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back to article Judge goes postal on Kim Dotcom extradition appeal

Kim Dotcom’s attempts to escape US prosecution on the grounds that his company Megaupload was not based in the country has been thrown out of US District Court. Judge Liam O'Grady deemed Megaupload's dismissal demands to be "extreme" and denied the request. Federal prosecutors argued that team Megaupload’s line of reasoning “ …

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Go

Hold on...

No, never mind.. Proceed with this insanity at flank speed, please. The RIAA fuelled strawmannery of this farce will doubtlessly immensely impress the International World, and in no way whatshowever highlight the glaring holes of putrefaction that riddle US legislature and politics.

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Meh

I'm surprised

The Americans haven't grabbed him off the street, put a needle in his ar*e, stuck him in a crate and mailed him to the US.

He wants to save his money, because no amount of trying in court will change the minds of the US legal system.

They want him and if it takes 50 years they will pobably get him.

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Anonymous Coward

The United States government is bound and determined to paint itself as the international bad boy and Kim Dotcom as an international folk hero/

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Not to put a damper on your post...

...but, what good is that going to do for Kim Dotcom? The US already has him where they want him. No amount of public support from other countries will make his case any better for him. He--and Megaupload--are both pretty much done. I thought that was obvious when New Zealand's puppet government followed its master's orders to extradite Dotcom to the US in the first place (busting into the guy's mansion like Seal Team 6, only to find him in a "secure" room with a shotgun somewhere nearby was a nice touch, though).

It should be painfully obvious now, when the judge presiding over the case can refuse the dismissal of the case and justify the illegal extradition by basically handing the guy the extradition papers after he's already been extradited. The part about mailing the papers to a company's "avatar" should do wonders for the perception of the US legal system from the rest of the world. But, as long as the US can rule over the civilized world and bomb the uncivilized world with impunity, what can anybody really do about it?

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Re: Not to put a damper on your post...

None of which changes what AC said. In fact you kinda have to take all that as read otherwise OP would be pointless...

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Anonymous Coward

@AC: "The United States government is determined to paint itself as the international bad boy and Kim Dotcom as an international folk hero"

That's the media's job - to portray every situation in the most controversial terms possible - and Kim Dotcom plays it for all its worth. But folk hero? Not with anyone I know. All we see is a common fence for stolen digital goods using the millions he accrued wasting huge amounts of public tax money and resources playing an expensive legal game to evade justice. I look forward to hearing him account for his 'business dealings' in court.

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Anonymous Coward

Folk Hero

Yes. Folk hero

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Flame

i'm still waiging

Waiting for the day when the US judges decide the whole case and overrule the NZ judges.

Popcorn please!

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circular logic

So.... they need an indictment to extradite him, but they cant serve the papers, which is a legal requirement for the indictment until he has been extradited.

Hmmm yeah that makes sense

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Black Helicopters

With the substantial budget cuts to the US Postal Service, can we be sure a letter was even sent?

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Comstock laws

Would it have been decent to send it?

The Comstock laws were designed by the rich for the rich to protect the rich.

Is fatty still rich or has the US government spent his money while waiting for the case to be heard?

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Go

Sauce for the goose...

So Dot com should blog or make it well know in 'internet writing' that Judge O'Grady appears to be a pervert/ freemason/ child molester/ retard and leave it at that. If this train-wreck should get to court then any judge tarred with such a scathing brush would have to stand aside or claim contempt of court. Ha ha! New lawyers please!

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WTF?

Re: Sauce for the goose...

Nice. Tar people living with learning difficulties with the same brush as perverts and child molesters.

Not sure what your issue is with Freemasons either.

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Re: Sauce for the goose...

Down with Freemasons! Up with The Ancient Mystic Society of No Homers!

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Anonymous Coward

Didn't they get the memo?

You know the one that told him that the US has jurisdiction over the whole planet? Yep you do something that is against the law in the US but at the time you are in 'some other hell hole on earth' the US can legally come after you and demand your extradition to the US. This is despite the fact that you might be not doing anything illegal according to the laws of that country.

Then remember that the US also routinely sentences people to 150 years in jail and you can see why an awful lot of people are fighting tooth and nail to avoid extradition.

Then there are the cases (ok not so many now) where people suddenly dissappear only to turn up in some jail in the US years later. (This is the Assange argument)

Anon simply because I'd like to avoid being on their 'hit' list for as long as possible.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Didn't they get the memo?

I'd like to avoid being on their 'hit' list for as long as possible

Too late.

Kindest regards, the NSA, in collaboration with "interpret 'special relation' any way you want to" GCHQ.

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So the judge came to the incredible conclusion that the reach of his court is global. Wanker.

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Anonymous Coward

If the alleged offences were alleged to have been committed outside the US

then the US courts have no jurisdiction.

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WTF?

Re: If the alleged offences were alleged to have been committed outside the US

Even Britain has extra-territorial laws ... witness the child diddler Gary Glad who was deported from Cambodia AND VietNam and then faced legal action in the UK.

I'm all for knocking these perverts down (ever seen a picture of some old white letch holding the hand of a girl who height barely makes it to his belt level - lives in in the memory) but this fad is spreading.

The US is by far the worst offender.

We need more countries like France, and, now, New Zealand who protect their citizens and their rights. There are too many a*sewipes of countries like Australia, Britain, Canada, et.c, who bend their laws and help the US get the people. Once in the US they are in the Let's Make a Deal system - 100 years if you plead not guilty, 5 for guilty.

