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back to article Ubuntu 12.10: More to Um Bongo Linux than Amazon ads

A second beta of Ubuntu 12.10 has arrived and its biggest feature has proved its most controversial: the integration of Amazon.com search results on your desktop. A new Lens in the Unity Dash will poll Amazon to find results relevant to your search terms. And yes, if you click the link and buy the item Ubuntu-maker Canonical …

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I have gone to Mint KDE

and I'm increasingly glad.

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Re: I have gone to Mint KDE

Hopefully Kubuntu will remain a Amazon free zone.

Am I alone in thinking the unity desktop looks aweful with or without Amazon.

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WTF?

Re: Fedora here (was: I have gone to Mint KDE)

Am I alone in thinking the unity desktop looks aweful with or without Amazon.

Same thing here. Ever since they instated Unity I have considered giving Ubuntu another chance, but in the end I can't stand the fluffiness of the UI – to say nothing of the increasingly dumb(ifying) feature decisions.

Looks like I'll settle down with Fedora for a long time...

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Mint KDE

Me too

I just got as far as "a new Lens in Unity" and stopped reading.

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Headmaster

Re: I have gone to Mint KDE

Am I alone in thinking the unity desktop looks aweful with or without Amazon.

Do you mean "appalling; terrible" or "inspiring awe; profoundly impressive"?

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Re: Am I alone in thinking the unity desktop looks aweful

NO!!!!!

On both of my machines, that clusterfuck called Unity has been scraped from the hard drive.

UI for a smartphone or tablet - maybe, but for a desktop - absolutely not!!

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Facepalm

Re: I have gone to Mint KDE

Do you mean "appalling; terrible" or "inspiring awe; profoundly impressive"?

The one that isn't archaic. If he was talking about inspiring awe he'd use awesome.

You grammar Nazis really need to get a life.

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Go

I went xubuntu - Fantastic it all just works.

Easy as an easy thing.

http://complete-concrete-concise.com/ubuntu-2/ubuntu-12-04/ubuntu-12-04-how-to-install-the-xfce-desktop

Note: I did give Unity a fair hearing - 2-3 years? But Once you try Xfce you are back with a proper, useful, dare I say _delightful_, desktop.

Its the difference between night and day.

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Re: I went xubuntu - Fantastic it all just works.

I use Kubuntu but while I like KDE - version 4 suffers from severe bloat.

I also have a few Raspberrypies. At first LXDE was so slow as to be a joke. With the latest Debian release it does perform adequately and I've been playing around with the Midori browser. Going back to basics is quite enlightening. Because it doesn't understand Flash etc it automatically strips much of the bloat in many websites so the end to end performance is not that far short of a 'proper PC'.

Perhaps it is a bit too basic. Xbuntu may be a middle way. I may give it a go ...

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Re: I went xubuntu - Fantastic it all just works.

"I also have a few Raspberrypies." You lucky person! I still haven't got the one I ordered in June.

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JDX
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You'd think tech-savvy Linux users wouldn't be confused into thinking this was a privacy issue, since the overlords made it pretty clear they do the search and pass on the results. What was the comment... "you don't trust US? We have root already, you implicitly trust us"

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Anonymous Coward

"you don't trust US? We have root already, you implicitly trust us"

I like the use of grammatical tense there, to imply that trust is current and continuing. Cos, y'know, they've already demonstrated that they're happy to observe your searches and pass them on to third parties and crap adverts into your desktop and then follow up with what looks remarkably like a thinly veiled threat regarding the fact that they could do whatever the hell they liked, if they wanted to.

So that's nice.

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but "tech-savvy Linux users"

won't be using this kak

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Trollface

Oxymoron

"Tech savvy Linux users" and "Ubuntu".

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WTF?

wtf?

I can't say I am against web apps as I use drop box and Android. But my desktop is a desktop, not a mobile device. I don't need to run web apps on a desktop, I use a desktop app for desktop stuff and it is called a program and there are a few that I use that a installed locally. I don't want to run my personal word docs and personal finances by what ubuntu think I should be doing, or google or MS. I run software to store locally and I DECIDE what goes onto the web as storage or sharing.

