troll@ Bob Vistakin

Bob, mate, your last 17+ posts on Apple articles have been uncomplimentary and predictably puerile and without content save for the off YouTube links you put in.

The article appears to describe you and you walked right into it didn't you.

You say nothing of consequence, except 'apple has peaked', 'And long may this piss taking continue', 'And long may this piss taking continue' 'The iPhone5 can just get lost'

Etc etc etc.

AC@ Here a Troll has described you to the letter!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Here a Troll, there a Troll, everywhere a Troll Troll@ Bob Vistakin

@ Bob Vistakin.

Give him a break he's a scouser.

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Anonymous Coward

FFS...

Demonstrates everything that's 'wrong' with Apple? Open Safari. In the URL bar type maps.google.com, press the go button and wait a few seconds. Google fucking Maps.

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Mushroom

Re: Here a Troll, there a Troll, everywhere a Troll Troll@ Bob Vistakin

Eeek! That "dorothy" observation really hit a nerve!

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Re: FFS...

The website does satnav now? Or works offline? Wake me up when you catch up to Google and Nokia.

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I find it odd that sales are an argument against criticisms - the sales of Windows never stopped Apple fans criticising it for years.

But yes, maybe that's why Apple remain a 3rd place company.

And not this nonsense about Android updates - I'd have thought that the Apple maps fiasco would finally show that it's better that companies take the time to test new updates for each device, rather than rushing it out just for a marketing headline. But I severely misunderestimated the ability for Apple fans to continue to twist everything to praise Apple.

I couldn't care less whether I have the very latest revision of an OS, because what I have works fine. I mean, I don't see people here saying we should all run out and get Windows 8 the moment it's released, when 7 works fine. The bottom line is we get features years before Apple users anyway.

I mean sure, maybe if we had to wait years to get basic feature-phone level functionality like apps or copy/paste, we'd be desperate to upgrade to the latest OS version ASAP too. But when the OOTB functionality is damn good anyway, who cares?

And sorry, most of the moaning about Android updates comes from Apple fans like you, who think it's a valid argument.

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Re: @AC 20:30

Your post is entirely nonsense, but I was particularly confused about the claim about ads - sorry, no such thing.

OTOH, when I watch TV, I do see an Apple logo in virtually every US TV programme, due to the ridiculous amounts of money they are spending on product placement, in an attempt to appear popular. Then there's the constant "get this on your iphone/ipad" (that most of us don't have), or the free advertising for Apple in the media.

If you hate ads, then Apple are the number one worst culprit. It's sad the way they've infected a large amount of American TV.

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Re: @AC 20:30

OTOH, when I watch TV, I do see an Apple logo in virtually every US TV programme, due to the ridiculous amounts of money they are spending on product placement, in an attempt to appear popular.

Not to mention that when you finally get a break from the product placement, the adverts start, and Oh look, there they are again!

In fairness though, the other phone companies are getting particularly annoying with their ads too.

I find it particularly rich an Apple fan talking about Ads and privacy when Apple have defaulted iOS 6 users into targeted advertising, and then not had the decency to put the Off (Oh, sorry, semantics, On) switch under Privacy - http://www.businessinsider.com/ifa-apples-iphone-tracking-in-ios-6-2012-10.

Doesn't mean Google's any better, but get off your high horse for fuck sake. You spent a fortune on a shiny i-device that has been released with quite a number of faults, and with very little incremental benefit over the previous release. You then come onto a forum to launch a broad Ad Hominem against fandroids. Personally, if anything, I'd say you were pretty indicative of the person you were describing.

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Anonymous Coward

@Bob Re: Here a Troll, there a Troll, everywhere a Troll Troll

Not even prettiness... As long as it has a half-eaten fruit on it somewhere that they can flash to the crowd in Starbuck's, they're happy. Doesn't even matter what it looks like otherwise

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Anonymous Coward

Re: FFS...

To to the AppStore, click on the search button, type Waze in the search bar, press install, type in your password. Satnav.

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Bronze badge

Re: Cut off nose to spite face Gauss Gun Enema?

http://koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2012/10/133_122098.html

Seems Apple will get NONE of that $1.05 billion, and may have to forfeit the bond money to Samsung's lawyers and other contingencies.

