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back to article Ballmer aims chair at Apple after Windows package miss

Steve Ballmer is eyeing up an Apple-style future for Microsoft of device manufacture and support, just as he’s been personally dinged for underperforming in one of the company’s cash cows: Windows. Microsoft’s chief executive has evangelised devices as the future opportunity for Redmond in his annual letter to shareholders, …

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Anonymous Coward

Microsoft needs to remain the more "open" choice in terms of being able to put their software onto lots of different devices.

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WTF?

What?

Is this article really telling us that Windows and Windows Live president Steven Sinofsky receives 6.5x the salary+bonus of Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer? What? Really?

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WTF?

Re: What?

Ah, I see, Sinofsky got most of that in stock. The Reg article could have made that clearer.

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FAIL

I'd be the first to admit, my business skill are shite - I'm a code monkey at heart.

But at a guess, I'd say I'd be just as good as Ballmer at running Microsoft into the ground. I'd quite happily ruin Microsoft for 1/2 of what he's getting.

So if a new Captain of the Titanic is required, just let me know and I'll start packing my bags...

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I love Ballmer. This industry will be so much less funny when he's gone.

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Mushroom

It's interesting to see both these former titans

as now a couple of headless giants still lumbering around taking a pop at each other.

That's 'interesting' as in the famouse curse, 'May you live in interesting times'...

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<sarcasm>Can someone give me an address where I send a few Pounds to help them through this tough time?</sarcasm>

Mate of mine is living in his car after being unemployed for close to a year and I am supposed to feel sympathy for MS execs?

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Facepalm

Rather pointless comparison, but no, I don't think that article asked for your sympathy anywhere. Merely reported on the remuneration packages of the top brass at an IT company, generally seen as a view of how well or badly a company is doing currently.

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Linux

If MS go the Apple route

Then it's a gift to Linux (or Linux derivative).

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Re: If MS go the Apple route

Unfortunately the door has been open for years for *nix-based solutions to enter the consumer/SME market, but the learning curve and sheer bloody-mindedness of most of the FS/OS effort pretty much prevents any significant take up.

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Re: If MS go the Apple route

But if Microsoft want to control the hardware their software is deployed on to a greater extent, it will restrict the freedom they have historically given to OEM's. A more compelling reason then presents itself for OEM's to move to *nix based solutions.

Could prompt the first significant landgrab for *nix in the consumer/SME space. If people got used to using popular *nix based productivity tools in the office, who knows what could happen next.

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Boffin

Re: Linux et al

First thing the FOSS movement needs to do in order to be in a position to gain any significant market share is to engage some decent technical authors. The documentation for FOSS products is universally horrible, if it exists at all, in my experience.

Once that's done, we can start talking about usability labs.

(FTOAD, I use FOSS extensively myself, trading my time taken working around the deficiencies against the cost of commercial software. End users and corporate IT departments will never be willing to make the same trade-off.)

GJC

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Facepalm

Re: Linux et al

Like windows help is sorted....

I rarely use the software help alone but do expect users to give it a go before picking up the phone, "how do i do x?" - well what did the help file say when you typed that in? don't know, (unspoken- your extension is less key presses).

Part of me can't blame them as often I've made my weary way to the PC for some "Obviously simple issue" only to find the MS help file completely mute on the question and that is stuff we've paid for from a massive company rolling in money.

The trouble with FOSS is few are rewarded for fixing the help and the bar is set so low.

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Re: Linux et al

Some barriers to Linux taking off for casual/business users:

1, industry-specific software not being released for it, CAD, Adobe, etc

2, Poor documentation- you visit the webpage for a piece of software, and are greeted with changelogs and wikis... fine if you want to help develop it, but its not user friendly

3, Software being giving jovial names that give no hint as to what it does: Spot the odd one out: MS Paint, PhotoShop, The Gimp. Again, not user-friendly.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Linux et al

What kind of twat signs his posts

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Re: Linux et al :Dave 126

There is that ,and the sheer difficulty it is to install stuff.

Tried using (Desbian) Linux 2 months ago as people are saying it got easier, and more user friendly...

After 1-2 hours of typing in commands to install ONE program(I even had a step by step guide) I gave up, and not started the box up since... I got sick of swapping repositories rebuilding lists back and forth.

Until they make it as easy to just DL, and install a program as windows (or even DOS) I hate to say Linux will not make it big.

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Re: Linux et al :Dave 126

Millions of people are using Linux everyday even though they do not know it. Your router, Android, most of the internet backbone, your TV, tills, most mainframes etc. English is English and French is French, they are both languages but achieve things in different ways.

Give Opensuse a try (my own favourite) as it supports 1-click install.

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Meh

Re: Linux Jovial Names

Skype anyone?

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Newsflash: Desktop Linux is Dead

Unless you're a computer geek, you won't see Linux on the desktop. Regular users don't like it because it's too unfamiliar, power users don't like it because it's too different from Windows and all their knowledge is nullified, vendors don't want to ship it on their boxes because it sits on shelves, corporations don't want to use it because it requires hiring/training staff.....

