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back to article Listen up, Nokia: Get Lumia show-offs in pubs or it's game over

Nokia has a couple of mountains to climb. There's the real mountain: in the marketplace it's starting from scratch, a newcomer that just happens to have a large distribution business in place, and a couple of billion euros in capital. Then there's the metaphorical mountain, which is a mountain of cliches. For Nokia to survive it …

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Anonymous Coward

A phone with garish colours and 2011 specs

is always going to be two years behind the curve. dual core and 8MP camera with backlighting are nothing new. If you really like silly colours for your phone, then buy a £2 ebay bumper....

Windows Phone is a disaster zone. Consumers know that. No amount of pubs displays are going to change that. Too many potential "tech" customers that might have been silly enough to trust a Microsoft mobile OS were burnt badly by the Windows Phone 7/7.5 dead-end last time around.

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Pint

Re: A phone with garish colours and 2011 specs

those dual cores are Kraits. which for the less informed, stack up rather favourably against the nvidia and samsung quad core a9's.

on the hardware front, there is nothing to complain about.

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Anonymous Coward

Put 8 core, 8 Gb RAM

I heard you can't keep Skype running all times, nothing like Android services or true multitasking symbian.

So, they have wasted hardware.

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Silver badge

Re: Put 8 core, 8 Gb RAM

I heard you can't keep Skype running all times

Well, that must be true then.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Put 8 core, 8 Gb RAM

Don't worry, Skype has gone downhill so badly lately that it finds new and exciting ways to misbehave on iOS and Android too. Stuff that used to work is now broken.

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Silver badge

Stuff that used to work is now broken.

... and Extinguish.

Or at least, damp down until it produces no usable heat or light.

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Even if they drop the garish colors...

...as long as Elop insists on WindPhone OS and nothing else, there won't be many Nokia buyers.

Why doesn't Nokia get smart and offer a few OS choices...

Like Samsung... throw a lot of stuff on the wall and make more of those things that stick.

Sure got them to #1...

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Silver badge

An 820 with the proper pureview sensor from the 808 with the lens from the 920 would be enough to tempt me when my contract runs out. That's not for over a year though.

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@ james51

IF WP8 can:

- full bluetooth transfer including syncing

- NFC compatible between other Nokia models e.g. C7/701

- 2-way call recording

- full multitasking (like Windows Mobile or Symbian)

- Outlook USB syncing

THEN :

I might be tempted to look at it

BUT:

Only if Nokia take appropriate actions to get my Lumia 800 back. Nokia, I brought this 02/2012 device in for repair end of June... It's now early September 2012 and I STILL HAVEN'T got it back (repaired or unrepaired)!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: @ james51

Nokia's shitty service was the last straw for me, and why I stopped buying Nokia and bought an Android device. They kept promising to respond within forty-eight hours, but never did. They were able to use the supplied info to send me plenty of SMS spam in the small hours, though,

So screw Nokia. They did me a favour, as it turns out.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: @ james51

Apple's shitty service was the last straw for me, and why I stopped buying Apple and bought a Windows Phone device. They kept promising to respond with 14 days, but returned the device unrepaired every time.

htc on the other hand sent a replacement 7 Mozart handset when they picked up the defective one.

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Anonymous Coward

I think it looks quite nice, but I'd rather it ran Android than Windows... I don't like the tiles, I prefer my old fashioned icons and the very handy widgets in Android...

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Unhappy

So, it has come to this

At least with the old black models you could cover up or scrape off the embarrassing windows logo when you flashed them with Android. Now if you whipped out that butt ugly yellow joke in a pub, everyone immediately thinks your a few butties short of a picnic no matter what OS its running. You won't even be able to shift these on eBay.

Witness everyone - this is what you let Nokia get wrecked for.

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Facepalm

Re: So, it has come to this

If you worry about what other people think of you because your phone is yellow, then you must be the country's biggest sissy.

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FAIL

Re: So, it has come to this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewbacca_defense

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Anonymous Coward

Wireless charging and compatibility with speakers are two big wins for me.

I swapped my iPhone for a Lumia 800 (SIM-free and used, I too was avoiding the perceived risk of WP7) and in doing so it meant my alarm clock dock was useless and having to attach a charging cable to the phone each night instead of sticking it onto a dock.

Putting the iPhone on the dock was a little fiddly, so just being able to place it on a cushion or charging slab is really useful.

The real dilemma for me is how to get the 920 when it comes out. I bought my iPhone 4 from Apple so paid full price and went on GiffGaff. I don't want to be on a contract with lots of minutes I don't use or have a handset full of operator branded crap.