As these bans are reversed, domestically and abroad, Apple will enjoy hollowed, not hallowed, victory. Dumping Samsung and related chaebol or non-chaebol Samsung partners is the apple way of depriving Samsung of revenue stream.

Is this business Karma, again?

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Joke

Re: Cut off nose to spite face Gauss Gun Enema?

This post has been deleted by a moderator

Ach, did I miss out on some light entertainment? I'm assuming it was a post full of vitriol and perhaps some self-entitlement?

El Reg, before you delete those posts, could you email me a copy? A lot of them make me laugh (and not always bitterly)

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Anonymous Coward

Fastest phone is the one with the most optimal software, OS and compiler software.

Linux, Android and iOS will all be using GCC which generates slower code than Microsoft's compiler. Intel's compiler is even faster.

In terms of speed (fastest first).

1. Windows Phone.

2. iOS

3. Android.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Here a Troll, there a Troll, everywhere a Troll Troll

Some of them are paid by Google to rubbish anything but Android, which explains why they take such huge interest in Apple posts.

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FAIL

re. faster

Fastest phone is the one with the most optimal software, OS and compiler software.

er, not quite. Hardware is still very important and Apple has very good hardware. The CPUs in the I-Phone 5 are pretty much on a par with other phones but it has 3 GPUs which puts it head and shoulders above the rest in graphics benchmarks.

But it also matters what you're testing for: web page rendering needs good single-thread performance which is why Apple again but also x86-based systems come out top.

The compiler is important but to pretend that Apple only use GCC when they have contributed heavily to LLVM, CLANG and OpenCL is worse than disingenuous. In fact being able to shift workloads so effectively onto the GPU is one of the things which makes Apple devices so impressive in the power/battery life comparisons. Microsoft is late to this particular party and Intel doesn't do GPUs that come anywhere close to PowerVR, Mali, nVidia, etc. in power/battery life.

The OS is important but also the amount of native versus managed code that apps are allowed to run. IIRC WinRT is all managed, presumably apart from MS only apps, so like pure Dalvik apps there will be a performance hit due to the VM, though mileage may vary depending on how good the JIT is. Apple does not allow other the browsers that use the Webkit engine to access hardware acceleration (GPU) for scrolling and stuff but javascript benchmarks should be comparable.

I don't own, and don't intend to own, an Apple phone or tablet but I'm prepared to recognise classy hardware for what it is. As it stands the I-Phone 5 is possibly 1 generation ahead of the competition (better GPU performance and power/weight ratio). I don't expect that advantage to last more than six months but that has never really matter to Apple's customers.

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Joke

Re: Here a Troll, there a Troll, everywhere a Troll Troll

You can get paid for rubbishing Apple? Just show me where to sign!

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WTF?

Re: @AC 20:30

I got an S3 (i am replying on it right now) and the maps on it are the best i ever used. I got a Tomtom for my bike and its crap compared to this phone. It gets a really fast lock, it can put up with a lot of city obstructions and it plotted me around some roadworks about 2 seconds after missing the closed turn.

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Mushroom

Re: Here a Troll, there a Troll, everywhere a Troll Troll

It's time to and anonymous comments on smartphone stories. If people want to post crap about different platforms, they need to stand up and be counted.

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Linux

Painting themselves into a corner

Apple are becoming an irrelevance:

Their iOS is a poor copy of Android (and they know it). Just wait for the Google legal onslaught.....

OSX is a bug-ridden mess and has so many bad decisions built into it that it's unrecognisable from the stable, secure BSD that it's built on. Foot, meet bullet.....

Microsoft almost have a viable product again. Windows 8 is nearly very good - certainly good enough to bury the Apple offering.

The current crop of Linux distros make OSX look positively old-fashioned....

Now that it's trivial to run OSX on utility hardware (the Hackintosh route), there's no reason to buy any Apple product.

The Samsung tablets and mobile phones make the Apple offerings look very average....

Goodbye Apple. Game Over.

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Joke

Hey now, get your facts straight!