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Re: Newsflash: Desktop Linux is Dead

Yep and with both the GNOME team and KDE team taking the piss in the last 5 years its not really a surprise. Still Linux might not own the desktop but it sure owns your phone.

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Mushroom

Re: Signing

This twat does, thanks. I also refuse to post anonymously, because I believe in standing behind my views.

Now do fuck off, there's a good chap.

GJC

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Happy

Re: If MS go the Apple route

Android is a Linux derivative. I'm running an Android desktop PC at home; it cost me $65 including shipping (plus $12 to get something nice-looking as a case for it to live in), uses 14 watts of power (vs. the 750 watts burned in my Windows 7 desktop PC) and serves the majority of my computer needs. for World of Warcraft, yes, I still need Windows. I wonder how long, however.

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Stop

Re: Linux et al :Dave 126

Plain Debian is junk, a pretty bad choice if you want easy, user-friendly installation - try Ubuntu, it's more for your crowd.

That being said I think installing programs with their dependencies via yum in linux is a FAR FASTER and EASIER deal than installing any Windows software - and I'm a primary W7 user, CentOS/RHEL is only my secondary choice (mostly server except when time-by-time I load up the latest Fedore in a VM to see where is it).

The only PITA issue I can see for a potential converts is to find WTF you want to install (name of the package) and the related repo configs if needed - those could be improved, no question about it but this is why you should start with Ubuntu. :P

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Go

Bloody forums

Won't let me upvote Geoff's comment more than once!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Signing @GJC

Highly amusing, here's an up vote.

CD

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Mushroom

Re: Linux et al

"What kind of twat signs his posts"

What kind of twat signs in as an AC to post that kind of fuckwit comment.

T

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Linux et al

"First thing the FOSS movement needs to do in order to be in a position to gain any significant market share is to engage some decent technical authors."

Seriously, that's what you think? In my experience very few people will bother reading documentation ever. Ask yourself, what's the percentage, and of those how often?

When I turn to vendor-provided technical documentation, I usually find it's rubbish, be that MS or Apple or Linux. Better to google and find what other users experiencing similar issues found useful. And that works for me.

It probably won't work as well for the non-technically minded. I reckon they need stuff that mostly "just works", not technical documentation. Ubuntu had a pretty good shot at it, then shat at that with Unity.

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Linux

Re: Linux et al

Well, yes, it is what I think, that's why I wrote it, do you see?

Different people work in different ways. A significant chunk of the PC market do indeed read documentation, in my experience. In a different market, I read documentation when I'm trying to implement something I've not done before, or when I come across an unusual result that I don't understand.

I also read forums and other web resources, and sometimes that works.

Here's a thought - you and others are, in fact, quite correct when you say that a lot of documentation for commercial software is shite. Perhaps the FOSS movement could gain some traction by putting itself forward as an alternative that comes with proper documentation, to encourage newcomers?

GJC

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Stop

Re: Linux et al :Dave 126

Debian install is the same, more or less, as CentOS (and presumably Fedora). You recommend yum, proving you are smart enough to use a command line and find the program you want. apt-get, in the same circumstances, works as well or better for Debian. So what's your beef? The only benefit I see from Ubuntu is automatic access to non-free software repositories andnice pointy-clicky progam installation that works almost as often as APT. What's your real problem?

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Linux

Just a thought.

I am pretty OS neutral at the moment, having been messing with GNU/Linux for over a decade, an avid user of OS X to now using a GNU/Linux VM (because it just works) as my work area on a Windows 7 PC because at the moment the stupid Broadcom based Dell wireless card ceased to work correctly after a certain Kernel version and I needed the machine up and running. . If I could have any combination it would be a Lenovo laptop running Mint. At this moment in time.However, Windows 7 is, by far, the best iteration of Windows to date. I have no opinion on 8 yet because I haven't used it, though I have been following the various 'discussions' over the FKAM Metrolike UI. In fact, for the most part, I no longer give a flying cowpat about the technology I use as long as it works, is well made, has a life of over 3 years at LEAST, supported, is secure, (admittedly not usually in MS and Apples favour, but at least the former now admit to problems when they occur), works well on on the chosen hardware/works well with the chosen software. This still leads me to using Mint on a tried and tested laptop, however I am digressing.

Now, with that brief background out of the way to let you know I don't have MS tattooed on my butt.- this is why I think Microsoft is missing a massive trick.

Hardware...Microsoft are a software company. They have been doing, mostly, software since inception and so far have their relative successes and downfalls. Lets be honest, on standalone machines they have the market cornered and have done for well over a decade. Manufacturers, for the most part, still don't give a crap to Linux support, despite the fact that there would be a decent slice, if not massive, of the market who go for it.

