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back to article Hold the chips: Apple axes Samsung RAM order for iPhone 5

Apple has cut down its order of memory chips from Samsung, reducing its reliance on its smartphone rival for components, say supply chain sources cited by Reuters. The iPhone 5, widely expected to be announced next week, will feature fewer Samsung components than its predecessors, say the sources. The newswire speculated that …

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Anonymous Coward

Samsung should stop selling Apple the CPUs too and tell them to go and fuck themselves.

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EWI

Ahem

A4 and A5 are Apple-designed ARM derivatives, which Samsung are just sub-contractors for manufacture.

But don't let that get in the way of a good rant, eh?

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Happy

Seriously?

I think Apple already told samsung to go f*ck themselves!

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Stop

Kneejerk...

... or "Jerk", for short.

The Apple A5 and A5X are systems-on-a-chip (SoCs) designed by Apple Inc. and manufactured by Samsung under contract to Apple.

If Samsung do speak as eloquently as you - unlikely, since they're grown ups - then they cannot sell on any "surplus" A5 or A5X cpus:- all they have to show for it is a whole lot of over capacity.

Whether you like it or not, that's how it is.

No doubt there will be hordes of downvotes from those whose comprehension of such matters is sadly lacking, and whose maturity is year to progress beyond pre-adolescence...

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not really.

Do you think ANY company would sign a contract with Samsung if they refused to honor or even negotiate a new contract with an existing customer?

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Anonymous Coward

They're not selling CPUs to them. They are manufacturing a part to a design produced by Apple.

Why would they tell their largest customer to get lost? they would halve their workforce.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Kneejerk...

Also, because the CPUs are manufactured under contract and the quantities and dollar values are very high, it is almost certain the contract stipulates severe penalties should either company fail to meet their obligations. I would not be surprised if Apple is required to buy and Samsung is required to ship certain quantities at regular intervals. It seems both companies are keen to wind down their relationship, but both appear to be managing it responsibly.

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Anonymous Coward

probably, although I'd imagine some inside samsung have pondered about telling apple that they're maybe "struggling to meet demand" and maybe "will miss scheduled delivery by 4 weeks".... Just to screw up apples launch and holiday shipment numbers ;)

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Thumb Down

Samsung doesn't own A5, Apple does

Samsung only provides fabbing. But hey... keep making stupid noise.

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Anonymous Coward

"They're not selling CPUs to them. They are manufacturing a part to a design produced by Apple."

That's a key point that many people miss - most devices using ARM CPU's are not easily interchangeable as the devices are dependent on the add-on parts of the package rather than the ARM CPU that is used in a number of suppliers products.

"Why would they tell their largest customer to get lost? they would halve their workforce."

I'm not sure that either Apple or Samsung would want to part company on the A5 CPU's at the moment. Apple would struggle to find an alternative supplier for the production volume they want at 28/32nm. While I'm sure Samsung could fill the capacity, a quick exit could leave them with idle capacity in a very expensive facility....

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Mushroom

blah blah blah

Samsung should just keep selling the CPUs and tell Apple to go fuck themselves anyway

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Anonymous Coward

Designed by Jim Keller from PA Semi actually. He''s just left to go back to AMD, where he was involved with designing Athlon.

http://www.valuewalk.com/2012/08/amd-hires-apple-inc-aapl-lead-chip-designer-jim-keller/

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Apples-A4-and-A5-chip-designer-Jim-Keller-leaves-for-AMD_id32904

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Anonymous Coward

Juvenile

'Samsung should stop selling Apple the CPUs too and tell them to go and fuck themselves.'

How do you manage to walk with that enormous chip on your shoulder?

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Anonymous Coward

Without the income

Without the income from being an Apple supplier you may find Samsung will have to tighten its belt.

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Holmes

Re: Ahem

"A4 and A5 are Apple-designed ARM derivatives"

Derivatives is the key word. You must remember Apple engineer fuck-all themselves. They simply take something already invented, put it in a glass case and then claim everyone else is copying them.

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Re: Ahem

"A4 and A5 are Apple-designed ARM derivatives"

Derivatives is the key word. You must remember Apple engineer fuck-all themselves. They simply take something already invented, put it in a glass case and then claim everyone else is copying them.

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Some fandroids go to enormous lengths to make themselves look stupid. Yes, they are "derivatives", in the EXACT same sense that ALL the other ARM SoCs used in Android phones whether made by Samsung, HTC, or whoever are. ARM Ltd licenses out the design to lots of people, Apple and Samsung among them.