Having things stuck on as web apps as default is a slippery slope. Yes I shop at amazon, yes I quite like amazon, but I don't want everything I do to search via amazon. Am I to believe next time I look on urban dictionary to find out what a particular word is, that Amazon and ubuntu are both going to try and sell me something related? It will lead to very awkward searches and really dodgy results. :)

Unity was one step too far for me with ubuntu, but enforced web apps, searches with an amazon app built in. Taking the p*ss now Mr Shuttleworth.

I agree Linux to progress might need support, and money making with advertising is a possible revenue stream. Doesn't mean people want it though.

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Re: wtf?

You might be interested in a new prouct me and some friends at IBM are working on.

It's a small cheap standalone computer that can operate without a connection to a corporate mainframe, but just sit on your desk, and do your work, when you need it, rather than just be a terminal.

We are thinking of calling it personal computer.

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Re: wtf?

WTF is this nonsense about web apps anyway? From what I can tell reading on various *buntu forums and such, the Amazon web app is identical in functionality to a bookmark that links to a web page.

It's almost as if the people at Canonical don't remember the 90s. Active Desktop anyone?

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Re: wtf?

"It's almost as if the people at Canonical don't remember the 90s. Active Desktop anyone?"

I don't think any of the script kiddies responsible for this rubbish were even born in the '90s.

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Ubuntu

This kind of integrate everything into everything into everything actually put me off Ubuntu a couple of years ago. IIRC there was some sort of social media garbage that they pre-installed and I could tell this was a destination they would head down.

Just give me a base shell/desktop and I will install the exact packages that I want. Just make sure the package manager can resolve the dependencies properly.

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On the one hand, I don't think the Amazon results are necessary - I have a perfectly good web browser and would not like to see resources wasted on duplicating it's functionality in the dash.

On the other hand, I don't mind Canonical getting some money back somehow.

Generally, I'm not outraged by the Amazon thing but I give it a cold welcome. Canonical have made several decisions with regards to the direction of Ubuntu that did not make sense at the time, but have come to make sense in later releases - e.g. the Global menu bar didn't make sense until HUD. So, I look forward to seeing where they go with this in the end.

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Pirate

I agree

If you shop on Amazon then this saves a couple of key clicks if you don't have a browser open. Like that's going to happen.

What upsets me is that I get Ubuntu from a UK distributor. It's a UK based development team. I am in the UK. ... .... I want this to go to Amazon.co.uk

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Unhappy

Re: I agree

Another advantage of doing this in the browser - you know where it's going and, of course, have control over it. If it gets the results from anywhere other than amazon.co.uk then I'm definitely not interested.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I agree

I'd also like to see Amazon pay their fair share of UK Tax

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FAIL

Lost for words

My desktop is mine! I can see the point of mixing of local apps, a quick link to an installer, and online apps, as long as I am asked if I want it. But mixing paid-for advertising with a local desktop search is such a hare-brained rip-off idea that the members of the Axis of Evil (MS and Google) would not have tried to tread there. This is as bad as Smart Tags and worse than the fact that Google thinks nothing of searching my email, FFS. Even if they retract it now, it shows a mindset that makes me add Canonical to the companies to avoid if possible. In contrast to MS and Google, this one can be completely avoided.

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Apps yes, OSes no

It's the desktop which has the ads. ie: another application.

An application Microsoft is taking great steps to hide in it's new OS.

So the desktop is simply another app.

There are ads in XBox Live's dashboard too, but overall, I like XBox Live's dashboard.

I like the look of Modern UI too, and I'm sure there may well be the odd ad that crops up there too.

Hell this website has skyscraper ads and it doesn't stop me coming here.

