back to article Intel: Behold the TABLETS of our partners, proof of Win8's MIGHT

Windows 8 is ready, and to prove it Intel just listed PC chip partners who are putting Microsoft’s touchy operating system on its silicon. Yesterday, Chipzilla named nine OEMs that are building Windows 8 tablets and convertibles running its chips. Acer, Asus, Dell, Fujitsu, Hewlett-Packard, Lenovo, LG Electronics, Samsung and …

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Anonymous Coward

Meh, no thanks.

That is all.

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Holmes

This is all well and good BUT....

what we all want to know is

How Frigging Much?????

When we has laughed ourselfves silly (if they want silly prices)

Then we might just ask questions such as

What is the quality of the screens VS existing tablets ????? (we don't want no 1366x768 crappiness cheapo screen than you Mr HP/Dell/etc etc)

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FAIL

Re: This is all well and good BUT....

From Stevie B's comment a week or so ago they will be priced at around the $400-500 dollar for RT (iPad competition) and ultrabook ie $800-1200 for the Pro versions (As stated by him weeks ago that they would be ultrabook prices). On top of that it looks like the keyboard cover will be another $199 on top from an article here a couple of weeks ago with an apparent leaked advert.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/17/ballmer_has_no_doubts_about_windows_8/

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Re: This is all well and good BUT....

When Microsoft enters a market, it always plans to destroy competition.

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Battery life

So what's the battery life like of the Atom tablets vs. the arm tablets?

Also are the RT x86 tablets capable of installing software outside of the market?

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Re: Battery life

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/03/acer-iconia-w700-w510-windows-8/ describes x86 Windows 8 tablets, quoting "more than 8 hours" for a tablet, and 18 hours plugged into a keyboard dock (similar idea to the Asus Transformer). Suggests they are aiming for the same level of battery life.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/windows-8-tablets-using-clover-trail-chips-have-a-10-hour-battery-and-three-week-standby-time-says-intel quotes 10 hour battery life for Clover Trail.

Would also be interesting to see performance comparisons of ARM vs Atom, similarly for the GPUs - even today, it would be interesting to see what things are like for tablets vs netbooks.

There is no "RT x86" Windows - x86 Windows is the full Windows 8, so you'll be able to run things from anywhere, just like a normal Windows PC.

What isn't clear to me is what the plan is for x86 software that is built using their new "Windows Runtime" API - whether that must be distributed via Windows, or if that's only for the full-screen "Metro" applications, or not required at all. Anyone got a ref?

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Re: Battery life

"What isn't clear to me is what the plan is for x86 software that is built using their new "Windows Runtime" API - whether that must be distributed via Windows, or if that's only for the full-screen "Metro" applications, or not required at all. Anyone got a ref?"

I don't know the full answer to that, but if it is the case, then for "distributed via Windows" you can definitely read "distributed via MS, or your company or via your developer key". It doesn't change your question (and the developer scenario is irrelevant), but I think it's worth flagging up because so many here seem to take one sentence and run with it and if you write "must be distributed via Windows", some people will think enterprise users can't deploy their own in-house software without going via MS.

I too would be interested in the answer to your question.

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The low power x86 chipsets make Windows RT a complete irrelevance imo.....unless they end up being far more expensive. I'm not interested in having i5 or i7 power in a Windows tablet, but I DO want x86.

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I like cheese.

It gives you interesting dreams. (It's an analogy - and doesn't in anyway degenerate other platforms before you ask).

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Thumb Up

Re: I like cheese.

I agree. But I think you meant "denigrate"

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Re: Win8 Most undesirble Chrimbo Present competition winner 2012. win8FAIL

You missed off the scenario where Little Gemma asks for a Win8 device and Mum accidentally gets her an iPad. Just as likely to lead to "unhappy kids". Picture little Timmy there trying to jam a USB drive into the side of his iPad, or tiny Gemma staring forlornly at her pile of SD cards or searching from side to side for the MS Office icon.

Your post has made me feel very sad. Let's hope all kids get their CHOICE this Christmas and aren't told what to like. All devices have plusses and minuses.

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Re: Win8 Most undesirble Chrimbo Present competition winner 2012. win8FAIL

"@H4mony, That scenario is rather unlikely. Accountants in grey suits ask for windows, not kids. Kids do have choice, iPad, various Android flavours, kindle, nook, et cetera. Having MS barge in, that's not so good, if they could manage it. They KILLED choice on netbooks by bullying OEMs not to install Linux. Now no one buys any netbooks any more. MS are ANTI choice."

