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back to article Pirate Bay’s neo-Nazi sugar daddy files for bankruptcy

The millionaire financier of scofflaw torrent site The Pirate Bay has filed for personal bankruptcy. Carl Lundström, an heir to the Wasabröd crispbread fortune, was the most visible of the Pirate Bay four, and oversaw the internet sites' business operations, helping to funnel revenue overseas to avoid paying corporation tax, as …

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Freedom of speech

So which copyright materials have TPB directly infringed by distributing themselves ? Clearly their 'crime' is to state where stuff, some of which rights owners don't want you to have, is made available. That's a bit like locking someone up for telling an undercover cop in a pub the name of someone who distributes dodgy DVDs. Why not go after the distributor ?

It's not exactly shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre is it ? That's the classic case arguing for for limits of freedom of speech, but this isn't an issue of public safety. So since when did copyright trump other human rights ? I don't read copyright as being in the ECHR or the US Bill of Rights in any sense directly, and it's not as if non-commercial distribution of IP prevents commercial use.

The fact one of their founders has legally supported some disreputable guys in a different area entirely really isn't in the slightest bit relevant here is it ? It's really just a way of asking us to ignore the important issues in this particular case by puffing out a smokescreen isn't it ?

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Facepalm

Re: Freedom of speech

"So which copyright materials have TPB directly infringed by distributing themselves?"

None.

"Clearly their 'crime' is to state where stuff, some of which rights owners don't want you to have, is made available."

Nope.

"That's the classic case arguing for for limits of freedom of speech, but this isn't an issue of public safety."

Nor is it a case of free speech.

"It's really just a way of asking us to ignore the important issues in this particular case by puffing out a smokescreen isn't it ?"

Nope.

The important issue in this case has been effectively ignored by people around the 'net for a long time ALL BY THEMSELVES.

Fact 1: TPB - the people involved with it - was not convicted for spreading copyrighted material.

Fact 2: They WERE convicted for knowingly assisting others in doing so.

In other words: what TPB did was link to material but, as opposed to others, refuse to REMOVE links when informed the material on the other end was in violation of copyright.

The way the case was handled, on the other hand, stinks to high heaven, but that's a different matter. Had the TPB Four, when notified of copyright violations, blocked the torrents in question they would have been in the clear. Now? Now they are considered to have willingly AND knowingly helped out.

So keep knickers untwisted, eh?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Freedom of speech

For years TPB ran the Torrent trackers which were required to make bit torrent work. No trackers, no torrent. Had they not done this, they would have had a much better leg to stand on.

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WTF?

Wow

"The Pirate Bay made considerable profits from directing users to artistic material - but failed to pay the artists."

Hahaha. Next thing you know, torrent sites will be stealing candies from school kids.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Wow

Torrent sites stole my car.

They downloaded it right off my drive.

True story.

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Heir to the Wasabröd crispbread fortune

He sounds crackers to me.

Boom, tish!

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Joke

I guess that makes him...

...brokec?

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Silver badge
Paris Hilton

If AIPAC supported TPB instead of the Wasa Guy...

Would one hear about that particular association?

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Stop

Irrelevant - that's why

RE "The 47-year old far-right sympathizer has funded racist and extremist groups in Sweden – a fact coyly ignored by copyright activists and Pirate Bay supporters"

Just what are you suggesting Mr. Orlowski, should he receive a harsher sentence for piracy because he has a particular opinion in an unrelated area that you'd like to thought criminalise? Must fellow pirates feel compelled to distance themselves from him over this unrelated issue, sparking dissent in their ranks which is precisely the goal of their anti-piracy opponents? Any group that attempts to unite people around one issue will have a diversity of opinion in all unrelated areas.

This fact is not "coyly ignored", it is ignored because it is irrelevant. If you believe otherwise then please present some evidence showing a correlation, or better still, a causal link between one set of political views and the likelihood of committing or supporting piracy. In the absence of such evidence then we must assume there is no correlation.

"Extremist" is a relative word. Many opinions now classed as extremist by those who wish to corral or claim to represent "public opinion" were once foundational beliefs of societies past. Historically most societies have valued what differentiates them from other societies over what they have in common with each other.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Irrelevant - that's why

I think that what he's suggesting is that a large amount of people who use TPB would not use any other services supplied by someone with far right politics, this fact is conveniently ignored by people in order that they can get their free stuff.

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Big Brother

Pirate sites and drug dealers

I see the concept of prosecuting for running this sort of site extremely disturbing. I asked my brother who is in the Police whether, as an analogy, someone who set up a website (lets say: mylocaldrugdealer.co.uk) that acted as a directory site for drug dealers in your area would be breaking the law. His answer was - without actually checking - he would say that there is nothing illegal about that, so long as you're not actually involved in the supply of drugs themselves (This of course leaves aside the fact that the police would love for someone to be so stupid as to set such a website up)

My point is though, if it's not illegal to do so for drugs, then what is so bad about doing so with media? I'm sure you could argue it either way: That both sites should be illegal, but I take the view that there is nothing wrong with signposting illegal materials, only consuming them.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Pirate sites and drug dealers

They were involved in the distribution, they ran the torrent trackers.

AFAIK It is specifically illegal to facilitate the committing of a crime, which copyright infringement is.

I also, strongly suspect that your brother was wrong, because it could be argued that you've entered into a conspiracy or that you know that a crime is taking place and that you've failed to inform the Police, which is also a crime.