Ads are a fact of life really, you've just got to improve your filter-foo. It's rare I notice and advert I'm not in some way interested in, so if I only notice ads I'm somewhat interested in, what's the problem. It doesn't make me more likely to buy that product, no matter what marketing surveys might say.

Some of my favourite telly (ITV) from the 80s, were the adverts (that's no saying much, granted, where ITV are concerned)

Perhaps Canonical will offer a paid for, ad free version. It's fair they make money after all?!?

This turned into a bit of a rant didn't it? Sorry *)

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Apps yes, OSes no

Agreed about adverts being some of the best telly. I especially liked the Neutralia advert from the mid nineties.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Apps yes, OSes no

Agreed about adverts being some of the best telly.

When I lived in Europe in the eighties, one of the highlights of a trip to the UK was the telly adverts.

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Re: Apps yes, OSes no

Perhaps Canonical will offer a paid for, ad free version. It's fair they make money after all?!?

Closed source thinking.

With open source, the source is public and someone will take the source of your no-ads version and rebuild it and put it up for download. You are not allowed to withhold that source from them, if it's a derivative program of a GPL'ed work. If you've tried to protect yourself by (say) copyrighting the artwork, it'll just take them a little longer to replace that with their own. Red Hat do copyright theit graphics, probably more because of Oracle than the free distributions. If Centos slipped up, I very much doubt Red Hat would do any more than bang off an e-mail telling them which copyrighted graphic they missed.

Red Hat understands this. AFAIK they are happy with it, but if they are unhappy it'll do them no good at all. So they actively encourage people who aren't willing to pay to use Fedora, which is a sort of years-long much-better-than-beta test. It also gives them a chance to garner feedback on radical re-designs before they inflict them on paying customers!

And if you aren't happy to live close to the bleeding edge, there's Centos (bug-for-bug compatible with RHEL) and Scientific Linux (very slighly less bug-for-bug, in that they fix any bug that's causing problems at CERN, even if Red Hat don't).

And of course, there are several Debian-flavour distributions that aren't Ubuntu. And of course, you have very great freedom to remove any packages that offend you, and install replacements that don't.

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Anonymous Coward

@b166er - Re: Apps yes, OSes no

This website has skyscraper ads but it is us that we're coming here by our own will, not the website coming at us wanted or not. To me it is a great difference.

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Re: Apps yes, OSes no

Was the Neutralia advert the one with the nipple?

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Is the love mutual?

Does Amazon's downloader now come in 64-bit flavour or do I still have to fire up a 32-bit system to buy their MP3s?

(Oh, and that *is* a rather good bug report. The comments thread took a few posts to get going but got there in the end.)

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JDX
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Re: Is the love mutual?

You mean your OS can't run 32 bit apps in 64-bit mode? That's pretty tragic.

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Re: Is the love mutual?

Don't touch the Amazon mp3 downloader. Use Pymazon instead. Much neater.

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Re: Is the love mutual?

The Amazon MP3 downloader for Linux has been withdrawn altogether, regardless of number of bits.

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Anonymous Coward

Queue the freetards....

....complaining that their 'rights' are being compromised. If you're too cheap to pay for a proper commercial operating system like Windows 8, then you have no right to moan about it.

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Pint

Re: Queue the freetards....

Lame troll of the month award!

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Headmaster

Re: Queue the freetards....

It's cue, not queue.

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Re: Queue the freetards....

"....complaining that their 'rights' are being compromised. If you're too cheap to pay for a proper commercial operating system like Windows 8, then you have no right to moan about it."

Or use one of the other completely free Linux distributions or OSes that don't invade your privacy. But if you insist on spending money, follow the troll and buy Windows 8.

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Re: Queue the freetards....

A haha haha haha ha! WIndows 8, a proper Operating System? Not just Windows, a proper Operating System? Windows 8? Really? Are you a Microsoft shill or just a kiddie who has only ever seen one operating system, and that on his Mummy's PC, purchased from Comet with Tesco vouchers?

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Re: Queue the freetards....

The freetards must NOT stand in a row! They must NOT lollygag all over the place! It is time to take a stand on freetards!