Leaving aside the easily refuted notion that anyone who prefers Windows is an accountant and wears a grey suit (I do neither), the logic that if you removed MS there would be more choice for purchasers is perverse.

I don't see any reason why a kid would not want a Win8 tablet over an iPad. I already listed a few advantages. I suspect a No True Scotsman argument heading my way in which any "kid" that wants a Win8 tablet is dismissed from the argument for one reason or another. As you've actually broadened the discussion to Windows generally, I think it's trivially disproved that vast numbers of kids do not want a Windows machine in front of them instead of a Linux or Mac. I know that if you marched into homes across the land and stuck Ubuntu on children's computers over their Windows installs, they would not react by saying "I prefer this" on the whole. And that's no sleight to Linux - I use it daily - it's just pointing out the absurd absolutes of your position.

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Mushroom

Re: Win8 Most undesirble Chrimbo Present competition winner 2012. win8FAIL

All of you are wrong.

From what I've seen of my customers who have bought their kids a tablet, it's usually -

Broken tablet screen by new years eve. No more tablets.

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Re: MS are ANTI choice.

> They KILLED choice on netbooks by bullying OEMs not to install Linux

When MS announced WOA it seemed that they had two targets:

* OEMs who were making Android/WebOS tablets.

* OEMs who were making multi-ARM servers.

Netbooks were originally cheap Atom machines with DVD player screens. They were incapable of running Vista so were immune from threats over MS removing 'loyalty' discounts on all products - so MS revived XP specifically to kill off Linux, and eventually Netbooks.

Makers then moved to ARM, which again were immune from MS threats. So MS announce WOA and the loss of discounts by HP was larger than the loss of WebOS. I doubt that there is much market for Windows RT, it is neither fish nor fowl, and likely to be too expensive even compared to iPad, but it serves one purpose, and that is to keep the OEMs under control.

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Re: Win8 Most undesirble Chrimbo Present competition winner 2012. win8FAIL

> the logic that if you removed MS there would be more choice for purchasers is perverse.

Then you have failed to understand history. Microsoft's rise was built on the strategy of locking in the OEMs to prevent them from selling other company's products. Illegal 'per box pricing', 'loyalty' discounts, free IE, were designed to choke the competition. If MS could not drive the competition out of business then it would buy it and kill it, or buy a competitor and give those products away until they were the only supplier.

Many of the OEMs were working on ARM devices and servers that would run Linux, Android or WebOS. These now seem less likely to be available as a choice for consumers as MS forces them to use Windows RT.

At Nokia there is now less choice for purchasers, no Maemo/Meego, less Symbian, mainly because of what MS/Elop decided.

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Re: Win8 Most undesirble Chrimbo Present competition winner 2012. win8FAIL

>> Accountants in grey suits ask for windows

> anyone who prefers Windows is an accountant and wears a grey suit

Nowhere did he say that _only_ accountants would ask for Windows.

In fact no one wants 'Windows', what they want is 'Excel' or 'Age of Empires' or 'My Little Pony', or 'what johnny has'.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: MS are ANTI choice.

And again with the paranoid delusions of Linux users.

OEMs demanded that Microsoft make XP available for netbooks, because they couldn't sell them with Linux on them. If there was a market for Linux based netbooks, there would be lots of Chinese OEMs churning them out, but even they gave up on that idea.

Do you really think the EU wouldn't be sniffing around this issue if there was anything to it other than paranoid delusions?

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Mushroom

Re: MS are ANTI choice.

Yes a little pause for thought for the Linux fans here.

I often get asked to get in or build pcs for customers. Sometimes they are a bit strapped for cash and so I will tell them they can have Ubuntu Linux or the like for free instead of windows. I give them a little demo to show it will do what they need.

I must have done this a dozen times or more. The result?

Not one took Linux. They all stumped up the extra for windows.

Linux - you really can't give it away.

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N2

Re: Win8 Most undesirble Chrimbo Present competition winner 2012. win8FAIL

Yep,

I suspect Win8 is 'media less' now so you cant even use it as a drinks mat.

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Re: MS are ANTI choice.

> If there was a market for Linux based netbooks, there would be lots of Chinese OEMs churning them out,

They moved onto the *next* thing: tablets running Android and there are *lots* of Chinese makers churning them out.

