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back to article Kiwi cops forgot Kim Dotcom's visa

New Zealand's Organised and Financial Crime Agency New Zealand (OFCANZ) seems to have forgotten or ignored Kim Dotcom's Permanent Resident status when it asked local spooks to tap his phones, according to a document posted online detailing arguments in the case. The document (PDF) uses the same format as other New Zealand court …

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Mushroom

To be fair...

...they were probably too busy counting sheep!!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: To be fair...

Wallys with brollys.

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Facepalm

The opportunities for bad puns aside, this whole thing proves either a stunning amount of incompetence, or an amazing disregard for proper procedure.

I wonder how big the backlash of this is going to be.

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More importantly, how often has this happened before?

Are New Zealander communications being snooped on routinely because of a general culture of don't-ask-don't-tell when determining the legality?

Are they just intercepting anything and everything?

It looks like a complete, public judicial review is needed for every single act of interception performed in NZ for the last decade at least.

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Re: More importantly, how often has this happened before?

Government monitoring its citizen are done for the good of the people. :-P

Soon NZ will have secret court like the UK soon to be.

Be thankful you've big brother to look after you.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: More importantly, how often has this happened before?

"Are they just intercepting anything and everything?"

Given their (and the SIS) history (muldoon era paranoia): Yes - that's what they were setup to do.

Based on personal experience: Yes (NZ govt ministers don't take kindly to publically being asked how big the backhanders they're receiving are)

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FAIL

Baby you're a Firework

The unbelievable thing about this whole debacle is that nearly everyone *knew*Kim Dotcom was a resident - that's why he sponsored the 2010 New Year's Eve firework display to the tune of $500,000 NZ - a celebration of his residency being granted. A small sum of money, easily missed.

The GCSB is not permitted by law to spy on NZ passport holders or permanent residents. There's another organisation dedicated to that though, so we can all sleep uneasily. The whole commando style raid followed by this shenanigans and the way that NZ is sucking up to Hollywood/Uncle Sham makes me wanna puke. Thought I'd left that kind of shit behind in the UK.

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Re: Baby you're a Firework

Steve? Steeeeeeeeve?

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Re: Baby you're a Firework

And, here, I thought you were a Katy Perry fan!!!

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Convenient

It's called plausible deniability and will be used whenever convenient.

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Re: Convenient

That was what I first thought too. Far better to 'fess up to a little incompetence and mis-communication; even if you have to make up the documentation in retrospect.

If it were done deliberately; there'd be charges to answer. And Dotcom has some reasonably good lawyers.

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Thumb Up

One upside

Dotcom is an oafish crook, of that I'm sure. I'm not defending the stupid DMCA style laws he's being accused of breaking, but I am convinced that he's as ethical as the investigation him was competent.Between a self-appointed Robin Hood camera hog and NZ spies and police looking like Clouseau on a bad day there has at least been one upside. While the government, having attached itself to the anal sphincter of Unca Sam, may be able to bully and coerce the police into doing as Hollywood/DC tells them, the judiciary has seized the opportunity to show that it truly is independent. In fact, the various judges involved almost seem to be enjoying the chance to do their job according to the letter of the law, as if embarrassing the political stooges behind this fiasco was just a delightful perk of doing their duty. Not many non-kiwis will get the reference, but at least our judges would definitely seem NOT to be on Planet Key.

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FAIL

Seriously how hard is it double check things like this using a checklist?

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Big Brother

"Ask me no question and I'll tell you know lies."

Perhaps it was a cock-up. Or perhaps someone did check the list and simply didn't like the results.

"I have principles. If you don't like them, I have others"

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Coat

Well, well

This is turning into an giant clusterfuck, isn't it?

How long before the whole thing gets thrown out and Dotcom sues the arse off NZ?

And then, in order to extradite, the US will need to find a citizen of a third country who's willing to claim that she was shagged by Dotcom without a condom.

Oh wait...

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Mushroom

Re: Well, well

"I was gang-raped by Kim DotCom and Julian Assange while the crew of the Pirate Bay looked on!"

Ermahgerd! Let the shenanigans begin!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Well, well

Only if they dress as Jack Spratt and his wife. Who could eat no lean, as I am sure you can remember.

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The reality

They didn't bother.

This would be consistent with a massive armed raid - with M4s that fire 700 rounds per minute!

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Perhaps they didn't bother checking his citizenship status, since they already knew of his criminal convictions in Germany - which meant he shouldn't have qualified for a visa. That's the real story here, the way fat boy got his visa through greasing the palms of certain politicians.

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Jop
FAIL

Money has always been a help in getting a visa in most countries, either through the front door or back. There is no story of interest in this, it is irrelevant.

What is relevant is the possibility that a media company group in the US could have affected the politics of another country in such a way that it may remove someone from power along with damaging the reputation among the countries citizens towards various authorities.

The fact that Hollywood can get illegal things done in other countries via their government is shocking enough that now a whole country is behind Kim and against their own government.

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Oh Please

That's the real story here, the way fat boy got his visa through greasing the palms of certain politicians.

Countries giving visas in return for inward investment is common practice around the world.

http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/stream/invest/investment/investorplus/requirements.htm

if you have proof of politicians being bribed, you should share it with us.

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Pirate

"Perhaps they didn't bother checking his citizenship status, since they already knew of his criminal convictions in Germany - which meant he shouldn't have qualified for a visa. That's the real story here, the way fat boy got his visa through greasing the palms of certain politicians."

Seriously! Who does the government want moving to their country? Rich Germans or poor Afgans?