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Silver badge

I'm deeply cynical about most new technology. But wireless charging looks interesting. Just plonk your phone down when you sit down in the office, at the pub, or on a train, and top up your charge. That's genuinely revolutionary.

The trouble is, if it becomes widespread then every other manufacturer will copy it. So Nokia could do the hard work opening up the market and then quickly lose their advantage.

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> That's genuinely revolutionary.

Inductive charging has been around for decades. The Palm Pre had it in 2009. The HP Touchpad has it.

Kits are available for many phones:

http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/wireless-induction-charger.html

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Anonymous Coward

What hard work?

Palm had the Touchstone, and both Samsung and HTC have had wireless charging. Nothing new here. So what hard work did Nokia do exactly?

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Bronze badge

Re: What hard work?

I imagine he meant, that if Nokia were to make it widespread and get people to request it, then they would've probably had to spend some bit of money making that happen.

The technology might've been in use previously, but it's not something I've heard much about before, and most people probably wont hear much about it, simply because the Lumia happens to have it.

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Anonymous Coward

" if it becomes widespread then every other manufacturer will copy it"

I believe that it's licensed from elsewhere, anyway, so it would hardly be copying (unless you use the Apple sense of the word).

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Anonymous Coward

They did

My Palm Pre 3 has wireless charging which works extremely well. I understand that HP released several thousand before giving up on the phone market. So no, other manufacturers probably won't copy it.

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Gold badge
Facepalm

Re: What hard work?

That's the new "revolutionary", as defined by Apple in relation to shiny.

i.e. Yes, it's been done before, but nobody's hyped the fuck out of it like we have.

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Toothbrush..

Rechargeable toothbrushes are a quick example of inductive charging already in homes for years..

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Silver badge

Re: Toothbrush..

This is a general response to everybody here.

I can't charge my phone on my toothbrush charger. Nor are such chargers widespread: so I can't walk into the pub, have a quick brush after lunch, and then be certain I can top up my toothbrush's charge.

The revolutionary thing would be to make wireless charging ubiquitous; to make it available in the pub, on the train, and in Starbucks. Andrew's article suggest Nokia are busy signing people up: iff they can make that happen, then that would count as a revolution. Dribbling out a product and then abandoning it (a la HP) doesn't count. And my tag "revolutionary" was predicated on them achieving that. (Which I didn't make clear.)

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Apps

I like the look of the camera but am worried about data lock in - how does this phone tie in the Linux for example (which I run exclusively at home)? What killer apps are there going to be (Angry Birds is not one btw).

I realise I'm not the 'core demographic' of 20 somethinga with more money than sense, but I like the flexibility of Android, for all its faults (and yes, I currently use Google for some sync stuff (lock-in!) but am working on moving those out of Google onto my own infrastructure. So there!)

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Re: Apps

"how does this phone tie in the Linux"

Do you really expect a WINDOWS device to play nice with Linux?

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Silver badge

"Nokia has tried to add several differentiators to the new Lumias. Wireless charging is one, bonk-to-play-music is another."

Really? Wireless charging is neat, but it's not exactly exclusive to Nokia. Bonk to play again is neat, but will people really go out and buy new music equipment to take advantage of it? I doubt it. You're right in saying the People Hub was overhyped. A lot of Windows Phone is overhyped; it strikes me as a gimmicky platform desperately trying to be different to compete.

You mention that iPhone owners have invested in the ecosystem and thus won't necessarily be swayed, but similarly Android owners have invested in the Android ecosystem which is a fact you seem to discount. Fine it's easy enough to export your contacts and whatnot from Google, but your paid apps?

Nokia make nice hardware. Windows Mobile is nice enough, just not fully featured and a bit gimmicky. But it's the fact that the main competitors have pre-existing ecosystems that is going to be Nokia's problem selling these phones.

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Meh

nah

if camera quality was that big a deal the first two models of iPhone would never have sold and the PureView808 - which has a truly extraordinary camera - would be flying out the door.

For 99% of the world a run of the mill 8MP camera is enough, more than enough in fact.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: nah

Upvote for not using the horrible mush-mouthed American- "big of a deal", which just sounds grating and awkward :)

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Devices..

Personally I'm waiting for the model with a camera lump. The good signs that the hardware Nokians can still do their thing is encouraging

But where is the Nokia tablet.....?

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I was actually moderately taken with the Lumia (not one of the two new ones, obviously) I tried in some phone shop whilst my girlfriend was buying an Android phone, but the browser didn't reflow text or to put it another way 'was about as much use as a chocolate teapot'. [There may have been some way but some searching on forums gave me the impression you couldn't].

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It's clear what the Lumia market is

US carriers scared of a Google/Apple duopoly.

They should be pointing this out and getting the carriers to push for WP8 for all they're worth.