Netbooks were killed off because once you added the XP licence and built them to specs dictated by MS they became much the same price as low end laptops. Also the XP was only 'Home'.

The final nail was: """Microsoft has reminded OEMs that as of October 22 2010, it will forbid them from loading Windows XP on netbooks.""". They were forced to install Windows 7 *Starter* and no one wanted that. They bought iPads instead.

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Re: Win8 Most undesirble Chrimbo Present competition winner 2012. win8FAIL

Well, I think the greedy little sods should get a stocking with a wallnut, a satsuma, A Beano annual and a new toothbrush. And think themselves lucky it wasn't full of Coal.

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Re: Win8 Most undesirble Chrimbo Present competition winner 2012. win8FAIL

What do you mean by "I use Linux daily"? Did you use it in the same sense as in "5 years ago I was using OS/2 every time I withdrew cash from credit card via ATM"? Do you understand that Microsoft went out their way to reach and kill OS/2 even on ATMs? Do you want the same fate for tablets?

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Coffee/keyboard

Re: OEMs demanded that Microsoft make XP

Sound the same as rape victims demanded that ...

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Meh

Re: MS are ANTI choice.

Hmm downvotes. I guess the stark reality that given the choice of a free operating system like Linux and paying £100 for Windows, most of the general public would still choose Windows is too much of a bitter pill for some to swallow.

Guys I've tried pushing Linux, I mean a sale is a sale even if its just on the hardware but they really really don't want linux. Everybody loves a freebie, just not Linux.

Another case was a kids group that had been given ten old Dell PCs with the OS removed. They didn't want to shell out for Windows (even going through the charity deal) so I installed Ubuntu on them. They only needed access to Facebook/Internet and a little Open Office.

At the same time I also gave them two Windows XP machines as backup.

Guess which machines get used all the time? Clue - The Linux machines haven't been switched on in a long time.

The year of Linux....never gonna happen.

It's a shame but really it's like flogging a dead horse.

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Re: Win8 Most undesirble Chrimbo Present competition winner 2012. win8FAIL

"What do you mean by "I use Linux daily"? Did you use it in the same sense as in "5 years ago I was using OS/2 every time I withdrew cash from credit card via ATM"? Do you understand that Microsoft went out their way to reach and kill OS/2 even on ATMs? Do you want the same fate for tablets?"

When I wrote I use Linux daily, I meant that I work professionally as a programmer and DBA and technical manager and at least five days of the week, I use a Linux system (Debian) as my development platform. My home network is also run by a Debian server and I use multiple Linux installs for client's servers (nearly all CentOS). Up until Windows 7 came out, I almost exclusively used Debian Linux with KDE as my main desktop environment with an XP machine tucked away for the occasional time I needed to do web development and wanted to test something in IE. I swapped to a dual boot after Windows 7 came out and now I actually have Win8 pre-release as my default and just run Debian in a VM.

I don't think whatever MS do, that either Macs or Android or Linux are going away, so I'm not worried about MS's re-entry into the tablet market.

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Re: MS are ANTI choice.

Get real. Netbooks died because they were crap. When the price of a proper laptop dropped dramatically and tablets became a real alternative for some uses, there just wasn't any reason for netbooks to exist anymore.

Netbooks were constantly propped up with the excuse "but it's really inexpensive." This stopped being a good rationale when the price difference became too small to make it interesting anymore. If you needed a mobile workstation you got a real laptop. If you wanted a mobile media player and web browser you got a tablet or a high-end smartphone.

Netbooks filled a hole in the market that ceased to exist. Thus the netbooks ceased to be a notable category.

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Re: MS are ANTI choice.

Yep, ultra slow 8gb Ssd tech, single core atom cpus, 512mb of ram and too small screens do not make a slick computing experience.

Why not pay £50 more and get a proper laptop.

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Re: MS are ANTI choice.

> Yep, ultra slow 8gb Ssd tech, single core atom cpus, 512mb of ram and too small screens do not make a slick computing experience.

> Why not pay £50 more and get a proper laptop.

Because you are talking about 2 different things that were a couple of years apart.

Originally Netbooks were really cheap and made from DVD player screens, solid state disks, and Linux ran on these at a reasonabe speed for email, web browsing, simple WP and such. They were half the price of laptops and really portable.