But here's one fact that should really stick in your craw. It was APPLE, back in the late 80s, that teamed up with Acorn to turn Acorn's RISC CPU into what became the ARM architecture. They designed it specifically to use in the Newton. People who say Apple engineers nothing should read a little history so they know who helped design the first version of the ARM architecture and used it to design one of the first (if not the first) PDA nearly a quarter century ago.

Getting ready for the inevitable downvotes from fandroids who downvote anything that praises Apple or calls out anti-Apple bullshit.

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Re: Without the income

"Without the income from being an Apple supplier you may find Samsung will have to tighten its belt"

They'll have to tighten the belt anyway with that billion they have to pay Apple.

I would indeed tell Apple to find another fab (or as someone else wrote: Go F U!), which they won't find in such short notice causing significant delays on the release o/t iPhone 5 (not to mention current sales o/t iPad/iPhone) and potentially generating more sales o/t Galaxy S 3/Note 2. In which case they might fill up the loss by producing more SoC's for themselves.

I begin to think whether this all isn't some charade to keep prices high for both Apple and Samsung products and to generate free advertising. I mean, apart from Nokia who's struggling at that, none o/t other phone makers make much advertisements to sell their products. In fact Nokia even have to lie about their new products (which questions how good they actually are) according to recent fake clips and fake photos.

I occasionally see some HTC-poster on a bus-stand but I've yet to see a commercial for LG's current flagship phone Optimus 4xHD or any new Sony Xperia's. In fact the most recent LG that I've seen in a well known store is the LG Prada 3 which unfortunately for LG wasn't such a big success. LG's presence in at (Belgian) stores is very thin to say the least.

There's something fishy going on between those 2!

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Re: Ahem

Hmm the first ARM cpu (ARM1) was started in 1983 was finished in 1985 and was used a coprocessor in the BBC. The ARM cpu that apple help create was the ARM6 which came out in 1992. The ARM 610 (a ARM6 derivative )is what apple used in the Newton.

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Re: Ahem

No it weren't Apple engineers who designed that processor. It were the folk(s) at Acorn Computers Ltd. (Stephen Furber and Sophie Wilson) who did.

Apple and VLSI (which was already a partner with Acorn) invested into Acorn to separate the cpu business which became ARM Ltd (about 1990). That way, they could license the technology to anyone independent from Acorn Computers Ltd. If ever something happened to the latter then Apple (or anyone else) would still be able to get cpu's. And unfortunately in 1999 something awfull DID happen to Acorn, while they were on the verge of introducing their new Risc PC II (I blame a conspiracy against them but others would probably have another name for it.)

The original name o/t cpu was "Acorn Risc Machines" after the spin-off it was re-branded as "Advanced Risc Machines".

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Chip on the Shoulder?

One thing that Apple clearly have the patent on

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Unhappy

Re: Juvenile (AC 7/09/12 @18:17)

"How do you manage to walk with that enormous chip on your shoulder?"

He's probably well-balnced:- an enormous chip on both shoulders

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Re: Kneejerk...

Er, I assume the OP is talking about ending any contracts - obviously any already made might as well still be sold to Apple, but Samsung could then stop making any more for them.

Designed by ARM, manufactured by Samsung. Apple just stick a logo on it, and get all the credit from the media.

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Re: Ahem

But that's the thing - it's hilarious how Apple fans continually have to spin things, to make it so that Apple Apple Apple is what we only ever hear about. Yeah, sure we should thank Apple for wanting ARM for the Newton, I'm sure Acorn would never had developed their CPU without Apple, obviously they're too stupid for that(!) Never mind their own RISC PC, or the endless embedded uses of ARM in the 90s, or the billions of phones and smartphones that were sold in the 90s and 2000s, years before johnny-come-lately Apple joined the party.

I'll thank Apple, the day I hear Apple fans thanking all the other companies, be it ARM, or Samsung, Nokia, MS, Intel etc. But I never ever do.

The fact that Samsung etc also use ARM is irrelevant - people don't go on and on falsely crediting Samsung for creating the CPUs.

"Getting ready for the inevitable downvotes from fandroids who downvote anything that praises Apple or calls out anti-Apple bullshit."

I couldn't give a damn about Android, I'm just tired about constant Apple advertising that we get rammed down our throats, day in, day out.