Unfortunately, the fact that the Lumias launched without carriers, prices and arrival dates makes me think that either the carriers have written off supporting the whole project for fear of offending the big two or are playing hardball over prices and commitments. They're mad: if Nokia collapses and Microsoft retreats to the desktop they'll be forced to pay through the nose for the iPhone 6 and Galaxy Nexus 2.

My comparison here is the Palm Pre. Great version 1 product (OS not too fast, iffy hardware, iffy advertising-but the basics were complete) but Verizon ordered thousands of Verizon-only phones with costly modifications and then decided that Android was a better bet. Palm never really recovered.

I want the Lumias to succeed. They have a great design and some very interesting ideas. But Nokia are now in a death spiral: they should start work on a port of Jelly Bean as a backup now. If they haven't already.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: It's clear what the Lumia market is

Right, because Samsung is the only Android phone maker, and Google charges so much for Android, right?

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WTF?

Re: It's clear what the Lumia market is

The U.S. carriers aren't scared of Google or Android, they are scared of Skype... which is owned by Microsoft now and included in WP8.

Skype may well be one of the greatest own goals in the history of IT.

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Stop

"No other rival can offer such distinctive differentiators"

BZZTTT Wrong...

2011: http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL79B2287613DC67D5&v=P7vxpNDFMm4&feature=player_detailpage

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "No other rival can offer such distinctive differentiators"

And that worked out so well that everyone knows about it.

Oh, they don't? Well.

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Pint

Re: "No other rival can offer such distinctive differentiators"

I'd really like for Nokia to stay alive...

But I'm not going to waste my cash on their stuff to help them do so while Elop is running it...

Please, all the guys shilling for WindPhone8 go buy a bunch of their phones yourselves,

To keep that badly poisoned 3rd eco system alive.

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Silver badge

Problem with MS-phone

When choosing a phone with an exotic operating system, the compatibility with other ecosystems becomes a large issue. Will it sync my emails, calendar, files, play music, ...? Apple is the dominant player and you know that things just work for all those users. Android is touted to be 'open', hence there is inherent expectation of compatibility with all the applications I use elsewhere.

A windows phone is scary in this respect: Based on a decade of experience with Word documents, etc., I expect to be locked-in. Showing off phones in a pub may help, but I would still expect nasty tricks from MS.

I predict failure, unless Nokiasoft can compete on price with low-medium level Android devices.

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Re:I would still expect nasty tricks from MS.

Including extra licensing costs for exchange sync when not using a windows phone.

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IT Angle

Well....

I don't know if the Lumias are going to be enough to give Windows 8 Phone its presence but it would be really nice to have 3 active OS ecosystems to choose from instead of just Apple vs Android. Slightly tempted here - might have a look in February when it's time to renew my contract. By then, hopefully any big snafus will have been ironed out.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Well....

@Thomas 4 downvoter

It never ceases to amaze me that someone's post can be downvoted on el reg for simply expressing fact and opinion. The 2 points Thomas made were a) 3 way competition is better than 2 and b) He's slightly tempted to to take a look at a Lumia.

How brain dead does someone have to be to downvote a) a statement this is obviously correct and b) personal opinion? And no, I am not Thomas 4.

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Bronze badge

Re: Well....

Up/down votes express personal opinion, so why be amazed by them? Feel free to down vote.

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Meh

Re: Well....

I'm still not certain why anyone cares about downvotes. It doesn't hide your post or anything.

Are you so insecure that you really care what some faceless name thinks of your opinion on an internet forum?

I'm tempted to downvote you simply for your banal post but i'm worried it might affect your real life too much.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Well....

"Are you so insecure that you really care what some faceless name thinks of your opinion on an internet forum?"

Not at all. That's why I laughed at yours!

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WTF?

Re: Well....

Don't you mean four? RIM isn't quite dead yet.

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Bronze badge
Thumb Down

Fugly

The problem with the Tiles/Notro/Modern/WTF interface is that it is, in a word, fugly. No matter how good the underlying technology may be, no one wants to haul out their phone, look at the interface, and die a little inside because it's so hideous, which is pretty much my reaction whenever I see the Windows 8 UI.

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Gold badge

Re: Fugly

I'd agree it's certainly not the prettiest out there.

What it does have in its favour is it's the mutt's nuts of UIs on small touch screens. Very less-than-perfect-eyesight and fat finger friendly. You can forgive it a lot in eye-candy for that.

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MIc
Thumb Up

I'm getting one

Love the 900 but I don't know how long I'll be able to hold off on getting the 920.

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Linux

No matter how many killer apps they have...

MS has the habit of yanking the carpet from under the feet of their hardware users without warning. That leaves folks a wee bit tentative when they introduce new gear.

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