Why don't Microsoft go into Linux in a BIG way? For a moment just forget their history regarding manipulating standards to suit them etc..and the distrust they would have in the GNU/Linux community. They have the clout to get a frame work in place to ensure anything that is Microsoft Linux certitfied as a hardware device is supported. With, hopefully, the same driver support also then feeding GNU/Linux as a whole. Manufacturers would love them because those machines would also work with other distros so therefore these new machines would sell to those who want a, relatively, trouble free install experience. GNU/Linux then becomes a desktop norm. Microsoft can make money by selling services and charge for its other software. They only have a market share to gain, as opposed only having a market share to lose. They effectively sidestep Apple competition as now you have the full force of an open market, as opposed to the closed market that Apple works in.

I can see this working. Regardless of the slight horror that is looking over my shoulder whilst writing this.

So - what are the thoughts of others on this? Am I mad? Is this crazy talk? Can you see this as an avenue that could work? is this the way that MS may stop becoming just another IBM (Yes, they are a major Service company, I see the parallels in my argument - I should be working, not typing this :) ).

What say you?

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Re: Just a thought.

Down-vote for the comment "(because it just works)" in relation to anything GNU/Linux.

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Meh

Re: Just a thought.

Actually OSX would be luvely - if I could change the desktop to how I want it to work, rather than being dictated to on how it should be used. Some people like being dictated to, some people don't - that's life).

(Ok mention linux and feel my whraf, wrifff, wrath - in actuality I would love a useable BSD desktop install. But that ain't gonna happen sister - nice on servers though).

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Trollface

Re: Just a thought.

Hey, I have much more flexibility in my OS X desktop than anyone running Gnome 3.

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Re: Just a thought.

Microsoft already has a pretty good OS. What's it called again...? Oh, yeah: Windows 7. I hear it's pretty popular.

Mind-boggling that they can squander it so effectively that your suggestion almost seems to make sense.

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FAIL

Re: Just a thought.

Really more flexibility than Mac OS eh? Do I sense sarcasm? With friggin Mac OS you can't even hide the menu bar at the top without a 3rd party app. Even Windows 95 could do that I believe.

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Linux

Re Article.....

Re Steve Ballmer - "just as he’s been personally dinged for underperforming in one of the company’s cash cows: Windows."

Ummm no.

He didn't under perform.

He over bullshitted, over gouged, over scammed, over repackaged the same old software in new wrapping paper, over regionalised, over product locked in, over sold shitty product, over under developed, and over hyped his own bullshit on the way through....

While I use the Xubuntu Operating System, with the Nautilus File Manager, the most desk tops I have needed to have open at any one time is 20 of them - with 4 directories open on 4 drives in 4 tabs per window, with sometimes several windows per desk top, while sorting out a very disarrayed system/s.

I dread going back to using Microsoft and their operating systems.

In the foul year of our lord 2012, and "Lame Brain Ballmer" and the Microsoft product development team, only has separate single windows - with no TABBED windows for the file manager.

They took like 5 or 6 years to bring out Pop Up Add Blocking - AFTER all the other browser makers had it.

Microsoft's bullshit OS's trumpeted by a bullshit artist.

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Happy

Re: Re Article.....

You sound bitter...

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Linux

Re: Re Article.....

Dear Peter,

Alas he does sound bitter but I can understand it as he may have had unhappy eperiences using Windows

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Coffee/keyboard

Microsoft... PHONE?

Y'know, there's some great jokes about a Microsoft Phone in here somewhere, but it's still too early in the morning, and I'm still on my first cup. All you guys in the UK, though, about five or six hours ahead of me, feel free to have at it.

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I like Windows, it's good for the captains chair model of computing where you sit in a comfy seat in front of a desk with 2 or 3 monitors surrounding half a meter away, a big keyboard and a mouse and fat headphones.

I hope Microsoft don't ruin this model by chasing the Playing-Angry-Birds-On-The-Train tablet model of computing whichsucks for anything but trivial tasks for any device I've tried using (no keyboard!). Although no doubt it's good for checking email, watching videos of cats on youtube and playing coffee break games.

That other model, the Sitting-in-front-of-the-TV-with-an-inferior-controller model also sucks. Again I think it's because of the lack of a keyboard, makes trivial tasks a lot harder. Not to mention the gamepad controller they all use makes many tasks impossible/hard. Press I for inventory makes a hell of a lot more sense than left-shift-button-up or whatever the fk input some of these console developers choose and then they want you to enter your name for a high score!

It looks quite a sad future for the captains chair. Touch screen monitors are the only cool thing I see on the horizon. Everything else seems to be an effort to marginalize it out of existence for newer trendy yet inferior models (although perhaps cheaper isn't inferior).

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Meh

If you *need* Windows for the Captain's Chair

Then you are probably just playing at being Captain.

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Re: If you *need* Windows for the Captain's Chair

>Then you are probably just playing at being Captain.

Or he is the real ass captain (urban dictionary fluff).

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no mention of Zune?

wunner why...

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