When MS forced XP onto them they had to put in hard drives, more RAM, bigger screens, faster CPUs and added the licence fee for XP. This doubled their price, meanwhile laptops had been dropping in price.

Exactly, why would anyone buy an XP netbook. By that time iPads were available for what the original netbooks were used.

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Re: MS are ANTI choice.

Originally Netbooks were really cheap and made from DVD player screens, solid state disks, and Linux ran on these at a reasonabe speed for email, web browsing, simple WP and such. They were half the price of laptops and really portable.

And had enormously high return rates because people bought them thinking they were a "cheap" solution but had endless problems getting things to work on them. Which is why the OEMs went to Microsoft asking for a license scheme that allowed them to ship XP on them, since they were never going to be Vista capable. I'm afraid the idea that somehow Microsoft were in some desperate fight against an inevitable influx of Linux devices is nothing more than fanboy revisionist history.

When MS forced XP onto them they had to put in hard drives, more RAM, bigger screens, faster CPUs and added the licence fee for XP. This doubled their price, meanwhile laptops had been dropping in price.

Also not true, I have one of the eeePCs that shipped with XP and the only difference in spec was a slightly larger SSD a bit more RAM, along with a rather modest increase in price. The iPad wasn't available then, although it's arrival a while later did pretty much put the nail in the netbook coffin, because everyone looking for a simple web consumption device now had a better option. It was more expensive, but everyone who'd burnt their fingers on Linux netbooks was a little more inclined to spend to get something that worked.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: MS are ANTI choice.

Try giving a salad to a hardened Mcdonalds eater. You will get the same reaction

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Re: MS are ANTI choice.

> high return rates

That was just more MS marketing trash talk:

"""Asus CEO Jerry Shen has denied claims that consumers are sending back more Linux netbooks than they're returning Windows-based models.

Speaking in an interview with Laptop Magazine, Shen said return rates were the same for both operating systems."""

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/22/asus_ceo_shen_speaks_out/

> I'm afraid the idea that somehow Microsoft were in some desperate fight against an inevitable influx of Linux devices is nothing more than fanboy revisionist history.

Is Ballmer a 'fanboy' then:

http://www.osnews.com/story/21035/Ballmer_Linux_Bigger_Competitor_than_Apple

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Linux

Re: MS are ANTI choice.

"Linux - you really can't give it away."

Of course, just like Mr. Allen has discovered that even win8 needs a bit of time for learning. Linux is the same way, a bit of learning, then off you go. In my extended family we have 66 to 3 year olds using Linux. With a little help and their willingness to use it for a week or two, has led to continued use and fewer frantic tech calls later than when they were running windows!

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Anonymous Coward

BBC reporting that Android Apps will run on AMD Win8 devices

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19756734

I still won't buy one, well..... maybe when Win9 comes out!

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Re: BBC reporting that Android Apps will run on AMD Win8 devices

Wow! That's big news and a major win for AMD. Not sure MS will be very happy as it's a mixed blessing, but if this is accurate and it looks like it... Wow! Win8 comes out with a massive catalogue of Android Apps already for it. MS will be annoyed to see Win8 sullied by software that isn't really optimized for it. And Google will probably be horrified. But for existing users and developers... wow!

Also, that article's photo is fantastic! :D

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Re: BBC reporting that Android Apps will run on AMD Win8 devices

Typical BBC spin - the idea that Windows 8 doesn't have much software, and comparing simply by what's in the MS store, is ludicrous. It's true for ARM, but not x86 - and since the article is about AMD, it's not clear we're talking about the ARM version.

Seriously - Windows, the dominant platform for software by far, but we have the BBC writing fruitcake nonsense like "Microsoft is working hard to convince developers to make apps for Windows 8"? This was probably written by a journalist who thinks "App" is short for Apple, and doesn't realise it means application, i.e., software...

I have to laugh - years ago I criticised "app store counts" by pointing out it would be ludicrous to say that Windows didn't have much software simply because there isn't any in an "MS Store". I never realised we would end up with people actually making such a stupid claim.

Anyhow, interesting article anyway - the bit about Android on Windows that is. This would be beneficial to both Windows and Android imo.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: BBC reporting that Android Apps will run on AMD Win8 devices

"This was probably written by a journalist who thinks "App" is short for Apple, and doesn't realise it means application, i.e., software..."

