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back to article Freeview kit to require retune tomorrow

Freeview viewers, prepare to retune your equipment. The terrestrial digital TV platform will require yet another channel check tomorrow to implement changes made to its electronic programme guide. TVs with digital tuners and set-top boxes not set to automatically spot the change and to retune accordingly, will require manual …

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Still a mess. Why is shopping classed as "general entertainment"?

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Facepalm

'Why is shopping classed as "general entertainment"?'

Tell me this isn't entertaining?

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RE: Why is shopping classed as "general entertainment"?

You have met the fairer sex right?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: RE: Why is shopping classed as "general entertainment"?

Fairer sex was also in the 95ish range (Babestation) - I'm guessing that's being moved out of the general entertainment area

(not that I've ever watched it. I got home drunk and went channel surfing. Wouldn't pay for it. Why would you when you've got the Internet. That's my story and I'm sticking to it)

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Paris Hilton

'Fairer sex was also in the 95ish range'

I prefer them quite a bit younger

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Babestation

Babestation is a total misnomer.

I watched it once and didn't see a single babe. Didn't see any trains, either.

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Again and again and again

Being in the north-east, I had to retune last week for the start of the analogue shut-down, this week for the EPG reshuffle and next week for the completion of the analogue shut-down! We should make it a weekly Wednesday we-tune! (sorry)

There's hundreds of adverts and notices around saying to retune on the 12th and 26th, it wouldn't have been hard to add the 19th to the posters would it?

Fun fun fun!

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Meh

Re: Again and again and again

I did see the article and think "oh, it's Wednesday, must be re-tune time..."

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Re: Again and again and again

If you have to retune again on the 26th then why did they not leave the EPG change until then? It is only 8 days away surely this would have made more sense and been better for tjhe users?

Is there some technical reason why it could not have been done?

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Re: Again and again and again

Okay 8 days from now, 7 from the retune. Must concentrate more.

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Re: Again and again and again @Ragarath

Is there some technical reason why it could not have been done?

I can only hope so but I can't think what it could be - unless lack of common sense is a technical reason?

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Re: Again and again and again @Ragarath

Well, it's now the 20th here. No retune notices either. Also, Dave is still on 19.

Looks like they've not done the EPG change here this week, probably next week. I wonder if they could have made the process any more confusing or inconsistent.

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This post has been deleted by its author

FAIL

Now I'll need to spend ages *again* deleting all the shite off the EPG.

Sometimes I really miss the simplicity of four channels.

*Offers Spangles around*

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Coat

Four?

When I were a lad we only had to cope with two which was confusing enough. Mind, we had to point the aerial in different directions for each of them which encouraged picking one of them and staying with it.

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Anonymous Coward

Thanks for the Sweetie

can I have a ride in your motor?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Four?

We used to Drrreeeeaaammm of having 2 channels.

We used to sit in a darkened room with a big cardboard box in't corner wi' an 'ole in it. And when our dad got home he would put on a mangy old glove wi' faces drawn on't fingers, stick it through 'ole and jiggle his fingers to re-anct forsyt' saga - AND he used to have to do adverts about InjuryClaims and QuickLoans himself too.

If we asked him to change channel he would say 'what f***ing channel would that be then - smartarse?" and give us some 'forsyt justice' by punching us in the face wearing the puppet glove.

But you tell that to the kids of today ......

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Re: Four?

Big cardboard box?

Luxury!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Four?

"When I were a lad we only had to cope with two which was confusing enough"

yes, but one was the BBC and we didn't watch the other as it contained stuff for common people!

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Re: Can I have a ride in your motor

Charlie says that you shouldn't go off with someone you don't know. <Cue image of cat balancing a fish reward on his nose>

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There are definitely some advantages in living in a Freeview lite area!

Plus, get yourself freesat and the EPG is already pretty sensible.

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Boffin

'There was strong support for this aspect of DMOL‟s proposals, with almost all respondents,

including all the providers of shopping channels, agreeing that DMOL should not create a

dedicated shopping genre as a result of this review. A variety of reasons were cited for this

view.