Kim is spending big in the country and the Afgans are on social security and government handouts. Big Kim was minding his own business when raided by the police by the orders of their American masters and the Afgans are chucking rocks at police cause someone in another country said nasty things about their religion.

I'd pick a German pirate over an Afgan terrorist any day

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Actually.. The real story is about a petty crook being "taken down" with an operation that would not have been out of place if mounted against a known dangerous well armed drug gang.

The guy was implicated in piracy. Not the "Arr Jim lad" type of piracy, but the "Oh noes.. someone is watching our stuff without paying" type of piracy.

Not a criminal offence. Not one in which violence can be expected.

One representative of the court sending one summons to appear in court to answer the charges.. Job done.

And while we are talking about greasing palms here.. How the hell does a copyright infringement case merit armed law enforcement and dawn raids by HELICOPTER!!!

Mine's the one with the big jar of Swarfega in the pocket.

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Re: And while we are talking about greasing palms here..

And while we are talking about greasing palms here.. How the hell does a copyright infringement case merit armed law enforcement and dawn raids by HELICOPTER!!!

Mine's the one with the big jar of Swarfega in the pocket.

In the video of the paramilitary operation, sorry, police raid you might be able to see that although the cops are using M4 carbines, they aren't wearing body armour. That would tend to say they didn't feel they were in danger of a shoot-up, and that this was more of a shock and awe thing...

Or maybe they just wanted to try out their toys. Using a chopper was TOTAL overkill though.

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Re: And while we are talking about greasing palms here..

"In the video of the paramilitary operation, sorry, police raid you might be able to see that although the cops are using M4 carbines, they aren't wearing body armour. "

That's because handguns are so tightly controlled in NZ as to be effectively nonexistant for all intents and purposes. OTOH body armour doesn't stop rifle rounds and kevlar in a gunshot wound is a nasty contaminant.

WRT overkill: this is par for the course. NZ police have a reputation for going well beyond the law, regularly taking the law into their own hands or behaving in a manner not able to be differentiated from the criminals they're supposed to be dealing with (especially when in groups and all fired up with testosterone).

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FAIL

Re: And while we are talking about greasing palms here..

That's because handguns are so tightly controlled in NZ as to be effectively nonexistant for all intents and purposes. OTOH body armour doesn't stop rifle rounds and kevlar in a gunshot wound is a nasty contaminant.

Sigh. If this was a forum you'd be looking at a :rolleyes: right about here.

By that logic no cop would ever wear body armour 'cos there wouldn't be any point in case you run into somebody with a flamethrower or a T72 tank. FFS.

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Re: And while we are talking about greasing palms here..

"Body armour doesn't stop rifle rounds..................."

You might like to tell the boys in Afghan to stop wearing theirs then, as that's mostly what they're up against. Rifles, machine guns (rifle ammunication). Whilst body armour doesn't stop all rifle rounds (won't stop some pistol ammunition either), it does stop a lot and there's plenty of examples of that from the boys in Afghan who have thanked god they have to wear it.

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Re: And while we are talking about greasing palms here..

NZ cops only wear body armour when they know they're going up against pistols. The rest of the time it gets in the way. Remember it's a country where the cops don't carry weapons (although the boot of most patrol cars have gunsafes in them) and civilians get highly irritated if they see cops toting pistols without a bloody good reason ("Because I might need it" isn't good enough).

Military body armour is a completely different item to civilian stuff and it doesn't help against a close range shotgun (which is what the cops thought they might be facing).

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Facepalm

You know he's bad, so bad, you know it!

The first 2 lines of the WhackoJacko song seem kind of appropriate too. <LOL>

It seems to me that there have been a whole passel of clusterfucks right across the board along with some peddling of political influence done by individuals and governments. The vast selection of crimes committed by certain government officials of New Zealand will become a long drawn out affair on the level of our very own Leveson Enquiry and Operation Weeting.

Maybe Dotcom is a crook, maybe he isn't, but either way his rights got trampled on like an empty beer can at a rock festival, and in the process thousands if not millions of people lost access to their personal data (some legal, some not).

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Facepalm

It seems that the NZ officials are every bit as incapable, clueless, and out of control as our own. Depressing for the Kiwis, I'm sure, to be on a par with the FBI.

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Happy

Dear John

Oh, how I hate to write,

This pig will not fly tonight.

If you do read this, Mr.Key, The best thing to do is to tell the FBI branch of the RIAA to forget it. It can only get worse, and you have more important things to do.

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Mission Impossible or when Hairy met Silly?

700 rounds per minute.

Where would you use a weapon like that?

And how?

That sort of thing was originally designed to clean trenches in WW1. A war were poison gas was legal.

Since then, their accuracy has been marginally improved. I wouldn't know by how much but in WW2 they were used for house to house fighting. Nobody was going to worry about women and children in that sort of scenario were they?

And not at 700 rpm these day too, neither!

Not even including time to reload and catch breath while surging on adrenaline.

Never mind the psychology involved. You permit men willing and able to kill with fury-aforethought to trample all over a country park with or without children and or pregnant women abounding and what could happen next?

What IS possible (never mind the "we are well trained and competent" bit, even if you can prove it by not killing people you ended up kicking shit out of) what can happen?

Someone having a bad day falls over in his haste and a gun goes bang. What next?

WTF was nobody thinking?

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Anonymous Coward

Now that they have the passport thingy sorted out...

...arrest and prosecute him for massive piracy. There is no reason why he should escape punishment for his crimes.

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