Right, I know you're trying to troll, but get it right! You claim "OSX is a bug-ridden mess and has so many bad decisions built into it that it's unrecognisable from the stable, secure BSD that it's built on." This is clearly wrong!

OSX was built atop the Mach kernel, not BSD's. It merely has a BSD-compatible POSIX layer and BSD subsytem on on top.

Now, write it out a hundred times. If it's not done by sunrise, I'll cut your balls off.

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Re: Painting themselves into a corner

i'd say iOS is a slightly glitzy copy of PocketPC. In 2004 i had a PocketPC device that could connect to the work Exchange server, watch movies, have rounded corners, make phonecalls and multitask. Apple just rebadged it badly with big icons for stupid rich hipster wannabees.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Painting themselves into a corner

Their iOS is a poor copy of Android (and they know it). Just wait for the Google legal onslaught.....

-----------

Except the main difference is when you buy the latest iDevice you know you will be able to run the latest iOS. With Android most phones are a version behind before they've even hit the stores. Even now we've got people announcing phones with Ice Cream Sandwich.... but Jellybean is coming right! They've just gotta get your money first....

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Painting themselves into a corner

>Except the main difference is when you buy the latest iDevice you know you will be able to run the latest iOS.

Don't you mean, 'know you HAVE TO run the latest iOS' - Apple support forumes are full of loyal fanbois screaming for downgrade support which is incoming, but there will no such option for iPhone5ers

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Re: Painting themselves into a corner

If iOS is a copy of Android because it has lifted some good ideas (the notification area being the most obvious) then Android is a copy of iOS for the same reason (eg, pinch to zoom). Neither is inherently in the wrong, and I think it's really only ever cited as an issue because Apple insists on being so litigious.

OS X isn't built on BSD. It also isn't bug ridden.

History says Windows 8 won't bury Apple. Windows 95 and 98 were lightyears ahead of System 7 in a lot of important areas — preemptive multitasking and memory protection sound like tedious tech wedge issues but substantially improve the user experience. Regardless, Apple survived.

The Linux distros don't make OS X old fashioned any more than the Apple Magic Track Pad or whatever it's called makes mice look old fashioned. Simply being different isn't the test.

Hackintoshes are a solution for, what, the most technical 5% of people?

Samsung and Apple phones and tablets are basically indistinguishable. The fact that developing software for them is common now and that tech types like yourself therefore ascribe greater significance to brands hasn't much changed how people pick their devices; nobody outside Internet forum types thinks of either as a great satan. Ironically it's the people that most complain about Apple users slavishly following the company that most strongly define themselves by a brand — it just happens that they're defining themselves in opposition. In any case they're a tiny subset of society. Based on the value proposition Apple probably deserves some segment of the market — say 10% or maybe even 15% — and will probably end up profitably maintaining that segment.

Apple has almost $100bn in cash reserves. That's the biggest cash hoard in corporate America, and more than twice that of Microsoft. Even if nobody buys another Apple product or service ever again, they're going nowhere for a very long time.

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Re: Painting themselves into a corner

Except the main difference is when you buy the latest iDevice you know you will be able to run the latest iOS

If you want bleeding edge, you buy a Nexus, if you're not worried you go for something else. Either way, you have a choice, with Apple you don't get that luxury.

I won't even go into flashing ROMs on the basis that Joe Public wouldn't bother, but then most of them also couldn't give a fuck whether they're running iOS 3 or iOS9000. That is, unless they actually used and liked Google Maps and have upgraded to iOS6.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Painting themselves into a corner

Rubbish. PocketPC was using all manner of bad design decisions that made finger control near impossible.

Perhaps you aren't aware of the Apple Newton? it was released in 1993 which is about 3 years prior to the PocketPC.

PSION were some of the first PDAs but the Newton was one of the more advanced ones.

There was also the Atari Portfolio in 1989. All way before PocketPC.

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Vic
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Re: Hey now, get your facts straight!

> OSX was built atop the Mach kernel, not BSD's

BSD is more than a kernel. I'd say the OP's point wasn't far off...

Vic.

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Re: Hey now, get your facts straight!