The Canadian Supreme Court has slapped down that government on breaches - the US simply declines to hear them.

Of course, Britain doesn't have a tangible Constitution - better for the pols.

We should all be grateful for the stand taken by the Prime Minister of New Zealand in acknowledging the wrongs, and for the courts of that country for denying the enforcement authorities use of illegally obtained warrants. Wouldn't happen in the Us of A with it's nothing of a Constitution which all officials there pledge, hand over heart, to uphold and protect. What a joke.

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Re: If the alleged offences were alleged to have been committed outside the US

The problem here is that US authorities have long maintained, for computer transactions, that the transaction occurs at the users end of things. That's why mail-order businesses are supposed to collect sales tax based on the address of the buyer. Even back in the pre-public-internet days of Bulletin Board Systems (BBS) (late '80s) I remember a case of Attorneys General in Tennessee filing charges against BBS operators in California for violating Tennessee obscenity laws by letting their citizens download pictures of topless ladies.

Of course the rule of where the "transaction" takes place then gets completely ignored if the server is in America but none of the customers are.

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Re: If the alleged offences were alleged to have been committed outside the US

Their take on things is interesting - the crime is committed at the user end. How do I stop my company based overseas from breaking laws in the USA? I could feebly attempt some kind of ip block, but what of proxies, VPNs, and TOR? The user is still in the US and ip blocks aren't always reliable.

Surely it only makes sense that the crime takes place in the US only if the company actively solicits the participation of people in the US?

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Re: If the alleged offences were alleged to have been committed outside the US

> Even Britain has extra-territorial laws ... witness the child diddler Gary Glad who was deported from Cambodia AND VietNam and then faced legal action in the UK.

True, but at least he was a UK Citizen. Kim Dotcom is a German national living in New Zealand.

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Re: If the alleged offences were alleged to have been committed outside the US

The Prime Minister of New Zealand was one of the boot licking grinning lackeys to the USA's action.

Kim Dotcom has a shitload of money and the courts have released it to him in order to fight charges fairly.

This wasn't on the planned list of events the NZ or USA govts had in mind - the original idea was to prevent him fighting anything by cutting off access to lawyers, then railroading the extradition through, with the NZ government keeping and selling off all the goodies seized from his mansion.

They weren't counting on one of the judges growing a backbone, or the power of the Internet for getting out information they'd prefer to be kept quiet (it's easy to silence media in New Zealand, defamation threats are used all the time as gagging mechanisms)

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Anonymous Coward

Re: If the alleged offences were alleged to have been committed outside the US

Ever heard of International law?

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It is, however simple.

It may be within the purview of the US to demand extradition. No country has the right to determine what US law should be.

It is, however, equally within the purview of the NZ law to refuse extradition on the basis of whatever NZ lawmakers decide reasons for refusal are.

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Facepalm

Proof of posting...

... is not proof of delivery...!

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WTF?

"foreign corporations can commit crimes in the United States...

"...without risk of being brought to justice here"

So if a US citizen buys something from a business in another country which, according to US law is illegal in the USA, it is the *business* which is deemed to have committed a crime and the owners should immediately and henceforth be extradited to the US to face trial...???

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Vic
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Re: "foreign corporations can commit crimes in the United States...

> if a US citizen buys something from a business in another country

Moreover, what about when a non-US person gets something from a US server that happens to be illegal in that person's country?

If the rest of the world is subject to US laws if the end-user is in the US, it must therefore be the case that US businesses are equally subject to the laws of every country which received their packets. Ho look - US companies are now subject to Saudi law...

Vic.

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Alien

Rich old men can be very determined

The toothless get ruthless - Roger Waters (The Powers That Be)

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Ha

Before the US starts hitting on foreign corporations committing crimes in the US, perhaps they should look in their own backyard at what US corporations are doing in the US ?

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Anonymous Coward

And now for the reverse..

Federal prosecutors argued that team Megaupload’s line of reasoning “leads to the incredible conclusion that foreign corporations can commit crimes in the United States without risk of being brought to justice here."

Hmm. Facebook, Google, are you listening? You may be American (with the occasional local tax saving outlet), but the statement above is something you will learn to regret. The Streetview debacle was but the start..

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also

The judge is also indicating that there might be a valid case against KDC. It aint simples. It looks like the judge thinks there might be an amount of intent to do bad things. Given the illegal and unlawful actions from the plods, the lawyers are going to have a picnic splitting the tainted evidence. I notice Key is stonewalling, does that mean more to come? The same non-answer to a number of questions indicates Key is either in damage limiting mode, or they have not given up. On the other hand, look at the free publicity KDC is getting. When the new service launches, there will be no shortage of free advertising. The world is about to be carpet bombed.

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Facepalm

The Monster Dotcom

is a dangerous international criminal because-wait for it- He had a File Sharing Website!

My God that is as bad as it gets.

According to the Americans.

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Anonymous Coward

Not a big deal

There was no way that silly argument was going to get this case dismissed. It was foolish to even waste the courts time.

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Facepalm

file lockers watch out...

Since the shutdown of MU it's good to see that no new file lockers have sprung up and that IP is being protected for all...oh wait

Music companies and film production studios struggling to generate enough revenue whilst free-loaders are 'paying' to access file lockers- shurely some sort of irony here

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