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Re: Without the income

It was a marketing blooper from Nokia (supposedly), but there's plenty of evidence and reports that Nokia make damn good cameras in their phones.

I do agree it's sad the way that some companies get tonnes of free advertising from the media, whilst most get none, even if they sell far more. And it's Apple who benefit by far - Samsung have only got coverage after they've become immensely successful (the number one company - though Nokia got ignored when they were number one), whilst Apple got wall-to-wall hype about the Iphone from before it was even released, even though it's never been the number one platform, or they the number one company. Same with Ipads - ridiculous hype even before it was *announced*. It only sells better because most people aren't even aware of alternatives - including from Samsung, whose tablets are also ignored by the media.

Sad. Every other advert seems to have a "Get this on your eyyyyephone", despite it's appalling 16% share, compared to Android's near 70% (with Symbian being number one before Android).

I saw a hilarious article from the Telegraph about the Lumia 920 being Nokia's last chance to enter the market. WTF? A tech journalist so dumb, he wasn't aren't aware Nokia were the leader in phone/smartphones for years until 2011, and still are number two? The question now is more how they will do with WP. Might as well say that Windows 8 is MS's last chance to enter the operating system market.

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Re: Ahem

Thank god someone finally pointed this out.

Its really funny how if you dislike Apple you're automatically into Android, as if its some kind of zero sum game, Im sure google and apple wish it was but it isnt. And Microsoft barely figures into it either.

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Re: Juvenile

Really, downvotes for that very witty remark?

AC, if you can repeat that, please register to The Register ;-)

I pity the future of certain commenters here...

And please notice I didn't use regtards, freetards, commentards, m$, snapple, flamsung or any of that 'creative' name-calling, either. Or complain about Lewis, Andrew, 'shills', etc.

Make an effort, instead of using four-letter words to show you don't agree.

And if you still don't agree, vote with your mouse. As in - don't click any links, and don't read these articles anymore.

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Re: Ahem

@DougS

Well after sanctimoniously lecturing me with your comical 'facts' you now look like a giant bellend. Well done.

I'm also indifferent to android btw

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Re: Ahem

Well after sanctimoniously lecturing me with your comical 'facts' you now look like a giant bellend. Well done.

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Because other people corrected me and you choose to agree with them it makes me look like a giant bellend? (that's a new one on me, not sure if I should be insulted or laugh at you typoing an insult...) Here are a couple links that say pretty much what I did:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture#Apple.2C_DEC.2C_Intel.2C_Marvell:_ARM6.2C_StrongARM.2C_XScale

http://www.ot1.com/arm/armchap1.html#advanced

I said Apple worked with Acorn (sorry forgot about VLSI) to design a new version of ARM, which was the first one suited for embedded use rather than being used in the Acorn PCs. Wikipedia says that Apple started working with Acorn in the late 80s, the other article says Apple didn't start working with them until 1990, after they'd already started work on a lower power version suitable for embedded use. So maybe I was somewhat wrong, and maybe not, depending on which source is correct.

Regardless of the exact timeline of events, the reason I brought it up is that it is lost on most people today that Apple actually has more history with ARM than anyone selling smartphones or tablets today, and they not only design their own ARM SoCs today, they were involved with designing ARM cores over two decades ago.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Juvenile (AC 7/09/12 @18:17)

If he's got a chip on both shoulders he's probably French

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Ahem

The Guardian is even worse. It's no longer a newspaper. It's a blogpaper. The only news stories in it are either about Stephen Lawrence or phone hacking. The rest is just cookery or fagging it up about the new iPhone.

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Anonymous Coward

RE: Designed by Jim Keller...

I may be missing something that you are trying to say, but you do realise that P.A. Semi are owned and have been owned by since April 2008.

"AMD wants a piece of Apple Inc. (NASDAQ:AAPL) and that’s why they recently hired Jim Keller, the former lead from Apple’s chip design team." First line of first link.

"Jim Keller, who joined Apple when it acquired P.A. Semi" First line of second link.

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Re: Ahem

"But here's one fact that should really stick in your craw. It was APPLE, back in the late 80s, that teamed up with Acorn to turn Acorn's RISC CPU into what became the ARM architecture. They designed it specifically to use in the Newton. People who say Apple engineers nothing should read a little history so they know who helped design the first version of the ARM architecture and used it to design one of the first (if not the first) PDA nearly a quarter century ago."

Leave it up to a full time Kool-aid drinker to think Apple invented everything. I bet that includes touch screens and square icons too right?