The providers of shopping channels considered that the DMOL research suggests that there

is no consumer demand for the genre. They also cited the economic damage to their

businesses, from reduced viewing levels and reduced revenue, which would result from the

creation of a shopping genre. One shopping channel provider pointed out the importance of

scrolling behaviour and suggested that viewers tend not to scroll beyond LCNs 40 to 50, so

any move to a higher LCN would be very damaging to their business. QVC estimated that a

35% to 40% turnover loss would result from creation of a dedicated genre and said that they

would also incur marketing costs to publicise the new LCN numbers. A shopping channel

provider provided evidence of the revenue loss to one of their channels when it changed

LCN numbers and suggested that this revenue loss was not temporary but permanent. '

Well I thought the same but it appears they would see 40% loss of sales if we didn't trip over the shopping channels (their value is so transitory with their clients ) , though I suspect the QVC's of this world contribute a fair sum towards freeview costs.

Lets hope so...., kryters..... must ..... talk ..in.. sync!

gotta use the techie icon!

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Anonymous Coward

re: Why Not

"The providers of shopping channels considered that the DMOL research suggests that there

is no consumer demand for the genre."

So, even the shopping channels conclude there is no need for self existence?

I think therefore I cease.....

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Re: re: Why Not

Really? Has *anyone* ever watched the shopping channels (for anything other than entertainment, at least) since we first got them on Sky Analogue all those years ago when I was still a kid?

Overpriced tat. Complicated buying structures. Expensive postage and phone lines. Over-eager American salesmen demonstrating how wonderful a ceramic frying pan "holds heat for longer" without any mention that it takes longer to warm up (ya cannae beat the laws of physics, Jim) with THE most false product appraisals and "smiles" ever in the history of the planet.

I watch them to play the "contradiction" game - where you and a friend sit and watch them (presumably when NOTHING else is on) and point out the scientific flaws and what they actually mean when they say "It's 50% better" or whatever and point out the holes in their sales pitches.

Apart from that, who on Earth would watch them? It's like a Betterware catalogue on the TV, but not quite so classy.

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Re: re: Why Not

> who on Earth would watch them?

Sadly it's like email spam for Viagra. Believe it or not, they do get enough responses to make a profit and keep going, and in the case of Freeview that contributes towards the funding of the system.

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Re: re: Why Not

I thought freeview was funded by sky adverts "Watch this fantastic new programme on..."

Mine you even the beeb is advertising some Sky programs.

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Perhaps...

...they should put ALL the adverts onto the shopping channel, then put them onto channel 9999, which is only available in the cellar with no lighting, in a locked filing cabinet inside a disused lavatory behind a sign saying 'Beware of the leopard'.

I mean, who would have suspected that people don't actually want to watch channels composed entirely of advertising? If I wanted to be lied to, I'd write to my MP.

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Re: re: Why Not

You get them on freesat - in their own genre - but along with the god-bothering channels - they get deleted if ever there's a need to retune.

I suppose someone must use them - they're clearly viable as commercial enterprises.

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Vic
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Re: re: Why Not

> who on Earth would watch them?

STB development engineers.

The shopping channels are transmitted in the clear, with plenty of power, plenty of bandwidth, ES transmitted such that A/V sync is barely needed, ...

In short, the shopping channels are the first thing you watch when bringing up a new decoder. And you'll tend to keep watching them for a few weeks as you get the rest of the stuff working. And before you know it, various members of the team are getting their credit cards out :-(

Vic.

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Vic
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Re: re: Why Not

> they do get enough responses to make a profit and keep going

Keep going?

Channels like QVC are the big earners...

Vic.

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WTF?

HD Channels moving or not moving?

Confusingly contradicting "The Register" this site says the HD channels won't be moving as originally planned. If shit is the case then I'm not inclined to retune and have the hassle of deleting all the crud off my EPG and reprogramming all the series links.

http://www.a516digital.com/2012/09/freeview-epg-reshuffle-q.html

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Facepalm

Re: HD Channels moving or not moving?

I meant of course "if this is the case" - oops!

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Unhappy

Re: HD Channels moving or not moving?

You were right first time - plenty more shit to go through and remove from EPG - AGAIN!

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What annoys me with all these retune stuff is that it means that I have to make note of all my series linked stuff and reenter them in again. It's a long list. Why can't it be like Sky?

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Sounds like that mist be an issue with your hardware more than with Freeview.

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Anonymous Coward

I don't have to do this with MythTV, it retunes and everything that was set to record carries on as before. Sounds like your hardware remembers stuff against the channel number instead of its callsign, which is silly since the channels can change.

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It's a DigitalStream box.

Someone on the AVForums reckoned it should only require an Update Scan (so retaining the schedule) as the "LCN" (or some acronym like that) is the only thing that has changed, not the muxes or frequencies, etc.

God knows. I just know that on one of the previous major changes, it wiped the schedule.