I think you will find they mean Metro (or whatever its now called) apps. A big difference from the catalogue of old win32 stuff that keeps MS afloat.

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Re: BBC reporting that Android Apps will run on AMD Win8 devices

Oh I agree with you. But don't dismiss the significance of people being able to bring all their Android apps onto their PC or Win8 tablet. That's a bit of a blinder by AMD, imo.

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WTF?

Re: BBC reporting that Android Apps will run on AMD Win8 devices

"Microsoft is working hard to convince developers to make apps for Windows 8"? This was probably written by a journalist who thinks "App" is short for Apple...

So you honestly believe that a journalist intended to write that Microsoft wants to convince developers to make apples for Windows?

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Re: BBC reporting that Android Apps will run on AMD Win8 devices

"Typical BBC spin - the idea that Windows 8 doesn't have much software, and comparing simply by what's in the MS store, is ludicrous. It's true for ARM, but not x86 - and since the article is about AMD, it's not clear we're talking about the ARM version."

Thats not what its talking about. The article is saying that people who have Angry Birds on a phone may well like to install the same version on desktop. I don't recall seeing anything relating to a comparison of available apps for each eco system.

BUT..... i have a friend who is a BBC journalist and I (probably unfairly) give her loads of abuse about the inaccuracies and misleading BS they put out.

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Re: BBC reporting that Android Apps will run on AMD Win8 devices

Go to the AMD AppZone section for Android on Windows and the reality is far less exciting. Most of the apps are simply useless. The good ones already have native Windows versions or web versions. The remainder are a bunch of generic games of the sort that exist in vast numbers already on Windows and aren't very usable on a non-touchscreen device.

It's an interesting stunt but not much else.

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But the BIG question remains...

...Will any of the x86 tablets be Hackintosh-able?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: But the BIG question remains...

Now that would be funny, running full blown mac os on an MS tablet...

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Re: But the BIG question remains...

"Now that would be funny, running full blown mac os on an MS tablet..."

Why not? People run Windows on Macs.

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Anonymous Coward

Question

If a driver which has code dating back to win2k works fine with the added, unnecessary "startup" junk, various things that do stupid things like listening to keystroke, stylish (!) volume setting etc...

Will they be recoded to go along with new win8?or they will just fire up latest visual studio and hit compile button?

That is the real serious issue with x86. That junk will compile&run fine. On ARM, it won't.

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Trollface

Yay a device made for 8... Not

Well this is a different look for a PC, but is it really what we want? It's probably going to be expensive, loaded with bugs and worst of all its running Windows 8. *Shudder* I for one think that Microsoft should delay 8 by six months and dust off some proper desktop UI code for the rest of us who haven't quite given up on the good old keyboard+mouse interface. Listen up Microsoft, the keyboard and mouse are the way that we have interfaced computers for many years, why just throw that away and alienate the users who actually know how a PC should work?

Just remember folks,

PCs =/= Tablets

<3 Rob.

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Windows

Windows 7 designed for touch

This post is just a reminder that we had a big hoopla about Windows 7 being designed for touch from the ground up: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/products/features/touch but it didn't sell.

And that there was a big hoopla about Windows tablets at CES 2010, and the outcome was so dire that PCWorld disappeared their own slideshow: http://www.pcworld.com/article/186361/tablets_dell_hp.html but the underlying article remains: http://www.pcworld.com/article/186281/dawn_of_the_tablet_pc_ces_2010_roundup.html but none of that sold well.

And that Microsoft has been trying to sell tablets with Windows for 17 years with no success, with everybody they can get to build with their ware. For all involved it has been a money loser the whole time, including Microsoft. It has destroyed more relationships with customers than any other Microsoft product, except Vista and ME. Many billions have been burned on this fire.

This dog won't hunt.

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It might attract the usual crowd

There are some Microsoft Fanboys, the people who gladly write and even buy software written in VBA, the people who, when they are not writing VBA use OLE and DCOM and since then have used every new technology coming out. Such software products then require you to install everything from VBX to .net and Silverlight, as each one of those technologies has been shoehorned into the product.

That's the market Microsoft will most likely get, however that's also the market they alienate by not supporting Win32 on ARM.

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Meh

Not sure...

I couldn't see the point of the iPad when it was released - now I know it is the greatest thing since the wheel.

I can't see what market MS Surface devices are aiming for - hopefully I will be similarly surprised by the success of them.

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