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@DougS: Re: Ahem

I wasn't there, but my recollection as a local is that Apple and VLSI provided some funding, but there was no design input. And the ARM architecture certainly predates Apple's involvement by several years.

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@DougS: Re: Ahem

Regardless of the exact timeline of events, the reason I brought it up is that it is lost on most people today that Apple actually has more history with ARM than anyone selling smartphones or tablets today, and they not only design their own ARM SoCs today, they were involved with designing ARM cores over two decades ago.

ARM has a long history with phone and "smartphone" vendors, staring with VLSI and Ericsson 20 years ago. Nothing to do with Apple, who were very late into the phone business. And you still haven't demonstrated that Apple had any design input into ARM cores (it's certainly possible, but details please). And there must be literally dozens of companies who design SoCs with ARM cores, and who have source licences, and so who also "design ARM cores".

As a historical side note, I did some design work for a company in 1990 that was developing a hand-writing recognition tablet with an ARM variant. Nothing to do with Newton, Apple, or anyone else.

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Anonymous Coward

Apple should announce that due to Apple cutting purchases they will not after all invest in the plant in Texus, they should also hint that Apple are risking US jobs with its attacks on Samsung etc....

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Facepalm

"Apple should announce that due to Apple cutting purchases they will not after all invest..."

Dentopedology of the keyboard...

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Anonymous Coward

Why is it Apple's responsibility if Samsung chooses to not create jobs in Texas? Samsung decides where and when to build new plants, not Apple, so Samsung would be the one risking US job growth.

By the way, there is a lot of good chip-design talent in the Houston-Dallas area, which is probably why it makes good business sense for Samsung to open a facility there, whether or not Apple is a customer.

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WTF?

Re: Dentopedology of the keyboard...

What's that, the study of childrens' teeth?

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Bronze badge

The Samsung Fab in question is in Austin, which is sort of close to Dallas, but its still a different area.

Its Central Texas and therefore geographically in between the big TI fabs and Intel's company town/giant fab complex in Central New Mexico, so its close enough to leverage talent coming from from both TI (which is who I'm assuming you're referring to in regard to East Texas/Dallas, correct me if I'm wrong) and Intel.

Makes good sense to me to build there, though I probably would have put it in Amarillo myself because cost of living's lower as are land prices and there's a pretty significant technical workforce in the Amarillo area at the Pantex plant.

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Tumbleweed Moment

Yes I can imagine the meetings with Samsung representatives could be a little awkward..

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Tumbleweed Moment

Not really, as the Galaxy S3 is outselling the 4s by quite some margin...

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Paris Hilton

Re: Tumbleweed Moment

Give those figures until 12th September to re-establish themselves...

Paris Hilton because she too will buy an iPhone 5

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Re: Tumbleweed Moment

Even after sep12 they will outsell the 4s ... it's the 5s they have to worry about :)

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Tumbleweed Moment

Yes you say that in the 2 weeks before the new iPhone is announced. Why not look at Galaxy sales in the month after Apple get them banned.

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Re: Tumbleweed Moment

Androids generally were selling 4 units to every single Apple one and that was some time ago. The margin is likely to increase as people mostly want the latest products not from someone always playing catchup. Apple were essentially the last people to get into the mobile phone business and naturally benefitted greatly from all the development done by others before them. Has everyone forgotten that they had to pay Nokia for wrongly using no less than 12 Nokia patents! Some would say it would be hard to imagine a less ethical company.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Tumbleweed Moment

Think Samsung?? They were the ones doing the copying and they are just as happy to lawyer up.

All those Android units - it's unsurprising considering the number of manufacturers and 'price' - for most people they get one as an upgrade from a candy bar - so it's like calling a Nokia running S40 a 'smart phone'. I bet a huge number of those 'volume' Android users use it 'just' as a phone - i.e. not for much if any email or web browsing and certainly few apps (probably Angry Birds free edition).

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Re: Tumbleweed Moment

Apple were essentially the last people to get into the mobile phone business and naturally benefitted greatly from all the development done by others before them

So before the iPhone came out, mobiles were already heading the smartphone/touch interface way ?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Tumbleweed Moment

'So before the iPhone came out, mobiles were already heading the smartphone/touch interface way ?'

Yes they were, go and educate yourself with a bit of history instead of relying on what Apples marketing drones tell you.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Tumbleweed Moment

LG Prada, and any number of HTC units.

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