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Unhappy

Shopping Channels The Only Comedy These Days?

The great digital disaster has been a royal pain in the fingers if not the behind, perhaps that is why I now have trigger finger and am waiting for the next injection?

With all the other crap on at the moment does now one else find the only comedy these days is to turn off the sound and watch the prats on the shopping channels miming how much crap they are trying to shift?

Whether I shall bother to re-tune is as yet an open issue.

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If I get rid of my digital Freeview box, leaving me with a plasma screen that has no tuner (either digital or analogue), can I cancel my TV license? It's got to the point where the only time I turn on the telly is to use it as a screen for the home brewed juke box or to play games on my PS3, leaving me to wonder what I pay the TV license fee for.

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Yes you can, you only need a TV licence to watch LIVE content (no matter which device this comes from)

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No need to lose the tuner....

You are free to get rid of the license at ANY time so long as you do not watch or record TV broadcasts (using any device) whilst they are being broadcast....

You are free to keep the freeview to listen to the radio if you were so inclined.

Unfortunately, TVL will not spell this information out clearly an unambiguously and will try and convince you that you must somehow PROVE to them that you no longer need a license (even resorting to faux legal threats of court summons and "investigations being opened"...

Reality is a bitch (for them) -The onus is on THEM to prove you ARE breaking the law, NOT for YOU to prove that your AREN'T breaking the law!

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Re: No need to lose the tuner....

I just wrote a letter to TVL telling them why I don't need a licence, not heard from them since. Haven't had a licence for over 3 years now

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FAIL

Get rid of the +1 channels please

For a broadcast medium with a limited bandwidth, why are there still multiple +1 channels, including Channel 4 +1, Channel 5 +1, E4 +1, ITV1 +1, and ITV2 +1. I've give Dave Ja Vu a break because it's only 2am to 4am.

I guess they're lower bitrates than the non +1 channels, but even so we could have a couple more music channels (the Freeview selection being extremely limited and pop-oriented (not that much music is shown these days, so let's call them "teen channels" I guess)).

Maybe a single "ITV Highlights / Catch-up" channel, with the best stuff from all the ITV channels. Same for the BBC actually, and maybe C4 could have one for all of its channels. But not +1...

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Re: Get rid of the +1 channels please

Because often two programmes you want to watch are on at the same time on different channels?

Why am I explaining this?

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TRT
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Re: Get rid of the +1 channels please

I had to buy a new freeview box as my old one was fritzed. This new one has a brilliant HD/SD setting which automagically tracks programs onto an HD alternative channel. Brilliant! I was watching a program on BBC Four, and the box flipped over to BBC HD, then back again when it had finished. At least having 101 for BBC1HD and 103 for ITV1HD etc will make life easier on the non-magic box in the other room.

Mind you, I saw something I've never seen before last night on a +1 channel. It said "This program cannot be shown on a +1 channel for legal reasons." Hmm...

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Joke

Re: Get rid of the +1 channels please

It's so we can now update Springsteen's song and have 114 channels and nothing on.

Not that it's a cheap and easy way to fill up the bandwidth rather than actually make/buy some actual new programmes of course.

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Re: Get rid of the +1 channels please

I think this is to do with broadcasting rights.

Channels buy the right to broadcast a movie, for example, once. To show it on the +1 channel counts as second broadcast instance and, therefore, they would be required to pay a second fee to show it on that channel.

I reckon this will settle once the contracts etc. have been updated to include the +1 channels. The contracts are agreed months/years in advance (as is the way with big businesses and their legal depts.) and these were likely drawn up before the +1 channels became properly established and, therefore, the legality of showing the program twice is a grey area, leading to broadcasters not wanting to take the chance on being charged twice by the owners of the rights to the movie.

I'm guessing here so, if anyone knows for sure, I'd be keen to hear what the acutal facts are.

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Re: Get rid of the +1 channels please

Yeah, so I watch a 90 minute film, and still miss the show that started on the other channel.

+1 channels are a ridiculous waste of valuable bandwidth. Get a dual-tuner Freeview recorder, or use a catchup service like iPlayer, 4od, ITV Player, etc.

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Re: Get rid of the +1 channels please

A waste of valuable bandwidth? Not as much as iplayer etc are to us that live in t'cuntry.

If your worried about bandwidth see earlier comments on shopping channels..

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Re: Get rid of the +1 channels please

Never seen a movie denied +1 broadcasting rights, its always the gambling shows with live results.

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