back to article 7 English cities grab £12m for 'cash back' Green Deals

Seven English cities will receive a share of a £12m funding package to allow them to support and test the launch of the government's flagship Green Deal programme in their regions, the energy secretary has announced. Edward Davey said that the funding would enable the cities, each of which received devolved growth powers as part …

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Ugh

Oh great. Way to accelerate the destruction of our built heritage with more plastic windows replacing wooden ones. It's a curse. Double glazing can be done in an aesthetic manner - I've just had five large wooden sash windows fitted in a small Edinburgh flat - but will people spend a few quid more to save later (given the unmaintainability of plastic windows) and also vastly improve the appearance of their building? Mostly no. And there's seemingly little encouragement to do so.

</rant>

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Ugh

Don't worry, probably won't happen.

Green deal requires the work to pay for itself from the savings, and I think it will be rare that the savings of double glazing would be paid for from the energy bill. Taking a hypothetical Victorian three floor semi, the energy savings of going from single glazed through to wide gap low E double glazing will only be of the order of £350 a year, plus perhaps another £100 a year from better draught proofing of modern window units.

I don't know how much DG would cost for that, but I'm guessing of the order of £12k minimum, which over ten years at 8% would be around £1800 a year. Even if I'm out by a factor of 3 on the heat loss calcs (and I don't think I am), it still won't cut it for a green deal loan unless there's additional grant money on the table to the tune of about five grand or more.

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Anonymous Coward

Birmingham, Bristol, Leeds, Manchester, Newcastle, Nottingham and Sheffield.

Trying to win over Labour strongholds are we? Bit pointless as most of the Tory voters from those areas have moved to the South East.

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Silver badge
Megaphone

Another rip off!

For those not familiar with "Green Deal" the principle is that if there's "renewable generation" involved, or energy saving possibilities (from a goverment approved list), you can have your property assessed by a government approved assessor, borrow the money to have work done (by government approved suppliers only), and then have your super-competent energy company take the money off you, including interest over the life of the asset. It'll be more expensive than adding the debt to a mortgage, cheaper than a personal loan, and be available to tenants in the same way. If you move house the debt is supposed to stay with the property, but there is some form of recourse to the householders in some situations, so be warned.

Problem is, this replaces CERT and CESP schemes that at the moment are offering free cavity and loft insulation for most eligible people, and additionally some support vulnerable customers (because that's not the job of the welfare state, is it now?). CERT and CESP are funded from a circa 15% rake off of your energy bill, but at least the money goes back to consumers. At the end of this year, those schemes stop, and if you want cavity wall or loft top up insulation (current standards are around a foot on insulation in the loft) you'll be paying the full wack. SO IF YOU WANT THOSE DOING FREE OR DISCOUNTED, ACT NOW - you don't need to get your own energy supplier to do it, just phone round all of them, and go with a name you're happy with).

Of course, the 15% rake off will continue - but that's now being hoovered up by DECC's stupid feed in tarriffs, in small part supporting middle class eco-twerps, but much more significantly all the government's subsidies for crap like wind power. I expect the lower end of the home improvements market to mis-sell crappy home "improvements", leaving the gullible out of pocket, to boot, in the same way that solar panels have thus far often been mis-sold. For some improvements you will also have to contribute up front if the energy savings won't pay for it all (eg in the case of double glazing).

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Anonymous Coward

Good Odds

I'll lay good odds that Sheffield council will manage to A) make money out of this themselves, B) manage to arrange for everyone's energy bills to increase to pay for the "improvements" to the houses/flats they use for their pet minority groups.

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Silver badge

Re: Good Odds

"manage to arrange for everyone's energy bills to increase to pay for the "improvements" "

Not through this they won't. The whole point is that DECC are arranging to divert the "extras" already on your energy bill from paying for insulation, to paying subsidies to the large companies operating windfarms and the like. The green deal work proposed on houses should be paid for entirely by the householder, and if they don't pay, then the green deal organisation takes the loss, not the energy companies, who merely act as revenue collectors. The debt doesn't sit on the energy companies balance sheets, or even the "green deal providers" who will promote the scheme.

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Bronze badge

There is no excuse for anyone not to have taken advantage of the free loft/cavity wall (if they have one) insulation this year, I even had my local county council call up and offer it to me.

I just wish they HAD included windows in the offering, my biggest heat loss is some draughty old 1930's tin windows I just cannot afford to replace - at least not for the next few years as I am saving up to pay an exorbitant visa fee for my foreign-born wife (~ £2k due in March 2014).

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Silver badge

Problem is the cost of DG.

CWI and loft insulation cost relatively little (say £500 per average house for CWI), and £200 for loft insulation, but deliver big benefits for years, perhaps cash savings around £250 a year. That's a great payback even if you had to pay it yourself, but in terms of £ per kg of CO2 that the bureaucrats of DECC consider it is still great value when funded from the CERT scheme.

DG costs perhaps four grand per average house and saves somewhat less than CWI, so the payback is usually greater than the expected life of the windows (ie a 25-30 year payback), even where the existing glass is single glazed. Acrylic secondary glazing might just wash its face, but usually looks grotty and isn't popular.

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Unhappy

oh FFS!

I've spent a year or more telling cavity wall installers and PPI "ambulance" chasers to piss off! I'm fed up with the government announcing these schemes that do nothing but generate nusiance 'silent' phone calls for me.

"According to our records..." No, I've never had PPI, your records are WRONG, and don't I want cavity wall insulation.

Go away! Leave me alone!

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