Queue them! Queue them I say! Queue them with middleware, queue them with enterprise busses! Queue them to parallel threads and with multiprocessing modules! We shall queue them on the beaches and landing grounds. We shall queue them with growing confidence in the air! We shall never surrender!

OK, it's Friday and I need a pint. Maybe a little lie down.

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Facepalm

Re: Friday

Except it's Tuesday. I think I just need my meds.

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Pint

"OK, it's Friday and I need a"

calendar?

cheers

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Re: Queue the freetards....then you have no right to moan about it.

All I have to say is this:

Shut

The

Fuck

Up!!!

You can take your beloved WindblowZE operating system, and stick that bloated mess where the sun will never shine!

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Re: Queue the freetards....

Maybe they were all lining up to have their say.

They're very polite that way.

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Re: Friday

"OK, it's Friday and I need a pint."

"Except it's Tuesday. I think I just need my meds."

You raised my hopes and dashed them quite expertly, sir. Bravo! - Tinny Tim

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Coffee/keyboard

From the bug report

>> "People who searched for this regexp also searched for"

LOL

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Web apps on desktop

Like what Peppermint has been doing for two years?

On the flip side I installed this the other day on my Thinkpad T400 and it's really nice.

Very fast in operation. The Unity interface is fine for it's main usage as a family machine. I can always install a different desktop if I want to use it for more serious stuff.

The wife will probably love the Amazon integration. My credit card will be less impressed :(

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Linux

Ubuntu?

You are history here. The latest in a long line of fails. Just as OS X is morphing ot iOS and Walled Gardens, Microsoft shoots their own feet off at the waist, with just about everything they have released, Canonical snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

All they had to do was have what they had two years ago, but faster, smoother, more consistent and fewer bugs. Instead they stick joss sticks up their nose and ear buds with loud whale song and go La La La.... IDIOTS

Debian 4 months ago, we shut down our last MS (Windows 2000) Server. .

So YET AGAIN, for about the 30th year running this won't be the year UNIX, BSD, Xenix, Cromix, Linux etc becomes successful on the desktop.

I guess most people need to stick with XP, or maybe Windows 7. I'll stagger on with a mix of XP (one ten year old laptop) and Debian (all the other Laptops, server etc).

Using various *nx since 1985. It would make a grown Penguin cry.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Ubuntu?

"...because the only way to learn what's not perfect is to have other people - real people - use it."

Just take a look at the hits recorded by Distrowatch, Ubuntu is on the downward path because people DON'T use it as much as they did.

Canonical, give the people what they want, not what you think they want, otherwise no one will use what you are providing.

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Unhappy

Re: Ubuntu?

If all we need is a distribution that boots direct into Gnome 2 for that much-like-XP experience, then it already exists, and Linux will conquer (not the Ubuntu flavour, though).

The block is Microsoft data-format lock-in. Openoffice and LibreOffice are not entirely compatible with MS Office, and the (slight!) incompatibilities are the reason that businesses continue to fork out several hundred quid per employee on MS office licenses, than loading one of the free Office softwares onto their Microsoft systems and then planning an exodus to Linux.

It's not just Office, of course. Outlook is another lock-in. Ever tried using Thunderbird as a mail client in an organisation that uses Outlook calendar functions? Then there are Access databases. And of course, all the proprietary Microsoft-only applications that they've bought from third-party vendors.

Truth be told, LInux lost the corporate desktop before Linux was born. The only business that can easily migrate to Linux for everything, is one that has yet to buy its first computers. And the trouble is that start-up businesses usually don't have anyone who knows about Linux and about the Microsoft data-format lock-in trap. By the time they are big enough to have even a part-time computer system manager, Microsoft will rule their roost.

The unhappy face should be crying. The business model that Microsoft uses is very similar to that of a Cocaine cartel (albeit legal). By the time the user realizes Cocaine (or MS software) is not his friend, it's too late for most users to do anything about it.

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