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Silver badge

Re: Pirate sites and drug dealers

Your brother probably isn't a lawyer. A lawyer would very likely used words like 'accessory' or 'conspiracy to commit a crime' and it's unlikely the site would stay up for long. (Except as a honey pot.)

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Boffin

Re: Re: Pirate sites and drug dealers

"....your brother was wrong...." Yes and no. A copper mate says it would be incitement if you advertised the site elsewhere or on the site itself as being for the purpose of enabling the sale of illegal drugs. Just listing dealers, their names and addresses and pager numbers would not constitute a crime in itself, though the dealers would probably not be too happy.

The difference is TPB enabled the copying of copywrit material. This would be the equivalent of having a links on your list of dealers saying "contact this dealer here to buy drugs". The fact that TPB also charged for the service shows they benefitted from the service and offered it with the intent of enabling.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Pirate sites and drug dealers

"[....] facilitate the committing of a crime, which copyright infringement is."

True.

Funny though, now that you mention... I do not particularly remember "We will make copyright infringement a crime" appearing in the electoral promises of any parties. I also seem to have missed the public demonstrations, the clamour, and all the citizen petitions demanding that copyright infringement shall be made a crime and not the mere civil matter that it's always been.

If you were paranoid, you would think that someone has been gaming the system... and what legitimacy does a corrupted system have?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Pirate sites and drug dealers

@AC2114: Yes, you ignore the political processes of a country for only a decade or two and see what happens...

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So TPB ends...

and another site will come in and take it's place. So goes the Cycle of Copy Right Infringement lawsuits.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: So TPB ends...

So your argument is: All laws will be broken, so there's no point in enforcing any laws?

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Facepalm

Re: So TPB ends...

I heard this saying regarding assuming. What is it again?

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Silver badge
Facepalm

Re: So TPB ends...

@AC 17:27

Wow.

Just... wow.

That is the most spectacular combination of strawman and reductio ad absurdum that I have ever seen.

I'm not even going to dignify that with a rebuttal.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: So TPB ends...

Err... That was a rebuttal though, wasn't it?

I wouldn't say it was a straw man as your argument seems to be - the law will be broken, someone else will break it one this lot have been dealt with, I presumed you were asking therefore what's the point of prosecuting?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: So TPB ends...

"I'm not even going to dignify that with a rebuttal."

Ditto.

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Anonymous Coward

Some folks are very cornfused...

Facilitating piracy - as TPB did and was convicted for, has absolutely nothing to do with free speech. Copyright laws prevent unauthorised use or distribution of protected art. TPB thought they were above the law and the judicial system proved them wrong. As we see everyday, those who chose to violate copyright laws get stiff fines and some even go to prison. Stupidity and denial are not an effective legal defense.

BTW, transferring personal assets to other family members does NOT prevent those assets from being seized to pay fines/damages accessed by the courts or governments.

Look it up.

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Silver badge
Thumb Down

To be Far Right in Sweden...

... one merely has to express the opinion that taxes might be too high and that the government should not be in the position to seriously debate whether men should be forced to sit down while taking a piss.

This label is meaningless and is purely used to denigrate and dismiss someone Andrew Orlowski does not like.

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(Written by Reg staff) Gold badge

Re: To be Far Right in Sweden...

A quick look at this guy's history would show you that the label is meaningful.

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Silver badge

Re: To be Far Right in Sweden...

He may well be the lovechild of engels and hitler and have genghis khan as his godfather, but that doesn't mean the label hasn't become meaningless. The "far right" label is so abused in Swedish politics these days that my cynicism meter pegs as soon as I hear it. When it can encompass everything from being an actual jew-hating neo-nazi who wants to restart the ovens to being someone who considers that perhaps the government should be a little less involved in the citizen's daily life - that is, when it can mean just about anything the speaker wants it to mean - it is, by definition, meaningless.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: To be Far Right in Sweden...

@Graham. Have a read of this, complete with cited sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Lundström

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Silver badge

Dizzying Spin always has a Truth Counterpart to do Battle with, to Give Itself a Short Shell Life

Err .....is not "Warg has since returned to Sweden after being arrested in Cambodia.", a tad intelligent information light, Andrew, with his being extraordinarily rendered a much more accurate report and description ...... and a much more exciting and sensational tale to boot, which would tend to confirm that old adage ... "Truth is stranger than fiction" ...... although most certainly no stranger to fiction?

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Pirate

Hmmn ...

So, if donating to the Swedish National Democrats makes one a Neo-Nazi, does that make everyone who supports the British Labour or Tory Party a War-Criminal?

Or is the collective guilt by association theory and defamation dressed as reporting only applicable to Johnny Foreigner?

And is it only theoretical thought-crimes which the crusading holier-than-thou Reg hacks feel safe to attack, as opposed to the truly monumental real ones they habitually support and cover for?

~~~

PS: Regardless of any other politics, I heartily congratule Mr Lundström on his not giving the Swedish State/MAFIAA even the monetary steam off his shit re. TPB.

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Anonymous Coward

Mr. Lundstrum to pay more than he thinks

Lundstrum is going to lose all of the assets he transferred as this is the law. So he will be paying all of his fine and then some. There is no bankruptcy protection and those transfers constitute another crime of bankruptcy fraud so Mr. Lundstrum is headed for more legal problems.

Well done lad. Next time you might want to buy a clue before you decide that you're above the law.

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Anonymous Coward

How's that denial working?

I wonder how that denial mentality is working for The Pirate Bay boys these days...

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