OSX was built atop the Mach kernel, not BSD's. It merely has a BSD-compatible POSIX layer and BSD subsytem on on top.

Not this inaccurate nonsense again. Mach was developed from the BSD kernel - it simply applied some micro kernel principles to it by moving some subsystems out of kernel space. The VM subssytem developed for Mach even went back into several of the BSD kernels - that's how little the core of both Mach and the original BSD kernels differed.

The userland of NeXTSTEP was BSD, and was then made POSIX compatible, not the other way around. The initial version was based on 4.3BSD, wasn't updated for years. It was brought into a post 4.4BSD world with code from NetBSD and more recently FreeBSD, after NeXT was bought by Apple.

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Re: Painting themselves into a corner

OS X isn't built on BSD.

Yes it is built on BSD. NeXT wrote their own graphical interface and wrapped a lot of stuff in an Objective-C framework, but the kernel and userland were derived from 4.3BSD and Mach (which was itself derived from 4.3BSD). Apple have updated the NeXT codebase with newer code from NetBSD and FreeBSD, and it's often easier to port software to OS-X that was written for a BSD than for Linux.

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Facepalm

Hope so

What could possible go wrong? The recent ongoing comedy of them ditching an essential component in their toys because they could do better wasn't anything to worry about, no siree.

And as their customers all chant each day: "Nanny knows best."

"Siri - modern cities such as London are often described as a concrete jungle for good reason. Do you know a secret place there where I can escape to and enjoy nature's greenery at its best?"

http://theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com/post/33227357714/some-parts-of-clapham-london-appear-to-be

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Holmes

Re: Hope so

Did you check this one? I guess not. There is no green rectangle at Fitzwilliam Rd./Offerton Rd. any more.

You spotted the one example which is displayed correctly..

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Anonymous Coward

are they bothered?

the question to ask is, "are Samsung bothered if apple take the chip production to another chip fabrication plant?"

First of all, the fabrication plant is in Texas that makes apples chips will have additional capacity to make other chips. I doubt they will loose any profit. They may even chose to pull the plug on the plant and switch fabrication to wherever is cheaper...

The next question to ask is "will apple pass on the cheaper production costs of producing the chips in china to the customer or will they just throw it on the top of the enormous pile of cash they already have?"

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Go

Re: are they bothered?

Samsung actually needs that fab capacity to produce silicon for their own retail products, which are ramping sales volume unexpectedly. Since the margins on that are far higher than Apple offers for wholesale chip fab, Sammy probably couldn't be happier.

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Re: are they bothered?

Samsung's attitude is probably similar to IBM's indifference when Apple dropped the PowerPC processor. Jobs was demanding IBM develop smaller processors that ran cooler and were suitable for laptops rather than servers. Since Apple only bought a tiny fraction of the chips that IBM were producing it didn't make sense to divert development resources into making the chips suitable for laptops.

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Go

It always pays ...

to have alternate suppliers / sources around.

Ask the military, it's how they avoid getting their testicles squeezed at quotation time.

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h3
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This is a bad idea for Apple unless they can get TSMC to invest as much as necessary to keep up with the latest processes.

http://eandt.theiet.org/magazine/2012/05/big-22nm-gamble.cfm

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Something Does Not Add UP

A few months back Samsung plunked down a few Billions for either New or Expanded facilities in Texas. We were told that this was to build Apple chips. Are we now saying that they did this without guarantees from Apply and that Apply will just pull the plug and move elsewhere.

Someone enlighten me please. One plus One is not giving me two on this one.

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Holmes

Re: Something Does Not Add UP

Apple just hates Samsung and wants to kill it (it's the same as when Bill Gates hated Philippe Kahn personally and wanted to squeeze Borland from market). Apple methodically tries to destroy its main competitor by cutting as much of its profits as possible (remember the Punic Wars -- never pay money to your enemy).

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Devil

Re: Something Does Not Add UP

And most probably, Apple intentionally made Samsung to believe that it will order more chips to be manufactured, while at the same time secretly trying to move production to TSMC in the hope that Samsung loses billions of dollars building unneeded factories.

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